Questions and Concerns on 1st Detail

[Ty89m]

So I spend the weekend detailing my brand new red FR-S, and while everything seemed to go smoothy, I seem to have done more harm than good :( After rolling it out into the sun this morning, I notice I have FAR more swirls/light scratches than when I started.

I washed using the two bucket method with Grit Guards, and a brand new Chennille MF wash mitt. After wash I decided to use my Pinnacle Poly Clay/Pinnacle Lubricant, and was very careful to knead the clay often, and even starting with a fresh piece half way through. I then proceeded to use Klasse AIO applied by hand using a MF applicator, then followed up with one coat of Klasse Glaze/Sealant using the same method (with a new MF applicator). This morning I got up and waxed with Pinnacle Souveran paste wax.

All of this was done with Gold Plush Jr. MF rags, and I was very careful about switching rags and also flipping them often. I have a feeling using the Klasse AIO caused more harm then good, as I was actually noticing more scratches after buffing the AIO off, isn't this supposed to polish and hide swirls? Any idea where I went wrong? Should I just accept the fact that I'll end up with scratched/swirl marked paint and get over it?

I unfortunately didn't tell the dealership to NOT wash my car before I picked it up, so have a feeling they may have caused a few of the scratches, though I'm sure most are my fault.

I intend to order a DA Polisher tomorrow, which I was going to do anyway, but now I'm even more in need of a good polish. So lastly, as I'm 100% new to polishing/compounding, can anyone give some quick advice on what I should order tomorrow? I'm thinking about starting out with the Griots Garage 6", or possibly go Flex if budget allows. So if you were in my shoes, with light swirls/scratches, what all would you be ordering tomorrow? How can I be more careful in the future to avoid having to polish my car constantly?

Any input is GREATLY appreciated, as I'm a bit bummed about spending two days detailing my car and ending up with even worse off paint, albeit now well protected ha!

Thanks!

Ty

[Evan.J]

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Working by hand is much harder that one may think. Applying too much finger tip pressure can cause swirls and scratches and even finger marks on the paint.

Did you happen to see anything in your paint after washing and claying?

Every thing seems right all the right steps taken so I'm going to say you hand application technique is to blame. Like I stated working by hand takes great skill and technique to get it right.


If your going with a DA then the GG 6" is the way to go.

[Evan.J]

Here is a recent thread that Joey had sort of the same issue where he was polishing and ended up doing more harm than good. His photo is on page three posted by me.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/65165-what-did-i-do-wrong.html

[Ty89m]

Thanks Evan,

Perhaps applying the Klasse AIO/Sealant by hand was my first mistake. I may have been a bit too aggressive with my buffing as well. So would you recommend using the GG6" (and possibly 3") for all future Klasse AIO applications? Wonder if I should use the machine for everything including my Pinnacle wax?

I'm going to spend the evening researching what pads/compounds/polishes to order, but do you have any quick and dirty suggestions on what I should be after? I'm so clueless on the polishers/backplates/pads etc. it's laughable ha! MF or Foam pads? I DON'T want to make things worse so I really need to get this right before I order/start polishing.

I wonder if the edges of the Gold Plush Jr. MF cloths may have been scratching the paint as well?

Also, on closer examination of the rear fender, I notice it almost looks like streaking and a build-up of something, I presume either the AIO or Klasse Sealant/Glaze. I was afraid to buff too hard, and may have used a bit too much Klasse.

So when the time comes next week (hopefully) I should probably wash with Dawn detergent and start clean over with a polish, then proceeds to move on to the AIO/Glaze/Carnauba?

Also, I probably should've used more fresh pieces of clay, I did my best to keep folding and kneading out the contaminants, but perhaps it wasn't enough. The car probably didn't even need the clay, though it was noticeably smoother when I was done.

Thanks again,

Ty

[Evan.J]

Thanks Evan,

Perhaps applying the Klasse AIO/Sealant by hand was my first mistake. I may have been a bit too aggressive with my buffing as well. So would you recommend using the GG6" (and possibly 3") for all future Klasse AIO applications? Wonder if I should use the machine for everything including my Pinnacle wax?

I would go with the GG6" hands down.

