Soft Paint Depression Spiral...HELP!!!!

E

EJS

New member
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Have a black '11 MDX with repainted panels onthe passenger side, but didn't realize it when I bought it. Car was in reallybad shape and looked like someone had taken the automatic car wash broom andraked it over the entire car. Being WAY off the OCD spectrum I made thedecision to DA the car myself so I'd have that knowledge in the future. I had buffedboats with a Makita rotary and even wetsanded gelcoat from 400 up to 3000, butI had never had the courage to tackle a car with clearcoat. Since this car hashad a rough life I figured it would be fun to experiment. I used a Griot's DAwith Meguiar's 105 & 205. I noticed a haziness on some panels and thenlearned about DA haze on soft paint. I then learned about dropping from MFfinishing pads to foam. Then I learned about 302(16) designed specifically forDA haze removal. Worked great until the first car wash when the hazereappeared. DA'd again with 302, thinking that I didn't get the haze out andthe fillers in the wax were disguising it, but got the same result. Consultedwith my local Mirror Glaze guy of 40 yrs and he suggested re-doing the 205step, which only turned the black more dull. After working with my patientMirror Glaze guy he said my problem was beyond his ability. He sent me to adetailing pro in our area with 30 yrs of experience. He DA'd my door with 300and then 301. Little concerned that 301 said "finish wax", but heensured me that it wasn't temporary. Washed the car and the haze on that doorcame back. The fillers in the wax must have temporarily hidden the haze.Finally realizing which panels had been repainted, I reached out to MikePhillips at Autogeek. He quickly tipped me off to Pinnacle products. Tried thatand it worked GREAT to remove every last little sign of tool marks on the softpaint both in sunlight and under CFL. Sealed everything with Meguiar’s #26 anddrove the car lightly for a week. At the end of the week it was covered in dustso I hosed it down to remove anything loose. No dirt or bird poop, literallyjust dust. Got out my microfiber mitt and bucket and soaped the car gently inthe shade, making sure to keep each panel wet during the process. I dried onepanel and about fell on the ground when I saw what looked like haze again. Ipulled the car in the garage and turned on the CFL only to find it wasn't DAhaze, but thousands of hairline scratches going in the same direction I soaped.The obvious answer would be that the mitt was dirty or that the bucket haddebris in it, but both were practically brand new. I mist & wipe theinterior of the bucket with an MF before every use. The mitt is blown out witha hose constantly during the wash process and wrung out about 6 times andcarefully hung out to dry in a cabinet. After $150 for the DA, and about $50per bottle (105, 205, 302, 301 & Pinnacle), 5 MF and foam pads, two 30packs of MF towels, 5 bottles of Mist & Wipe and 3 weeks of work...I'M AT ATOTAL LOSS! I know the repaint was bad because I found several drips, rolls andinconsistent patches of metallic flakes, but could it be SO soft that I can'teven wash the car without scratching it?
 
Could you be a little more specific about the type/brand of MF mitt you were using to wash, what soap (type/brand) and what you used for a drying towel?

Also, most of us machine wash our wash media between car wash sessions, which it seems you aren't doing. Also, do you use that same mitt to wipe any wheels, lower body areas, wheel well lips?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Could you be a little more specific about the type/brand of MF mitt you were using to wash, what soap (type/brand) and what you used for a drying towel?

Also, most of us machine wash our wash media between car wash sessions, which it seems you aren't doing. Also, do you use that same mitt to wipe any wheels, lower body areas, wheel well lips?
Click to expand...

All good questions.

Your writing will drive Mike P nuts (spacing).

Two 30 packs of MF towels could be one of your problems.
 
