Help with wax/wash process- about to give up!

manman

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So far in my (limited) experience, it seems like I have two choices. Have a clean car full of swirl marks, or have a dirty scratch free car. I can't for the life of me figure out how to keep my car clean AND scratch free, and avoid having to polish it ALL the time. I thought the goal was to only have to do all that polishing work once and then keep from scratching it again (maybe occasionally after that, but not after every wash!) I either need to figure out my washing technique better, or really re-set my expectations here.

My car is a 2004 e46 M3- jet black. Here was the process I followed last:

Right now since I'm still inexperienced (and after doing the whole car and realizing I wasn't doing it right) I decided to start doing my car slowly, one panel at a time. So right now, one side of the car + hood had the following done:

  • polish with WG TSR/FG. Made sure this part of the car was totally scratch/swirl free under sunlight/brinkman
  • 1 coat of WG Deep Gloss paint sealant, 2 coats Dodo Juice Supernatural

Everything was looking great on that side- I was just hitting each new panel I was ready to work on with QD and microfiber before working on it since it wasn't too dirty. But after doing almost half the car, and driving it over a few weeks, it started to get dusty enough that it needed a full wash. Wash process was

  • Rinse car off with power washer (greenworks 1700-PSI 1.4-GPM). Definitely saw the beading on the pats that had been sealed and waxed.
  • Soap it up w/ power washer/ AG foam cannon using DP Xtreme. Let it sit for just a little under 5 min
  • Wash w/ CarPro wool wash mitt. The parts of the car that hadn't already been polished/waxed I used a little more pressure. Parts where I had finished polishing and waxing I used almost NO pressure this time, because last time I did it I noticed either the mitt or waffle weave had put swirls back in.
  • Rinse the car off again using pressure washer, then sheeting method w/ just the hose
  • Pat dry w/ waffle weave mf towels
The results:
Immediately after touching polished/waxed hood of the car w/ the wool mitt I could see the micromarring- even with extremely light pressure. I didn't want to let the car stay dirty, so I just said F* it and did the rest to finish this experiment and see what the results would be. In the end- the hood was totally swirled up pretty bad...vertical panels were not nearly as bad. Was tough to see without direct sunlight, but those still do have very light micromarring as well. You can tell there is a bit of a haze, not too bad but it's there. The beading stayed good on the vertical panels, but unless my mind was playing tricks on me, the beading was also not nearly as good on the hood when I rinsed everything off.. it was sheeting and pooling a lot more. It's only been a few weeks, I can't imagine 1 coat of DGPS and 2 coats of wax would be gone...during 1 wash. And that was DP foam, not dawn or anything.

Also...the car pretty much looks like crap. Water spots everywere, and just generally not that clean, because of how afraid I was to use pressure with the wash mitt- and clearly for good reason. I can accept that 2-3 weeks was probably too long to not wash the car- I usually do it once a week, but didn't want to mess things up in the middle of polishing because of my last experience... So that leaves me 2 questions

-Even if it was too long- what DO you do if your car has too much dust on it. I don't know how much more 'low touch' I can get than this process.
-The fact that the hood was worse than the sides does suggest it was because of more dust etc settling on the hood. But the last time I did this, there was pretty much 0 time between the clay/polish & washing the car (that time I was using ONR to do a rinseless wash to get polish streaks off), and the wool mitt still left scratches. Looks like I need to ditch these wool mitts, but have those ever been a problem for anyone else...seriously I was using NO pressure at all! Ultimately what I need to figure out here is, what do I use/how do I get enough pressure to get the car actually clean, but not introduce more swirls in the paint? (Also- aren't carnuba waxes supposed to be super hard? Shouldn't they be protecting from this?)


Sorry for the long rant, but it is SO frustrating to do all that polishing work and try to be so careful only to have it ruined...
 
All i gotta say is get yourself a leaf blower. And dont use a wax anymore if you are getting a lot of dust. Stick with a sealant by itself. Or better yet, get yourself a coating like 22ple.

