recommend against newbies using rotary buffer?

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manman

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I have heard that the da orbitals are good if you're new because they are much harder to do damage with if you mess up. My question is- if you just use common sense and take the time to do some research is it still easy enough to do really bad damage that most would still recommend going with the DA to build experience?

It sounds like while with any tool they each have their place, for general paint correction, you can get the job done more efficiently (and maybe better for more serious correction?) with the rotary buffer. If it's mostly a matter of not using too much pressure, controlling the tilt to let the buffer do the movement work for you, and taking care not to over/dry buff, I think that wouldn't be too hard to handle, but if there are a lot of pitfalls for newbies, maybe I'll stick to my original plan to go DA.

The videos make it all look so easy haha...
 
Every time I pull out my rotary, I take precautions to prevent accidental damage. Even being very skilled with a rotary, there's a chance of something going wrong. All it takes is a sneeze while rotary compounding near an edge and as quick as you can say gotcha..it can get you.

If you'll be running a rotary on a regular basis, you will make mistake. Don't really think you can learn much of anything without making some mistakes. Common sense will take you far but the common sense of rotary compounding is that mistakes will happen.
 
+1 that said they are not to be feared. Expierence is the best teacher. I watched guys surfing as a kid and I thought doesn't look that hard, later I described it like trying to stand on an ice cube in the ocean. But I digress. There is a safer alternative the Flex 3401. Sort of combines the best of a DA and a RB, the downside is it's cost.

Bottomline is having both RB and DA is nice because when you have the right tools work becomes easier.

Hate to admit I'm older than most but I learned on a RB and just as Dave said use a rotary and you'll make mistakes. I made my share of them. I remember some sage advise when learning how to fly. My instructor said "never run out of ideas and altitude at the same time". When it comes to RB its kinda similar, theres no substitution for hours of expierence.

Buy one jump in and get your expierence on junk yard panels.
 
Thanks all, sounds like very sound advice. And yeah thanks Mike, that's what I was trying to get at when I mentioned all tools having their place, but I did think that for more serious defect removal on large panels the RB tool was a better fit/more efficient. I could be wrong on that one though, this is just what I gathered so far from researching online. I agree though, whenever someone asks the question "what's tool is better X or Y" without considering the job at hand, they are usually going the wrong direction :)

Ideally I should own both; my question here was more about whether it would benefit me to get some DA practice under my belt before even attempting to use an RB. I guess I should have known though since it's true with pretty much any skill- you gotta make mistakes to learn. So maybe instead of worrying about messing up the paint on the car I'm afraid to damage, I should be having fun making mistakes and learning on something different first :) Junk yard panels was great advice, thanks!
 
Taping edges & high points is good practice. Never stop moving the buffer. Don't run it at 3000 rpm. I rarely run my rotary above 1000 rpm. Its not hard to control a rotary. There is just virtually no room for error with them.

I can guarantee a hologram free finish with my da. I cannot say the same with a rotary and I've been using one since 1999. I believe I've seen threads with Mike Phillips stating he can't finish all paint perfectly with a rotary. If he can't, good luck finding someone who can.

Don't shy away from a rotary. I'd recommend getting a da also.
 
i have been using a rotary since 1977. Probably most of you were born after 77. If you don't understand what's happening and what your doing it can get very expensive. They generate heat very fast and you can burn paint in a heartbeat. When I started they never heard of clear coat unless maybe it was some kind of show car.
 
I just ordered a DA monday from AG. Should be here tomorrow.

I can't say ive made a mistake with the rotary before, but usually i was fixing some bad paint (bugs, runs, fisheye etc). Although it was always either paint from the body shop i worked at (top notch, lifetime warranty) or my own paint jobs (very heavy clear). I can say that sometimes the rotary will not get it to perfection. That being said, i cannot wait to use the DA !!! :D
 
KennyS said:
I just ordered a DA monday from AG. Should be here tomorrow.

I can't say ive made a mistake with the rotary before, but usually i was fixing some bad paint (bugs, runs, fisheye etc). Although it was always either paint from the body shop i worked at (top notch, lifetime warranty) or my own paint jobs (very heavy clear). I can say that sometimes the rotary will not get it to perfection. That being said, i cannot wait to use the DA !!! :D
Click to expand...

Which one did you get?

Congrats btw
 
I think a rotary with a Dynabrade head would be a great tool for people just starting out.
 