EJS said:
Have a black '11 MDX with repainted panels onthe passenger side, but didn't realize it when I bought it. Car was in reallybad shape and looked like someone had taken the automatic car wash broom andraked it over the entire car. Being WAY off the OCD spectrum I made thedecision to DA the car myself so I'd have that knowledge in the future. I had buffedboats with a Makita rotary and even wetsanded gelcoat from 400 up to 3000, butI had never had the courage to tackle a car with clearcoat. Since this car hashad a rough life I figured it would be fun to experiment. I used a Griot's DAwith Meguiar's 105 & 205. I noticed a haziness on some panels and thenlearned about DA haze on soft paint. I then learned about dropping from MFfinishing pads to foam. Then I learned about 302(16) designed specifically forDA haze removal. Worked great until the first car wash when the hazereappeared. DA'd again with 302, thinking that I didn't get the haze out andthe fillers in the wax were disguising it, but got the same result. Consultedwith my local Mirror Glaze guy of 40 yrs and he suggested re-doing the 205step, which only turned the black more dull. After working with my patientMirror Glaze guy he said my problem was beyond his ability. He sent me to adetailing pro in our area with 30 yrs of experience. He DA'd my door with 300and then 301. Little concerned that 301 said "finish wax", but heensured me that it wasn't temporary. Washed the car and the haze on that doorcame back. The fillers in the wax must have temporarily hidden the haze.Finally realizing which panels had been repainted, I reached out to MikePhillips at Autogeek. He quickly tipped me off to Pinnacle products. Tried thatand it worked GREAT to remove every last little sign of tool marks on the softpaint both in sunlight and under CFL. Sealed everything with Meguiar’s #26 anddrove the car lightly for a week. At the end of the week it was covered in dustso I hosed it down to remove anything loose. No dirt or bird poop, literallyjust dust. Got out my microfiber mitt and bucket and soaped the car gently inthe shade, making sure to keep each panel wet during the process. I dried onepanel and about fell on the ground when I saw what looked like haze again. Ipulled the car in the garage and turned on the CFL only to find it wasn't DAhaze, but thousands of hairline scratches going in the same direction I soaped.The obvious answer would be that the mitt was dirty or that the bucket haddebris in it, but both were practically brand new. I mist & wipe theinterior of the bucket with an MF before every use. The mitt is blown out witha hose constantly during the wash process and wrung out about 6 times andcarefully hung out to dry in a cabinet. After $150 for the DA, and about $50per bottle (105, 205, 302, 301 & Pinnacle), 5 MF and foam pads, two 30packs of MF towels, 5 bottles of Mist & Wipe and 3 weeks of work...I'M AT ATOTAL LOSS! I know the repaint was bad because I found several drips, rolls andinconsistent patches of metallic flakes, but could it be SO soft that I can'teven wash the car without scratching it?
Click to expand...

Give CarPro Essence a try, with an MF pad. Afterwards, a coating like Wolfgang Uber Ceramic or Optimim Gloss Coat.

The Essence will work well on soft, sticky paint. And wipe off should be very easy, and can be further aided by wiping off with a very soft MF towel that's been soaking in hot water. The coating should help reduce marring from towels and washing.
Unfortunately, repainted panels are typically a bit more difficult to work with. Be persistent, you'll get this sorted.
 
Are the problems only on the repainted panels? If so are you positive the marks are not from sanding marks under the clear?
 
The soap is Meguiar's Deep Crystal Car Wash. It says "preserves wax protection", so I assumed it wasn't super aggressive. The mitt was from Walmart. I thought it was MF, but looking online it may be sythentic wool like the attached. Hard to say as I rip all tags off.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Chenille-Wash-Mitt-White/16817497

I NEVER touch wheels or the bottom of the bumpers with the paint mitt. In fact that day I only soaped the hood and then started on the top side panels when I saw the issue on the back quarter panel. I grabbed a big microfiber (which is machine washed on cold) to dry the section and realized i had just created the scratches with the mitt. I haven't machine washed the mitt. I usually hose it out under pressure several times during the wash to keep from spreading any debris. Then at the end of the wash I blow the mitt out several times with the hose on high, wringing it out as i go until no soap appears.
 
Deep Crystal isn't exactly a car wash that a lot of members use. It's the lower end of the Meguiar's washes. I don't know that's the problem, and the wash mitt "looks" pretty soft, it doesn't really look like that one you linked. Are you drying with bulk microfibers? Those 30-pack towels usually aren't the greatest and a lot of members would rule those as something that "never touches paint" and would be considered throwaway towels for wheels or engine compartments.

It's really hard to diagnose from the other side of a computer screen, but the soap you're using, the wash media, and the drying media are generally accepted here to be critical to successful mar-free washing (and technique of course). All of the products you're using wouldn't be the first choice for most members...and might be the last choice.
 
