What the hell are these (Spots On Paint)

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Hey everyone,

I'm stumped on this one.

About 3 weeks ago we went out to detail this Camaro 2010 772 HP BLACK Camaro SS...Swirl City - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum (http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/39687-2010-772-hp-black-camaro-ss-swirl-city.html)

It turned out great. The owner then had it set up to be trailered out to Cali for a show (We live in Arizona).

After arriving in Cali he gave it a wash and it was then left parted on the street. He was in Carmel, CA. It was during that time period that these spots appeared.

He emailed me and told me about them...i thought initially they were tree sap spots of some sort, figured we'd clay them out and maybe have to do touch up polishing...well that was not the case.

We got there earlier today...and these little spots were all over. On the hood and the doors mostly...and some on the quarter panels.

First we tried clay...which did NOTHING...and i mean NOTHING...didn't even fade some.

So next we tried spraying it with alcohol which again had zero effect.

We went on to try bug and tar remover and APC...still no luck.
We then tried to see if polishing would do ANYTHING, first with 205 and a Tangerine HT pad....no luck...and eventually ended up trying a Sur Buff pad with 105...on the Flex...and STILL nothing. Didn't even fade.

The odd part is, we can't even FEEL the defects. Like if sap were stuck to the paint, you'd be able to feel it on top of the paint, but it feels smooth. The other odd part is it only shows on the black part of the paint.

This car was sanded down and re-cleared about 1 1/2 years ago. I wondered at first if they were fish eyes of some sort, but it has been so quite a while since the clear had been sprayed so, I would think it would be odd for them to just now show up, but im not a painter so maybe its possible.

We started wondering if it was some sort of an insect that crawled on it in spots, because there was no 'splatter' like tree sap would make, especially on the horizontal panels.

Here are some photos i took...hope they help someone be able to pin point what this is and what to do about them.

If you look at the piece of tape ALL the way on the left, you can see some of the spots here...and all the pieces of tape are spots where the owner saw these spots or some scratches that needed to be touched up (thats another story, it happened during transport)

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302843.JPG

This is on the hood, one of the better shots i was able to take and these are the spots we did the multiple steps listed above (claying, soaking, polishing etc)..and as you can see...no change

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302875.JPG


here are a few on the top of the door frame:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302873.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302857.JPG


I'm going to ask you guys to IGNORE the hideous swirls that have been put back into the paint here...and focus on the spots lol...swirls i can deal with, these spots are a total mystery to me though

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302861.JPG


This was the biggest group of them over on the passenger door

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302863.JPG


Sorry its a little blurry in this picture but i was trying to get a close up

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302864.JPG

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302845.JPG

This is the front of the hood on the drivers side. I worry about the idea of wetsanding due to the fact that some of these spots are right on the panel edges.

Here is a little bit clearer shot

http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/1246/S7302850.JPG

So...thats what we're working with here. I'm stumped...he's stumped.

Maybe someone can pinpoint this for me and give us some direction as to where to go with it from now. Worst comes to worse he said he'd just file a claim and have a repaint...but that could mess him up w/his insurance company and plus put the car out of commission for 2 months at least and put us back at square one with some seriously swirled/hologramed paint...but then again its pretty messed up right now thanks to mr. transport *sigh*....

So, any ideas anyone?

[Flash Gordon]

Did he use an enclosed trailer?

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Did he use an enclosed trailer?

Yes

[Flash Gordon]

Yes

Well. That cancels out one therory

Can you feel the marks, or are they level with the paint?

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

Well. That cancels out one therory

Can you feel the marks, or are they level with the paint?

Thats what blows my mind, they feel totally level..with my finger tips or even finger nail...nothing grabs or snags.

[jjkacz]

This is what you need to go buy. It's pretty cheap at $12.99. This will allow you to look at the spots and help to determine if it's a bonded contaminant or something under the clearcoat. They work really well in showing you what the human eye can't see.

Let us know what you find!


Illuminated Microscope - RadioShack.com (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604)

http://RSK.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2453356w345.jpg

[Flash Gordon]

This is what you need to go buy. It's pretty cheap at $12.99. This will allow you to look at the spots and help to determine if it's a bonded contaminant or something under the clearcoat. They work really well in showing you what the human eye can't see.

Let us know what you find!