Someone mentioned the Flex 3401 as sort of a hybrid of the two types earlier. The orbial action would help reduce the risk of creating holograms (and I'm saying reduce, not eliminate :laughing:) is that right? If I can only get one product right now, any other opinions on choosing that one as a starter?

edit: just noticed the dynabrade comment as well. Only gave a quick look so far, that solution sounds similar to the flex (direct drive, but orbital action as well) correct?
 
I bought the griots 6"..... right before it went on sale -.-
 
manman said:
Someone mentioned the Flex 3401 as sort of a hybrid of the two types earlier. The orbial action would help reduce the risk of creating holograms (and I'm saying reduce, not eliminate :laughing:) is that right?
Click to expand...


Holograms are a very specific type of swirl or "scratch pattern" inflicted into paint by a rotary buffer, no other tool as the pattern is caused in part by the singular rotating action of the pad against the paint.

ANY DA or dual action "type" polisher can leave DA Haze or Micro-Marring in the paint when used with the wrong pad or sub-standard abrasive technology and this micro-marring or DA Haze can and will show up in "patterns" in the paint but this is still very different than holograms.


Here's two articles on this topic and I cover it in my how-to book also...


The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls and Micro-Marring

Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring



manman said:
If I can only get one product right now, any other opinions on choosing that one as a starter?
Click to expand...


What type of detailing do you plan on doing, this will answer your question.

  1. Only your car?
  2. Detailing for money?
If detailing for money, do you plan on doing daily drivers or show cars?


See this article,


How to use a one-step cleaner/wax to maximize profits


:)
 
Does anybody have a link on how to avoid holograms using a rotary?

My cousin avoids them using his method after damp sanding (new paint)

Black cars for me where a big mission for me because of Holograms lol

(Only had a Dewalt, wool pad and black foam pad) that was it... Asking for more, I would have gotten a back hand "smack!"

(Kidding)

Just wondering what other tips are out there :)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
What type of detailing do you plan on doing, this will answer your question.

  1. Only your car?
  2. Detailing for money?
If detailing for money, do you plan on doing daily drivers or show cars?
)
Click to expand...

Ah, ok I didn't know that about holograms. I will be detailing my own car- not a daily driver, more like a weekend driver. Jet black so pretty much shows everything. Doesn't need to be car show perfect, but I want to put in the time to keep it swirl/haze free as much as possible. Looking for a good balance between ease of use (i.e. learning curve) and time efficiency.
 
AeroCleanse said:
I think a rotary with a Dynabrade head would be a great tool for people just starting out.
Click to expand...
I have the Dynabrade Polisher wth their Random Orbital Head. It is a beast. 3/4" stroke and the standard BP is 8". The machine weighs in @ 12.5 lbs. It is the heaviest machine I own. It is also one of the easiest to operate. It will accept a 6" DA BP so you can use smaller pads too. The Head alone costs $ 129 from Dynabrade online store, abrasivedge.com. The head weighs 3 lbs but is AMAZING! I ordered a second head to use on a lighter rotary.
 
Old Tiger said:
I have the Dynabrade Polisher wth their Random Orbital Head. It is a beast. 3/4" stroke and the standard BP is 8". The machine weighs in @ 12.5 lbs. It is the heaviest machine I own. It is also one of the easiest to operate. It will accept a 6" DA BP so you can use smaller pads too. The Head alone costs $ 129 from Dynabrade online store, abrasivedge.com. The head weighs 3 lbs but is AMAZING! I ordered a second head to use on a lighter rotary.
Click to expand...

Lot less vibration than a DA alone, at least my unit is, which is a 61384
 
Manman you are better off getting a DA alone. A griotts garage 6 inch DA will be perfect for you along with a 5inch backing plate and some 5.5 inch pads. This is basically what im using on my own car. I have the Kestrel which is the European equivalent of the GG 6".

Once youve gotten rid of the swirls, youd need to use good washing and drying techniques to maintain the finish as long as possible.

If you plan to detail others cars for a living, you are better off getting a heavy duty Flex / Rupes DA and a rotary for those especially hard clear coats. If you wish to go for rotary, get a scrap black painted panel and spend hours practising on it. Know how much arm movement you need, how many passes etc and other techniques. Familiarise yourself with the machine, so that chances of doing a mistake on your or customers car is very less.

Autogeek is now having a closeout sale on Griots garage products and now seems to be the best time to get their machines plus their liftime warranty gives you headache free ownership.

Hope this helps.



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