Care car research

Hi guys. Wow, it's been a while since I was last here(2015).

Just want to introduce myself a bit. A couple of years ago I spent a little bit of money(around 1K) in the hopes of being an amateur detailer doing detailing for people here and there. Long story short, that never went anywhere because I was lazy. Lol. However, I did take away some things. I know how to clean my car a bit better than your average Joe, lol. It's been so long I don't even remember having an Infiniti as my avatar lol. My how my taste has changed.

It's 2021, I'm 32, just starting community college(I got addicted to video games.) Now I find myself digging back into what I've learned in the hopes of maybe making money from detailing just in case everything else goes wrong. I made a promise to myself to never do any hard labor. I hope you guys don't take offense. It's just not for everyone.

The point of me being here is that I want to contribute something to the car care world. I like cars. Nothing crazy though. I change my own oil, have my dream cars, and hand wash my car. Just average Joe stuff. Again, I want to contribute to the detailing world. I want to apply some of the things that I've learned in higher education so far. Which btw, a lot of people don't take advantage of. I see can the difference being 32 and most students being in their 20's.

I want to use some of my limited scientific knowledge to test out products and answer some of the most common, basic questions we all have at some point in time. For example, does ONR really prevent scratches compared to traditional car soap? Does wax really make paint last longer? Just stuff like that. The reason why I want to do this may or may not be obvious, it's to dispel myths and to focus in on truths. In my last job, a nail technician(salon), there was simply too much opinions being passed around as fact. This is really bad for the industry.

Anywho, here's some experiments I have in mind over the next few weeks(ordering the parts off amazon):

- sponge vs microfiber washing, which medium inflicts the least amount of micro scratches???????
- contact angles of waxes, ceramics, sprays etc. (higher is better)
- ONR testing to see if it works as advertised. That is, less scratches vs traditional soap.
- Dawn dish soap is the best interior APC(because it cleans dirt/oils and kills bacteria really well).

That's all I can think of for now.

BudgetPlan1 said:

An interesting read re: contact angle & sliding angles: Don't buy a ceramic coating unless you know this

Perhaps, with regards to self-cleaning effects, it's kinda like Horsepower & Torque. HP (contact angle) is for show, TQ (sliding angle) is for 'go'!

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I don't buy the sliding angle argument that Dr Beasleys has taken. You can change the surface of a surface to bead water, but you can't change the surface's angle(imo). He needs to prove it.

But I will also test for "sliding angle"(if possible) once I gather all the materials.

Rsurfer said:

Not true..some kid just won a million bucks playing a video tournament.

Top Games Awarding Prize Money
#1. $276,364,612.77. 4064 Players. 1548 Tournaments.
#2. Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. $122,637,075.91. 14356 Players. 5929 Tournaments.
#3. Fortnite. $108,281,355.70. 4866 Players. 740 Tournaments.
#4. $87,231,390.10. 7858 Players. 2635 Tournaments.
#5. StarCraft II. $35,746,279.78. 2104 Players.

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Games can be really bad for the general public. I learned in psychology 101 some of the techniques that video games employ to hook their players. It's quite sad. And I feel victim to it for years. They are targeting kids even younger now.

Rsurfer said:

:iagree:I myself have never gotten trapped.

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I tried smoking and drinking alcohol but never got trapped myself. However, with certain types of videos games, it's designed to trap you and make you addicted. In case anyone is wondering, I got addicted to the COD series - this was the company that recently got sued by the state of California for harassing their female workers.

First test: Water beading levels of popular sealants/ceramics/waxes

By beading level, I mean how circular the water droplets are when they are on the treated surface. The testing methods I am using is done mostly by eye because I don't have access to expensive equipment to measure all of these things. However, I do have a developed eye because I am an art student where we are trained to be observational in a certain way. My guesstimate is that I am 80% accurate, which is pretty damn good. One shot of the Moderna vaccine protects you 80%, baby. The second makes you 90%. So 80% is no joke.

But why hydrophobic? Basically, it makes things easier to clean and keeps the surface cleaner. When water beads up, it carries with it more dirt(that's what I've read) And I will test this. Dirt has bacteria in it. Plants like the lotus leaf may have developed hydrophobic leaves for self cleaning purposes.

On this test, I used the glass surface of a cologne bottle. When the surface is untreated, the contact angle falls between 3 and 30 degrees.
When the surface is treated, the contact angle falls between 50 and 60 degrees.