Either of these two kits is what I would go with:
Griot’s Garage & Meguiar’s Paint Perfection Kit NEW 3rd Generation! (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-garage-paint-perfection-kit.html)
Griot’s Garage Random Orbital Wolfgang Duo (http://www.autogeek.net/griots-garage-wolfgang-kit.html)

If you can get a 3.5" BP and use 4" pads with it too

If you don't want to do the kits and use what you have still go with the GG6"

I'm going to spend the evening researching what pads/compounds/polishes to order, but do you have any quick and dirty suggestions on what I should be after? I'm so clueless on the polishers/backplates/pads etc. it's laughable ha! MF or Foam pads? I DON'T want to make things worse so I really need to get this right before I order/start polishing.

There are so many different pads products etc to make your head spin. With those kits I suggested you get pads and products that are both top notch. I will suggest that you get some more pads. I for one and I know many other here will suggest to go with a 5" BP and 5.5" pads like the LC flats pads. The smaller pads give you more control and make correcting a bit easier for beginners.


I wonder if the edges of the Gold Plush Jr. MF cloths may have been scratching the paint as well?

I have not used the Gold plush towels but I have seen where some of the towel edges can cause scratches.

Also, on closer examination of the rear fender, I notice it almost looks like streaking and a build-up of something, I presume either the AIO or Klasse Sealant/Glaze. I was afraid to buff too hard, and may have used a bit too much Klasse.

So when the time comes next week (hopefully) I should probably wash with Dawn detergent and start clean over with a polish, then proceeds to move on to the AIO/Glaze/Carnauba?

Have you looked into any paint sealants like Blackfire Wet Diamond. These have long durability, provide great protection, and can last anywhere from 4-6 months given the right conditions. You can then top those sealants with your carnuba wax of choice after the sealant as cured.

Also, I probably should've used more fresh pieces of clay, I did my best to keep folding and kneading out the contaminants, but perhaps it wasn't enough. The car probably didn't even need the clay, though it was noticeably smoother when I was done.

If it was noticeably more smooth after then you did there right thing. As long as your constantly kneading the clay you should be fine.

Thanks again,

Ty

All your answers on in red Ty! :props:

[cardaddy]

Welcome to AGO Ty! :D

Run, don't walk and get yourself the GG6. You'll be glad you did! :xyxthumbs:

That out of the way, you are going to need pads, and lots of them. Don't make the mistake of only getting one of each. Just impossible to get any real work done that way. To compound you will need 3~4 of the same color just to get the vehicle done. If you only have yellow and find you need orange then, well... you get the idea.

I've said it often that it would be an awesome idea for AG to offer a "buffers dozen" (like a bakers dozen) where you could build out a 13 pad kit. Say 4 orange, 4 white, 3 blue, 2 black. and that would do most all vehicles. (Except those with really hard paint or bad swirls in which instance you'd need to have yellows.)

One other solution that many are having great experiences with (including myself) is the Meguiar's Microfiber Correction Kit (5½" kit). While it only has 2 cutting and 2 finishing pads, if you use lots of air and keep them clean, you'll be able to do the entire vehicle with only 2 of each pad. ;) It has a bottle of D300 compound and D301 finishing wax and they both do an excellent job. Considering the cost includes pads and both compound and finishing wax it's really a great deal. After that all you'd need is say a sealant or a final wax (the finishing wax isn't really a wax as much as a polish) which is where any other brand you like could be the final part of your process.

[Evan.J]

I've said it often that it would be an awesome idea for AG to offer a "buffers dozen" (like a bakers dozen) where you could build out a 13 pad kit. Say 4 orange, 4 white, 3 blue, 2 black. and that would do most all vehicles. (Except those with really hard paint or bad swirls in which instance you'd need to have

Wow Tony do I like that idea. A buffers dozen! :dblthumb2:

[Ty89m]

Thanks guys! Really appreciate the help! I'm probably going to grab one of the kits that Evan suggested earlier, and will def. grab extra pads! So seeings as my paint it brand new, and only has (what I'd assume is) minor scratches, would I just want to stick with orange and white pads for polishing?

If I got the kit suggested earlier, should I just use a finishing polish/glaze or should I use something more aggressive? I'd imagine this is where doing a test spot comes into play :) I suppose you'd use whatever was least aggressive as to remove as little clear coat as possible?