Can you speak to the difference of the Costco MF's compared to a pro brand? They seem to perform really well over the past 10 yrs that I've used them. I've worked both cars and boats with them and under my CFL work light I've never seen even the slightest sign them causing damage. So if they aren't causing damage what would the difference be?
 
Mike lambert said:
Are the problems only on the repainted panels? If so are you positive the marks are not from sanding marks under the clear?
Click to expand...

The issue is only on the repainted panels. I'm positive the marks aren't under the clear as I was able to remove every flaw with the Pinnacle product and it looking amazing under natural light and CFL. The light scratches only appeared immediately after i used the foam mitt. And the marks only appeared on the repainted panels. The hood and other parts of the car still look flawless under natural and CFL. So it looks like I'm clearly able to clean a factory painted car, but I'm definitely losing the battle on the repainted surfaces.
 
Are you sure they're not causing the damage in this instance?

For one thing, those towels tend to hold on to debris more strongly, but most towels grab stuff. If your paint is soft on this vehicle it may be that materials/techniques that have worked for you in the past aren't going to work now.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Deep Crystal isn't exactly a car wash that a lot of members use. It's the lower end of the Meguiar's washes. I don't know that's the problem, and the wash mitt "looks" pretty soft, it doesn't really look like that one you linked. Are you drying with bulk microfibers? Those 30-pack towels usually aren't the greatest and a lot of members would rule those as something that "never touches paint" and would be considered throwaway towels for wheels or engine compartments.

It's really hard to diagnose from the other side of a computer screen, but the soap you're using, the wash media, and the drying media are generally accepted here to be critical to successful mar-free washing (and technique of course). All of the products you're using wouldn't be the first choice for most members...and might be the last choice.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I was trying to turn my OCD off a bit to keep my wife from killing me. Figured I didn't need high tech soap from Germany ;) But maybe I need to put more thought into the purchase of the back end items.

Just to help me in the future, let's do a hypothetical scenario that mirrors mine. The car is detailed, sealed and spotless. You drive a 3 mile radius around your house at speeds below 40. The cars gets covered in dust from trees or construction or whatever. No bird poop, mud or bugs, JUST a layer of dust/dirt. You hose the car down and at some point doesn't a soapy mitt have to come in contact with the layer of dust/dirt in order to remove it? Or is there a better way to pre-wash a without touching paint before you go to the soapy mitt step?
 
A lot of people pressure wash the dirt off before they touch the paint with anything. Your soft paint may be from a repaint, but there are members/pros who have struggled with soft factory paint, like the infamous BMW Jet Black, and these cars require serious deviation from what would be considered "normal" practice here.
 
So in the past I always loved driving the car to a quarter car wash and spraying it down myself, and then driving home to do another wash in the driveway. But that still requires you to either soap it with a mitt or dry it off at the car wash. As kids came along i learned that i didn't have 12 hrs to detail a car anymore, so I started pre-washing at laser touchless car washes. Drive in and arms go around the car spraying water and soap without ANYTHING touching the car, but I know it's not a perfect solution. I had to laugh when THIS was my last experience...
 
Also I'm fairly confident that this was a bad repaint perhaps done by a cheap body shop prior to flipping a car. The back quarter has spot that looks like they loaded the gun and it was clogged and then shot out a wad of metallic all in one location. Never sprayed a car before, but that's what I like to believe happened. Also there are patches on the back panel that has metallic that doesn't match the consistency of the doors. Then there is a massive run mark on the pillar. It wreaks of a hack job. So I'm wondering if there is a massive difference in paint softness tied to a poor repair vs a good one. I know the factory uses massive heat to cure the paint making it much harder than body shop paint, but are some shops perhaps using less heat than others? To where a poor repair is so soft that it's almost impossible to clean?
 
It's not just the heat cure (these are catalyzed paints), although that could be a partial factor, it's the paint, it's the catalyst, it's the ratio, it's the humidity, it's the temperature...all these things are precisely controlled in the manufacturer paint shop...not so much in a body shop.
 
I was in the repaint business for 9 years. Every once in a while, a panel would buff fine but as it cooled the scratches would return. The softer clear from the repaint, would settle into the scratches in the basecoat. (bad prep). Fresh polish and it was great, 15 minutes later, not so good. Eventually and carefully it usually could be removed, but not always. Hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top