(untreated)

(Treated)




The product increased the contact angle by 1X. However, to be considered hydrophobic, Contact angle must be 90 degrees or higher.

I used only one product here and will probably test only one more product. This is because I'm going to assume that you will get similar performance from the other products. Why? Well, even though it is unscientific to assume, I'm also using statistics and business to make predictions. Because this product was made by a well known company, if they failed, it's most likely the other products are going to fail too. What, you honestly think a smaller company with less financial backing is going to make a better product? Highly doubt it.

The question is then, do we assume and save money on testing, or do we not assume and test all at once and save money once and for all since we know exactly which product is hydrophobic or non hydrophobic?

I also found that if a surface already has high contact angle, using the product on it actually lowers the contact angle down to about 50-60 degrees. Also, microfiber towels can still scratch like a mofo.

Coatingsarecrack said:

Meguiars is a well known big company…. Polish angel is alot smaller…. If you were to test a spray sealant from both companies you would see the flaw in your assumption
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Ill test it. But I'm confident that there wont be a noticeable difference.

Also im not going to use the names of the products.

Bosko said:

why are you using a cologne bottle

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The surface was flat and it didn't have any special coatings.

Other surfaces have coatings that didn't give me an angle of around zero from the start.

It had the same surface as a car panel striped of all coatings, but is flat

Bosko said:

You dont know that...are you a chemist?
I think you are over thinking many things in your tests and want to be observations
good luck though...I'll bow out of the thread...

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Actually this test is about as simple and crude as it can get. I'm not a Chemist. But I am a college student who has some background in science.

Coatingsarecrack said:

I don’t think I get what your testing is trying to accomplish?

Your testing products that were designed for clearcoat and single stage paint….. manufacturer’s will tell you you can use on any car surface…. But is that because it works the same on all surfaces or they want to sell more product?

With different materials there will be different surface tension, how the products bond… I get they will be tested on same surface so one less variable will definitely affect angle of bead. Also not 100% sure but will probably react differently in car glass than cologne bottle.

And you are on a detailing forum, most here will want to know when the see comparison tests the products that are being compared.

I know you are just trying to test some basic scientific theory but i think you would get better feedback/criticism from people who care about the science in some sort of science forum. Most here will not find it useful being tested on non automotive glass with no product information.

I do wish you good fortunes in your testing and schooling.

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Thanks. It means a lot. I got addicted to games and have lost a lot of time. But it has also helped me to value school and the things I've learned a lot more. Money doesn't come in when one play games all day and eventually things catch up.

The purpose of this test was a couple of things:

1. To put the claim of being hydrophobic to the test. In order for it to be hydrophobic, it must be 90 degrees or more. So far it's only hitting 60.
While true these products does make a difference from 0, it's not true hydrophobic.

2. To encourage and push competition and competitiveness among these companies. Now that we have a better understanding, it can start a race for these companies to see who develops a true hydrophobic product. It's also a way for us to channel our money into companies that are "doing things right" and spending money on R&D. Lastly it's a way for companies to stop being so comfortable imo.

3. To become a better researcher myself. I'm still noob in a lot of things.

I used glass from the cologne bottle because it's meant to be a guesstimate, meaning it should be interchangeable from surface to surface without much change. The surface of the cologne bottle is similar enough to the glass on cars and paint .

2black1s said:

I can appreciate your curiosity. I have an engineering background in the aerospace industry and can fall into the same type of curiosities as you. I've done my share of experiments, both professionally and personally, covering a wide range of subjects including detailing.

Many of these "detailing" experiments were enjoyable and provided some insights although I think the biggest benefit was not so much what I learned from the experiment, but rather the discipline of conducting the experiment. Those same disciplines can be used in a wide array of activities of normal life.

That said, when it comes to detailing and the products used, unless you are trying to develop your own line of products, you are probably better off just choosing products from manufacturer(s) that you trust and then using your own experiments to find how the chosen products work best for you.

Beware of "paralysis-by-analysis".

All we are really trying to accomplish is to make our work look as good as it can. Regardless of how many experiments you conduct, your eyes will tell the story.

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Thank you, sir! Yeah conducting the experiment was fun but I cry when I can't afford the tools lol. I'm going to be buying a microscope pretty soon.