Not Getting the Paint To " Pop"

[jpegs13]

I'm new at this. Not a professional, just a car guy. I've been "lurking", reading, jotting down notes and I just can't seem to get it right. HELP!
I just can't seem to get the depth and wet look shine that I've seen from you guys and gals. I can get the swirls out and most of the scratches. I'm too chicken right now to try wet sanding, so I'll live with some of the scratches.

Ok let me tell you the products I've been using on my '09 Black Escalade.

DP Xtreme Foam Auto Shampoo
Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay
Griots ROP
Pinnacle Advanced Swirl Remover w/ LC Orange Pad
Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish w/ LC White Pad
Every Wax known to man has been tried.

The car shines, but it seems to have a haze. It just doesn't have that "wow factor" What am I doing wrong? I've tried taking pictures but they don't seem to capture what I'm trying to explain.
:surrender:

[agpatel]

Few questions:

1. Is this haze look after or before you apply the wax?
2. Are you sure you are working the polishes all the way till they look almost transparent oily film look?
3. Is the pad caking up on you or anything?

[jpegs13]

Few questions:

1. Is this haze look after or before you apply the wax?
2. Are you sure you are working the polishes all the way till they look almost transparent oily film look?
3. Is the pad caking up on you or anything?

1: yes the haze is prior to wax
2: I think so
3: The pad seems fine. No caking

[jpegs13]

I really want to get this right. I have the '07 LP640 shown in my avitar and I want to do it right. I don't trust my "baby" with just anybody.

[agpatel]

1: yes the haze is prior to wax
2: I think so
3: The pad seems fine. No caking

First off, GREAT CAR!, :props:.

Hmmm, I cant really think of anything else right off the top of my head..seems like the wax is not making it hazy and polish is breaking down you should be good. Where are you located maybe someone is close by and would not mind helping you out.

[ASPHALT ROCKET]

I would get a finishing polish like Menzerna 85rd to really bring out the shine with a finishing pad. You can reference one of the Lambos I have done in show and shine and see the products I used to get an idea of what a shine on one should look like.

[Rsurfer]

Follow Asphalt Rocket's procedure and your black Escalade will look like a pool of black ink. I hope all the waxes you've tried are not OTC.

[jpegs13]

Follow Asphalt Rocket's procedure and your black Escalade will look like a pool of black ink. I hope all the waxes you've tried are not OTC.

No. I have Dodo Juice and just recently bought Souveran and tried that on it.

[jpegs13]

I would get a finishing polish like Menzerna 85rd to really bring out the shine with a finishing pad. You can reference one of the Lambos I have done in show and shine and see the products I used to get an idea of what a shine on one should look like.

I just placed an order for Menzerna 85rd and some other stuff. I've seen some of the stuff you've posted THAT'S why i'm frustrated. You guys do amazing work and I'm having trouble getting even close.

[frosty]

I would get a finishing polish like Menzerna 85rd to really bring out the shine with a finishing pad. You can reference one of the Lambos I have done in show and shine and see the products I used to get an idea of what a shine on one should look like.

I'd like to start searching for just a that little bit extra as well. I looked at the specs of the PO 106FA which I have and the 85rd. They're both rated at removing 2500 grit scratches as is the Meg's 205.

Also, I saw the stand up job you did on the red gallardo using Ultrafina. My question is for that extra pop, can you get it with most of the polishes out there rated at 2500 grit or higher with the right finishing pad? Or is there something particular about 85rd or Ultrafina that other polishes don't have?

Just trying to clarify before I go an order yet another polish. :)

[Mike Phillips]

I just placed an order for Menzerna 85rd and some other stuff. I've seen some of the stuff you've posted THAT'S why i'm frustrated. You guys do amazing work and I'm having trouble getting even close.

Where are you located?

:)

[jpegs13]

Where are you located?

:)

Long Island, New York. If nobody is close, when are you doing the next class? I'd love to attend one of those! And it would give me a great excuse to get out of the cold and down to sunny Fla.

[Mike Phillips]

After you get the Menzerna 85RD here's what you want to do...

Test Spot


Seriously. Dial in a process that makes one small area look GREAT and after you've proven the process then duplicate it over the rest of the car.

First, get some painter's tape and place a strip of tape down a large flat panel, like the hood or a door, or for those of you reading this with a car you can also use a trunk lid or even a roof.

Horizontal surfaces you can look down on work best because you more easily place focused bright light on the panel to see what's taking place to the paint when you inspect your results.

By using some painter's tape to create a before and after section, it will be a lot easier to see if you're getting better results and even if you're getting bad results as you'll have a very distinct demarcation line between the two section.

After you apply a strip of tape to create a before and after section, now take your Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher with a clean foam polishing pad, (not finishing pad yet), and then shake up the Menzerna PO 85RD and apply an X pattern of product to the face of your pad or a circle pattern of product to the face of your pad.

Circle Pattern of Menzerna PO 85RD on the face of a CCS White Foam Polishing pad on the Griot's Garage ROP
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/796/CirclePattern.jpg



X Pattern of Menzerna PO 85RD on the face of a CCS White Foam Polishing pad on the Griot's Garage ROP
http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/796/Xpattern.jpg


Set the speed setting on the 5.0 Speed Setting and work a section about 20" squarish or so for 4 to 6 section passes. Turn the polisher off and then remove any polish residue using a clean, soft microfiber polishing cloth and then inspect the results.

Carefully remove the painter's tape and compare the difference between before and after results. If you have a Brinkman Swirl Finder Light use this to light up the panel.

The paint should be more clear. At this point what you want is a clear, defect free surface. Defects include any kind of swirls, scratches, toweling marks, haze or micro-marring. If you remove all surface defects you will have a completely flat but defect free surface. It should be crystal clear so you an easily see the color coat under the clear. The goal is a clear, smooth, defect free surface.

If you're seeing great results, then as an option you can chemically strip the after side and re-inspect. You can use Isopropyl Alcohol or Mineral Spirits or even an APC. Mineral Spirits will tend to leave a streak free finish making it easier for your to see the results. IPA and APC will tend to leave a hazy streaking finish which can cloud the paint and distract your eyes from focusing on the results. If this happens you can re-wipe the area with just about any spray detailer to remove the haze or smears.

If you're not getting these kinds of results then post back here what you're seeing.


Also, take a moment to read through this,

Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/expert-tips/20021-tips-techniques-using-porter-cable-7424xp.html)


It covers all the basics of using a dual action polisher to remove defects and goes into details like what a section pass is.



The definition of a pass
There are two definitions of the word pass as it relates to machine polishing with any type of machine.


Single Pass
A single pass is just that. It's when you move the polisher from one side of the section you're buffing to the other side of the section you're buffing. That's a single pass.


Section Pass
A section pass is when you move the polisher back and forth, or front to back with enough single overlapping passes to cover the entire section one time. That's a section pass.







:)

[jpegs13]

Mike and everyone, thanks so much. I can't wait for the shipment and begin the process! Wish me luck and I'll post the results when I'm done.

[Mike Phillips]

Long Island, New York. If nobody is close, when are you doing the next class? I'd love to attend one of those! And it would give me a great excuse to get out of the cold and down to sunny Fla.

We haven't prepared a schedule for 2010 yet as there's just too many other projects taking place right now and January is going to be a very busy month. I'll be teaching two classes at this years Mobile Tech Expo in January, one on how to use the DA Polisher and one on Wet-Sanding.

From now until then that will be on my A-List of priorities.


:)