Fully Detailed Vehicle But Defects Remain...Need Advice

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Detail4Fun

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Hi All,

I've been detailing my vehicles (plus some friends and family) for many years. Perhaps the last five years or so I've taken a serious approach to detailing exterior/interior with a Porter Cable DA but because I only do it 2-3x per year I would still classify myself as novice. Last fall my wife got an excellent used 2019 Ford Escape with 10,000 miles. It is a titanium edition and fully loaded with every option. We normally don't buy used but it is certified by Ford (upgraded warranty) and the price was amazing. However, we did have hesitation because the dealer disclosed that the vehicle was a rental car out of Florida. Immediately Florida man came to mind and beating the hell out of the vehicle lol. Anyways, the paint looked fine (as did rest of the vehicle) and unfortunately each time we visited the vehicle it was raining...so I didn't get to examine the paint under perfect conditions.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and I'm starting to prepare to do a full interior and exterior detail on the vehicle since the weather is in the 70's now. I see swirls and such and decide I will try a more radical approach (I've never used the yellow pad) then what I am used to doing. I decided to use Meguiars Mirror Glaze #2 Fine Cut Cleaner with a yellow Lake County pad. When I did the detail (took 7 hours from top to bottom) everything looked exceptional. Then I took it in the sunlight and everything still looked exceptional except two areas. A few areas of the roof and majority of the hood looked okay. Still nice to 90% of people but I could see the defects. I can only see the defects when looking at an angle in the light. Anyways, below are the steps I performed and a sample picture of the upper hood defects that remain. My next question is how should I tackle these defects next full detail?

1. Wash with foam gun
2. Iron-X and wash
3. Meguirs clay bar
4. Wash with foam gun
5. Yellow pad with Meguirs #2 Fine Cut Cleaner on hood and roof. The rest of the vehicle was white pad with Meguirs #2.
6. Entire vehicle with white pad andMeguiars Mirror Glaze #9 Swirl Remover 2.0.
7. Entire vehicle with white pad and Meguiars Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze.
8. Entire vehicle with Klasse sealant (two coats)
9. Entire vehicle with Chemical Guys Butter Wax (one coat)
 
I'm not familiar with the products you used... Maybe they were simply not aggressive enough to achieve the correction level you desire, or you just need to get more aggressive with your process, i.e., more passes, more pressure, etc.

Typically if the product/pad combination you are using isn't aggressive enough, you can compensate (to some extent) by doing additional passes. It will take longer, but you can usually reach the desired result (within reason).

In any case, looking at the picture you attached, you need to get more aggressive... Either with pad and product, or with your process, and possibly all.

Your situation is also a great testimonial for doing a test spot to dial-in your process before proceeding with the entire car. If you would have done that first, then the seven hours you just spent could have been used more efficiently.
 
Look into your procedure also. I have a few friends that after I saw how they used a polisher, I corrected them and had them move the polisher much slower, they were using it like they use a paintbrush back-and-forth fairly quickly and that doesn’t give the products or the pad time to work. So count to four seconds when you’re moving across in a 2 x 2 section give everything time to work.
 
:whs::iagree: with 2black1s and glen e
 
What size are your pads? Mike recommends using a 5" backing plate and pads with the PC.
 
Not knowing your technique I’d say the chemicals you used aren’t helping. Also next time do a test spot, better to see these blemishes in a 2’x2’ area right away instead of seein them 7 hours later. Since the 2 problem areas are the roof and hood which the sun hits at a different angle than the sides I’d bet the sides will also look the same if the light hits it
 
And be careful as I bought a used car with several bird etchings and I wasn’t able to get them out. Well, I was able to get the ones out on the trunk lid but I was into the color layer afterwards. I knew that was a possibility which is why I used the trunk lid that is harder to see normally and if it gets worse I’ll get it repainted. Note, I used wet sandpaper to get them out as I had exhausted all other normal polishing and compounding steps. So the major etching above my passenger side rear door and on my hood will stay as they can’t be removed, which is a possibility for you. Sometimes the fix can be worse than the initial flaw.
 
One other thing to check on your approach - are you only using one of each color pad to do the whole car for each step?
 
Lots of helpful info here. I will say that what you used basically just removed the road film. If you want to get rid of the swirls and marring I’d recommend the Meg’s MF cutting discs with D300 for your Porter Cable to remove the defects. Then get Meg’s M210 or Meg’s Ultimate Polish to use with your yellow polishing pads to clear the have left from the compounding.
 
fly07sti said:
Lots of helpful info here. I will say that what you used basically just removed the road film. If you want to get rid of the swirls and marring I’d recommend the Meg’s MF cutting discs with D300 for your Porter Cable to remove the defects. Then get Meg’s M210 or Meg’s Ultimate Polish to use with your yellow polishing pads to clear the have left from the compounding.
Click to expand...