I'll have to look into the MF cutting pads as well, not sure what would be the best bet for a noob like myself, might have to stick with the tried and true foam pads for my first go.

You can clean the foam pads though correct?

[Evan.J]

Thanks guys! Really appreciate the help! I'm probably going to grab one of the kits that Evan suggested earlier, and will def. grab extra pads! So seeings as my paint it brand new, and only has (what I'd assume is) minor scratches, would I just want to stick with orange and white pads for polishing?

If I got the kit suggested earlier, should I just use a finishing polish/glaze or should I use something more aggressive? I'd imagine this is where doing a test spot comes into play :) I suppose you'd use whatever was least aggressive as to remove as little clear coat as possible?

I'll have to look into the MF cutting pads as well, not sure what would be the best bet for a noob like myself, might have to stick with the tried and true foam pads for my first go.

You can clean the foam pads though correct?

Ty,

If your paint is new and doesn't have too many swirls or scratches then most likely a poising pad with a finishing polish will be a perfect combo. You are right this is where your test spot will com into great play. Like you have stated least aggressive method first then move up with you have to. If you going to go with one of those then you might as well go with the Wolfgang kit if you paint isn't in too bad of shape.

You can clean the foam pads and its always a good idea to clean your pad on the fly:

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/how-articles/20135-how-clean-your-foam-pad-fly.html

Always best to work with a clean pad free of spent product :props:

[goldenlight]

new car glaze is starting to wear off... :-) Your DA will clean this up.. Expect to spend about 6hrs cleaning this up.


Use a polishing pad with a polist with abrasives in it and then follow up with your favorate wax using a wax pad..

[cardaddy]

Ty, depending on the pads, you may be better to go with orange and green, or blue. CCS pads for instance have a green one where flats don't. (they both have blue)

Of course whites may do the job, but I've found that you may have to use a heavier cutting compound to get swirls out, especially with hard paint. FYI, of all the pads I have, whites outnumber everything else 2:1 as they are (imho) the work horses. They just do so many things right, from compounding to final polishing.

Actually... last week we polished down a Lexus 460 with nothing more than Menzerna SIP and an orange CCS. Wasn't my customer, and the guy there said he wanted to use the orange pad, which surprised the heck out of me! (I'd have used whites AT LEAST) In his defense, the orange pad was very worn and softer than it was when new. :dunno:

It's not an exact science (that's for sure) so what you may find is pad pressure, compound or polish, along with machine speed and arm speed can go a long way. To tell the truth, Lake Country has so many darned pads, so close together in what they do, (how they cut) that its easy to skip over one or two in the category and do fine. For instance, Meguiars only has 3 and they do just fine by that. :xyxthumbs:

[Setec Astronomy]

Also, on closer examination of the rear fender, I notice it almost looks like streaking and a build-up of something, I presume either the AIO or Klasse Sealant/Glaze. I was afraid to buff too hard, and may have used a bit too much Klasse.

Sorry I'm a little late to the party, are you sure that this isn't your entire problem? The Klasse products are very unforgiving with heavy application (which is anything more than almost nothing) and could look like swirls/marring to the untrained eye.

[Ty89m]

Sorry I'm a little late to the party, are you sure that this isn't your entire problem? The Klasse products are very unforgiving with heavy application (which is anything more than almost nothing) and could look like swirls/marring to the untrained eye.

It's def. part of the issue, but I can still see numerous swirls/fine scratches in the sunlight, but I've most certainly used a bit too much Klasse and it's left a residue/streaking. I'm placing an order shortly for my DA Polisher/Pads and will use Dawn to strip the existing wax/sealant off this weekend and give it a polish.

Just doing a bit of research on pads/products. Nothing is ever easy ha! So many choices.

Thanks again guys, looking forward to taking my detailing to the next level with my new DA polisher.

Ty

[Ty89m]

Quick question, seeings as I don't have any serious correcting to do, should I skip the compound and just use a polish/white pad (assuming that gives the results I want on my test spot) I don't want to buy a load of orange pads if I don't have too, and don't want to screw up my brand new cars paint buy using an overly aggressive product/pad.

If you were in my shoes, and only have minor swirls what would you start with?

[Anthony@zerboautoworks]

I would start with the least aggressive product first.