Dirty Voltage

UncleDavy

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This is a question for you mobile detailers who use a portable generator as a power source. Have you ever had an issue with dirty voltage affecting your equipment like polishers or water pumps? Voltage surges can breakdown the insulation in motor windings causing premature failures. I was reading a lot of posts about Rupes and Flex polishers failing after a short time and I was wondering if dirty voltage could be a cause. If so, then a power line conditioner could help.
 
Using an inferior quality extension cord (re: to thin of gauge) can also wreak havoc on power tools in the long run.
 
Dirty voltage, which is typically a high amount of THD, is bad for electronics like computers, but shouldn't have any adverse effects on motors.
 
Dirty voltage, which is typically a high amount of THD, is bad for electronics like computers, but shouldn't have any adverse effects on motors.

You are absolutely right about the adverse affects on electronics Sudsy, but total harmonic distortion and over voltage can wreak havoc on electric motors and electrical equipment like motor starters. I sell motors and gearboxes in industrial applications and I call on a lot of power plants. Believe it or not, power plants have the worst electrical service feeding their own equipment. They are constantly burning out 3 phase motors and motor starters and VFDs. THD and over voltage can cause excessive heat which is a stress on electrical components, especially insulation on motor windings. I have seen these types of failures in industrial applications on larger motors (10 hp up to 500 hp). I know that water pumps and small polisher motors are no where near that scale but I was wondering if it could cause the same problems.
 
When I was at one of my re-certification classes required by Generac, I asked a similar question and the answer was don't use it to power anything that costs more than the generator.
 
first define what you mean (or think) dirty voltage is,
for the scenario you describe (mobile detailing) and the sub $1000 generator (<5000 watt) i'd expect one to have basically no to your question it typically would not hurt an electric motor (like u say break down insulation).
on one hand if one knew nothing and generator put out less than 100 volts and less than 50 hertz because it ran less than 3600 rpm then because of the lower voltage current draw would be higher in the electric motor and that would cause extra heat. But, my 15 year old porter cable i use buffing and also sanded bottom of my boat to bottom paint- just had to pull apart and regrease gear case and clean out; I have beat the hell out of that 7424 to where plastic case is so hot cannot hold on to it bare hand have to stop working and let cool down, motor winding magnet wire is tougher than you think that insulation does not "break down".

with whatever speed control electronics they may use on a given tool I would expect that to fail from using a "poor" electrical power supply not any wire insulation. And it could just be a poor batch of electronic equipment (speed control device) they sourced from wherever in Asia to make the buffer and I would bet $1 it is that and it's just coincidental that the tool failed while using generator power.
 
oh and the electric motors in the buffer tools (or sawzall, jig saw) that are AC powered (115v ac 50-60hz) are all brushed AC motors, very simple, and the way the speed is controlled on them i believe is no different than a non-led lamp dimmer where the voltage sine wave is chopped off either on leading edge or trailing edge... which depending on what the definition of dirty voltage is... the speed control dial or variable trigger is doing just that making dirty voltage to alter the speed of the motor... you more or less cannot hurt them with "dirty voltage" unless you really really try i.e. plug it into 240v somehow instead of 120v.
 
Used to build electric motors and generators for coal mine applications. Minimum voltage application is 600 v DC to motors, 600 DC to generators, and 3500 v ac to synchronous motors. Incoming to the dragline or shovel is 25000 v ac. The varnish they use in the windings and armature is crazy thick and crazy stout. Unless there is a pinhole in it a thin layer...couple mils will hold up to well over the 600v. They take and submerge the components in a vat of varnish and it is then placed into a vacuum for 12hrs to make sure it penetrates everywhere. It then has to go through testing before any could even be installed into a frame. Like the previous fella said, youd be hard pressed to kill one with dirty voltage...it would be more like he said, somehow get 240 to it or get it wet and have voltage applied

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Let me guess...Siemens?

Siemens is the enemy. I work for Sumitomo and although we are a gear company, we do make our own motors for our integral gearmotors. We use Toshiba, Baldor, WEG and Marathon for our c faced motors.
 
Thanks for the responses Ron and Minerigger. I am an ME and not an EE and I like to hear your opinions. It was just a theory I had since I was reading about premature Rupes and Flex failures.
 
Honestly I think its luck of the draw. It's like the whole Ford vs Chevy vs dodge arguement. There is no one better than the other. They all have issues and all have failures. Same goes for rupes, flex, griots

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Harmonics come from loads that are high frequency switching and are higher power (proportional to the supply). Running a few DA's (i.e. motors) is not going to lead to much harmonic distortion especially in relation to a the supply. I don't think DA's consume enough power proportional to your average portable generator to be concerned about any of this.

If one was to power a whole bunch of LED and Flourescent lighting, computers, etc... off that generator along with the DA, then you would probably see some effects on the power quality which could lead to a shortened life for the DA. However, I don't think this is happening in typical practice.
 
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