Working for a Ford dealer, and dealing with the local body shop for dings/dents in newer models, the guys at the body shop have repeatedly told me that Ford clear coat has been on the harder side for quite a few years now.

Any finishing polish (especially with a PC) isn't likely to do much for removing swirls.

As already mentioned above, use a 5" backing plate. And use thinner 5.5" pads with a more aggressive product. (Griot's Fast Correcting Cream is a great one).

And keep the PC cranked up to "Ludicrous Speed". (Speed 6). ;)
 
I wouldn't use number 7 under Klasse. Klasse would probably work better on bare paint.
 
2black1s said:
I'm not familiar with the products you used... Maybe they were simply not aggressive enough to achieve the correction level you desire, or you just need to get more aggressive with your process, i.e., more passes, more pressure, etc.

Typically if the product/pad combination you are using isn't aggressive enough, you can compensate (to some extent) by doing additional passes. It will take longer, but you can usually reach the desired result (within reason).

In any case, looking at the picture you attached, you need to get more aggressive... Either with pad and product, or with your process, and possibly all.

Your situation is also a great testimonial for doing a test spot to dial-in your process before proceeding with the entire car. If you would have done that first, then the seven hours you just spent could have been used more efficiently.
Click to expand...

Yeah I felt pretty defeated when the car looked amazing in the garage (i.e. no swirls anymore) and in the sun I can still see them in certain spots.
 
glen e said:
Look into your procedure also. I have a few friends that after I saw how they used a polisher, I corrected them and had them move the polisher much slower, they were using it like they use a paintbrush back-and-forth fairly quickly and that doesn’t give the products or the pad time to work. So count to four seconds when you’re moving across in a 2 x 2 section give everything time to work.
Click to expand...

I probably move too fast with the buffer. I always get worried that if I move too slowly that I will burn/damage the paint.
 
fly07sti said:
Lots of helpful info here. I will say that what you used basically just removed the road film. If you want to get rid of the swirls and marring I’d recommend the Meg’s MF cutting discs with D300 for your Porter Cable to remove the defects. Then get Meg’s M210 or Meg’s Ultimate Polish to use with your yellow polishing pads to clear the have left from the compounding.
Click to expand...

I'll look into the cutting discs and polishes for next time.
 
The products you used are not going to touch that damage you are trying to correct and the parts that do look good are probably just filled and will reappear once the protection is gone.

Use the same pads you're using but use one of these.....
Menzerna 400
Sonax Cutmax
Carpro Ultracut (my vote)

That clear is definitely on the hard side and those compounds will get rid of that damage but also finish down very nice on that hard clear
 
Whatever pads you get, I would definitely up the quantity of how many you're using. Standard practice is usually 1 pad per panel (hood would count as 2).

By continuing to use a pad for panel after panel, it's loading up with product and spent clear coat as well as any other debris you may have picked up. A super loaded pad won't work as efficiently as a clean fresh pad, and it's also really hard on the pad. When I started off, I didn't realize the importance of multiple pads either.

Glen E had a great comment on slowing down your movement. You don't need to worry about burning your paint with a PC style machine unless you go really crazy (even then, I'm not sure how crazy that would have to be). Make sure your pad or backing plate is marked so you can make sure it's continuing to rotate - if the backing plate's not spinning, you're not correcting. Like Paul mentioned, on a PC it's not unheard of to need to run them at speed 6 to maintain rotation. Just check in on your pad and the paint from time to time and make sure they're not getting hot (Overworked pads get hot in the center and can dimple in extreme cases).

I'm also with Paul for the Griot's Fast Correcting Cream recommendation. Really user friendly, and on hard paint I wouldn't be surprised if it finished down well enough you wouldn't need to chase it with a polish before applying your LSP (though no one here would begrudge you if you did. :D ).

2black1s also called it on the importance of a test spot - work out your process on a small area so you can work smarter across the whole car, not harder. :props:
 
Some great advice so far.

Another important element of correction is inspect that section just worked under discerning light. I don't move on til that section is fully corrected.

And when i encounter a section that doesn't respond like my test spot i have to adjust. I then go back to what my test spot yielded for all remaining sections where it works.
 
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