I personally stopped using waxes on my car for that reason, now i just have 22ple on my car and its so much better than waxing.
 
I said goodbye to waxes long ago. Best move i ever made. A coating is the way to go. They keep getting better and easier to use.

Your car will thank you.
 
Dude, you own a black car, it's not supposed to be easy. Get a white one next time. :)
 
I personally don't like QD wipedowns as it's way too easy to put too much pressure and scratch up your paint.
 
All i gotta say is get yourself a leaf blower. And dont use a wax anymore if you are getting a lot of dust. Stick with a sealant by itself. Or better yet, get yourself a coating like 22ple.

I personally stopped using waxes on my car for that reason, now i just have 22ple on my car and its so much better than waxing.

I was planning to get myself a leaf blower for drying- but since I paid better attention this time I could see that the marring came from the wool mitt washing step, not the drying step.

As far as the wax vs sealant, is what was the main reason/difference when it comes to protecting the car from scratches/swirls? I used both so I would think I should still get the benefits of the sealant.

Dude, you own a black car, it's not supposed to be easy. Get a white one next time. :)

Yeah... I really thought I was up to learning about detailing and keeping up with it, but this is just crazy. I only owned white cars before this- never did anything outside of washing and they always looked great!

I personally don't like QD wipedowns as it's way too easy to put too much pressure and scratch up your paint.

Never had a problem with the QD wipedowns so far. So far it has only been when I had to do a full wash (and specifically only the step where I actually touch the car to wash it) that is giving me problems. Everything else has been fine. If I had done a washless/QD step every single day I probably could have avoided this, but that's just too much for me :).
 
I would recommend finding a forum member to help you polish it out. Then coat it with a coating. Afterwards buy the necessary maintenance products to keep it looking good. This comes after learning some new tricks on the wash and dry process as well. Jet Black is a very challenging paint color, and even the slightest mistake will set you back a lot of time already to redo the damage.
 
I have a customer with a black show car who gets fanatical about swirls. I told him to get Prima Banana Gloss and since he has bought and began using it he hasn't one complaint about swirls or marring. You need a glaze when you own a black car with soft paint if you don't want to be polishing all the time.
 
I would recommend finding a forum member to help you polish it out. Then coat it with a coating. Afterwards buy the necessary maintenance products to keep it looking good. This comes after learning some new tricks on the wash and dry process as well. Jet Black is a very challenging paint color, and even the slightest mistake will set you back a lot of time already to redo the damage.

Do you have any tips for me on those maintenance products, steps? I got great results on my polishing at least- my result might suggest I do need help with the sealing/waxing though- maybe I didn't do a good job with that.

I have a customer with a black show car who gets fanatical about swirls. I told him to get Prima Banana Gloss and since he has bought and began using it he hasn't one complaint about swirls or marring. You need a glaze when you own a black car with soft paint if you don't want to be polishing all the time.

Thanks Dave. So it sounds it's the 'adjusting expectations' part that I really need. Sounds like from what you and others are saying, (especially if this is a car that actually gets driven regularly) there's just no way I am going to avoid the swirls, and I'll need something with fillers...

I can live with that... the one thing I'm really just most surprised about is- should a wool mitt really be this bad for me? Like I said- this happened even when the car had been clayed and polished just before, so there should have been no contaminants on the paint- yet it still left marring. And after putting sealant and a high carnuba content wax like the supernatural, I just don't get it...

For my next experiment I think I'm going to just use the same MF towels I do for my QD wipedowns & buffing out polish/wax residue. those have never given me any trouble, so I can at least tell if it's the product touching the paint vs something else about the process.
 
I've had a few wool wash mitts over the years and never really cared for them. It's the shedding I didn't care for. I never really noticed them scratching though. Are you using a real lamb's wool mitt or a synthetic wool mitt?