Illuminated Microscope - RadioShack.com (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604)

http://RSK.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2453356w345.jpg


Thats the same unit Kevin Brown endorces. Must be a nice one for sure


Will,

I have a freind with a black E500 that has similar spots near the license plate. Best I can figure is she ran it through Swirl-a-Thon and they sprayed something on the dry paint

I doubt your guy did this, but to me it looks like something has sprayed onto the paint and etched it. If I were you I would have him take it to his painter or offer to wetsand it, but with no gaurantees (as its already been sanded before) Good luck man :dblthumb2:

[andyo]

i have the same thing on my grand national and people say it is from buffing out the paint i got most of them out by wetsanding and repaint a spot. i did just paint my buick last year and let the paint sit the past winter. then wetsanded and buffed in the spring then the spots showed up after compounding. i think its the compond that etched in the paint but people say there were contaments in the paint when i sprayed it.

now i can rule out the spray as the camaro had factory paint and i can work on the spots more i have 4 coats of clear to work with.

[Dubbin1]

now i can rule out the spray as the camaro had factory paint and i can work on the spots more i have 4 coats of clear to work with.

Not really since he said it was sanded and cleared 1.5 years ago ;)

[dchristo]

Ive seen clearcoat turn loose from the base paint in spots like this before....if thats what happened, there's nothing you can do.....sometmes its from heat sometimes from other things

[BobbyG]

It reminds me of something called fisheyes in the paint.

Fish Eyes look like little craters on the moon where the paint pulls away from the center. (Looks well, like a fish eye and hence the name). Fish eyes occur immediately upon spraying.

Fish eyes are caused by contamination of the surface you are spraying. Water, oil and silicone are the three major culprits. Also, if you leave the wax and grease remover on too long before wiping it off, it can cause fisheyes.

When you wetsand out imperfections in the basecoat, sometimes there will be traces of water left causing the problem. To be honest, we had jobs where the fish eyes occurred and we had no idea what caused them as we could find no rhyme or reason for it.

By the way; factory applied paint is not immune to this at all...

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

It reminds me of something called fisheyes in the paint.

Fish Eyes look like little craters on the moon where the paint pulls away from the center. (Looks well, like a fish eye and hence the name). Fish eyes occur immediately upon spraying.

Fish eyes are caused by contamination of the surface you are spraying. Water, oil and silicone are the three major culprits. Also, if you leave the wax and grease remover on too long before wiping it off, it can cause fisheyes.

When you wetsand out imperfections in the basecoat, sometimes there will be traces of water left causing the problem. To be honest, we had jobs where the fish eyes occurred and we had no idea what caused them as we could find no rhyme or reason for it.

By the way; factory applied paint is not immune to this at all...

Bobby,

the base coat is factory but the clear was redone 1 1/2 years ago. But these spots JUST NOW showed up...is it still possible those could be fish eyes? I figured too much time would have passed for it to have been that

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

This is what you need to go buy. It's pretty cheap at $12.99. This will allow you to look at the spots and help to determine if it's a bonded contaminant or something under the clearcoat. They work really well in showing you what the human eye can't see.

Let us know what you find!


Illuminated Microscope - RadioShack.com (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604)

http://RSK.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2453356w345.jpg

i might have to give that a try...thanks


Ive seen clearcoat turn loose from the base paint in spots like this before....if thats what happened, there's nothing you can do.....sometmes its from heat sometimes from other things

Have you seen it turn loose after 1 1/2 years like that though?

[BobbyG]

Bobby,

the base coat is factory but the clear was redone 1 1/2 years ago. But these spots JUST NOW showed up...is it still possible those could be fish eyes? I figured too much time would have passed for it to have been that

No, these generally happen when the paint is wet and fresh. I agree, I think 1 1/2 years is too long for them to suddenly show up.

It is possible though that these pock marks were there and now have become filled with polish making them suddenly visible... The photos are quite good but seeing them in the flesh makes diagnosing easier...

[Wills.WindowsAndWheels]

No, these generally happen when the paint is wet and fresh. I agree, I think 1 1/2 years is too long for them to suddenly show up.

It is possible though that these pock marks were there and now have become filled with polish making them suddenly visible... The photos are quite good but seeing them in the flesh makes diagnosing easier...

Yeah i thought it was too long.

See thats the thing...he had waxed it on his own not long before we did the detail (we did the detail on Aug 6th) and after we finished the detail we pulled it out in the sun...did plenty of photos and video and nothing was there...and he didn't ship it out till a week later, and it wasn't until after the wash was done...and the car was left to set before the show - that they appeared...i thought about left over polish but figured it would have reared its head before...and figured i would have been able to FEEL the mark if it was in a crevice of some sorts and that one of the things we tried this morning would have at least made SOME difference in it...but nothing did...