I like the orange chenille mitts that Poorboy's has on his site. Never marred a finely polished car with one, but never really maintained jett black either.
 
throw away the woooooollllll mit!
just use a clean new micro fiber towel and wipe gently.
 
I like my Chenille mitt. Was reading your original post. When I read "Jet Black"
I thought. Ahh this explains it.

Could also be the mitt is to harsh for that Jet Black paint?

Jet Black paints have always been harder to wok with from my past experiences.

Like others said, you should polish it and add a coating. Of course anything is still possible so you'll still have to properly maintain the car.

I got my Chenille mitt from pep boys and I like it.

I want to get another one. I have 2 already. One for the top part of the car, other for lower part of the car. And 3rd will be for wheels.
 
The CarPro Wool Wash Mitt is designed for extra gentle, luxurious washing following the application of CQuartz Paint Protection. Made of 100% Merino wool, the CarPro Wool Wash Mitt pampers your vehicle while safely removing dirt. The unique mitt design makes it easy to control and fun to use!

^ interesting that it says this. I could be wrong about the mitt btw
 
The CarPro Wool Wash Mitt is designed for extra gentle, luxurious washing following the application of CQuartz Paint Protection. Made of 100% Merino wool, the CarPro Wool Wash Mitt pampers your vehicle while safely removing dirt. The unique mitt design makes it easy to control and fun to use!

^ interesting that it says this. I could be wrong about the mitt btw

Yeah, I really don't get it... especially after pre-rinse with the pressure washer and then foam cannon, I wouldn't expect there to be enough contamination to do damage not even using any pressure.

I'll try to get some more polishing done this week and then wash again with MFs next weekend and see how it goes.
 
I been using a merino wool mitt (Wookie Fist) for my personal car (E90-Jet Black) for a while and it is one of the best mitts I own.

Just a re-cap on your process and please correct me if I missed anything.

Rinse with Power washer
Pre-soaked with foam (5 minutes)
Wash with wool mitt
Rinse with power washer

Do you employ a 2 buckets wash system? If not do you lay down more foam (after the initial pre-soak) before you wash with the wool mitt? Lastly, do you rinse out the mitt before going on to the next panel?
 
http://youtu.be/E-M2Cq0RNTs

I like to do water sheeting, then I apply Pinnacle WW on the paint. I then do the tap method to dry the paint.

I also apply Pinnacle WW to my damp drying towel to for added lubricity prior to drying.
 
I have this towel and I love this towel.

Chemical Guys Wooly Mammoth drying towel.

I dry my car like this I just sheet the water first. Then apply Pinnacle WW to the entire car next.

Then Tap Dry

http://youtu.be/5Pa291IYNbI
 
I been using a merino wool mitt (Wookie Fist) for my personal car (E90-Jet Black) for a while and it is one of the best mitts I own.

Just a re-cap on your process and please correct me if I missed anything.

Rinse with Power washer
Pre-soaked with foam (5 minutes)
Wash with wool mitt
Rinse with power washer

Do you employ a 2 buckets wash system? If not do you lay down more foam (after the initial pre-soak) before you wash with the wool mitt? Lastly, do you rinse out the mitt before going on to the next panel?

That sounds about right. I don't use 2 bucket wash ever since I got the foam cannon. I usually re-foam a bit directly after the initial pass (like I do a really quick second pass) but not after the 5 min wait. I do rinse the mitt roughly once every panel, using the grit guard in a 5 gal bucket. I don't know if my mitt is just bad or it has something caught in it that isn't washing out, but it's crazy how it's like the /instant/ it touches the paint, no pressure, and there are the streaks. Do you think I should still do a 2 bucket wash? Might it be too little lubrication from not enough soap?

About drying methods- I'm sure it has nothing to do with the way I'm drying since I checked the paint right after the mitt and before drying. For drying I just pat dry with a WW- I didn't see any further marring from that step.

Like I said- this also happened when I used an ONR rinseless wash mixture as well. Is it also possible it's the water? I'm not using distilled water or anything, just regular hose.
 
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