to go to automotive school or not

you had a bad time at goodyear but dont let it stop you grow from it go to automotive school if that what your dream is you can find stable work and make 35 to 45k a year but whats going to help you the most to keeping a job and earning money is ase certifcation, inspection license etc

cherokeedawg240 said:

I love cars. Ive spend hrs at a time looking at my car and planing things I could do to it to make it faster.

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Do you do any work on your own car? I hate to be blunt, but sometimes interest does not equal aptitude. I am sure that Goodyear hires a lot of people without experience and if they considered you "untrainable" that seems to not be a good sign.

On the other hand, yes, it is possible to make a decent and stable living as a mechanic. I would point out that at a "certain" age, those kind of jobs become unattractive (being out in the weather, crawling under dashboards, etc.).

If you think you have the interest and aptitude to be a mechanic, as well as the discipline to go to school every day and learn, then I encourage you to do it.

It's the boss's responsibility to only have you do work your trained for. If your not trained then they should have given you some. On the other hand maybe you shouldn't have gone for or taken a job you weren't prepared for. If you want to work on cars then go to auto school and get trained. If you're not cut out for it then you won't make it through the schooling. If you're passionate and interested then at least try. The higher up the chain you climb and more work you get then you'll make money. Good luck to you. " don't let anyone steal your dream, it's your dream not theirs" -zadra

Setec Astronomy said:

Do you do any work on your own car? I hate to be blunt, but sometimes interest does not equal aptitude. I am sure that Goodyear hires a lot of people without experience and if they considered you "untrainable" that seems to not be a good sign.

On the other hand, yes, it is possible to make a decent and stable living as a mechanic. I would point out that at a "certain" age, those kind of jobs become unattractive (being out in the weather, crawling under dashboards, etc.).

If you think you have the interest and aptitude to be a mechanic, as well as the discipline to go to school every day and learn, then I encourage you to do it.

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I sincerely like how open and honest you are on all of your posts Sectec. It may not mean much coming from a simple forum member, but I do appreciate your posts.

The only person that can hold you back, is yourself.

I took an auto body class in college. It didn't really interest me. I also took an estimator class. I even took mentorship program for a week. I was the adjusters side kick lol

That didn't really interest me either. So I am just going to school for a degree. Computer Science.

But I have been Detailing throughout all those years. Was the detailer at a body shop, I was even the Detailer for Auto Body college class :laughing:

If I could get an associates degree or bachelor's degree in Detailing. I would pursue that, but that doesn't exist.

My neighbor went to UTI and he now works for Mercedes. I don't know all the specifics. However I always see him working on his or customers car.

Don't look at what happened at Goodyear as a bad experience. Look at it as a lesson. Learn from that lesson and move on and get better.

Back to detailing: burning through paint is a horrible feeling. Luckily it was at the body shop. Now I learned why and how. So that won't happen to me.

So like I said, just learn from it, improve and keep going, until you master it.

If it's a true passion, nothing can hold you back, except for yourself.

Good Luck!

Art

I got a 2 year degree in automotive repair out if high school. Then I worked as a flat rate mechanic for a Ford dealership for 7 years or so, then a few years doing alignments and front end work at an alignment shop. So, I've been through it. After a few years, I couldn't wait to get out

You didn't mention your age. Fixing cars for a living is a HARD job. First, there are generally 2 ways you can get paid: hourly and flat rate. Flat rate is if an engine "pays" 8.2 hours to replace it book time, you get paid 8.2 hours to do it. It doesn't matter if it takes you 3 hours, 17 hours, or you have to do it twice because Ford sent you an engine with the wrong wiring harness.

Flat rate is feast or famine. Sometimes there is a ton of work and you end up working 14 hours a day, and sometimes there is no work and you stand around half the day for free. Ideally you want it to be in the middle, but often its not. A flat rate mechanic could work a 40 hour week and get paid for 20, 30,40, 50 hours, etc.. Its just you vrs the clock (and some luck).

It can be really dreadful never knowing how much money you going to being home each week. Some weeks are good, some bad. But its always kind of a gamble. Sometimes for whatever reason you end up working for free. If your the kind of guy who isn't bothered by that, then more power to you.

There tends to be a lot of "politics" at dealerships. Certain guys are favored with "good work" for whatever reason, other guys get all the sh#t work dumped on them. I worked with guys making 100k a year and guys making 30k a year, all of them were basically equally qualified and doing the same type of work.


Second way ti get paid is hourly. Hourly wages are pretty low, because they figure a guy getting paid by the hour is going to take his time and not going to turn as much work. If your content at what they pay you and can live off it, than that is fine.

Yes, it's not too difficult to make 40k a year at a dealership if you have some training, some ASE certifications, a few years experience, and state inspection and emission licenses (PA). But fixing cars for a living is nothing like working on your own car
for fun.

Honestly, if your young enough I would suggest going to college for something that enables you to get a license to do it when your done. Anyone can call themselves a mechanic. Some of them are excellent and some of them are terrible. Some people just fall back on it for whatever reason. Generally, I just found a lack of professionalism in the whole industry, mainly because there is no real standard of who is a "mechanic".

I'm sure there are good shops and jobs out there. The problem with that is, shops can close, get new owners, or go out of business at any time. That's why tool boxes have wheel, we used to say. So, then your back where you started from, trying to find a good fair shop and hoping if you do it stays that way.

Honestly, it wasn't for me. I got out, got loans went to college, and am now making 3-4x as much as I was fixing cars in a much more professional environment. People at my job don't come in with hangovers every day, get arrested for coke, and their wife doesn't come to the job and smash all their car windows with a hammer. All those things happened at the dealership I worked at.

Good luck in whatever you do.

dont give up! and dont let fear get in the way. you wouldnt be asking if you should do it if you really didnt want to actually do it, so i say go after it!! it sounds like you have the passion, go chase your dream!! you will be fine!!

swanicyouth said:

There tends to be a lot of "politics" at dealerships. Certain guys are favored with "good work" for whatever reason, other guys get all the sh#t work dumped on them. I worked with guys making 100k a year and guys making 30k a year, all of them were basically equally qualified and doing the same type of work.

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So true, although arguably every job has its politics and the people who seem to get away with murder or get paid more for doing less, but the flat rate system certainly gets manipulated.

cherokeedawg240 said:

Sorry Ive not posted in a long time been busy. I need some advice. I'm addicted to cars and trucks and have been since I was little. Thought about having a career in it but backed out. And now I am regretting it.

Ive been nervous to go to automotive school for a couple of reasons. One I was told that working on cars I couldn't make much money and couldn't find a stable job Its very common for mechanics to jump around shop-to-shop, dealership-to-dealership. its also common to for shops to give little to no benefits. which SUCKS if you have a family or something .. Well Now I work at a grocery store and dont make much money at all and hate my job. honestly, being a mechanic wont be life changing. the work is there, money isnt

The other reason I have been scared to go back to automotive school is I worked at a Goodyear express shop for a few weeks and it was a total disaster. I was hired to change oil and tires. I had no training and because of that I was learning and messed up a tire putting it on a rim. And I had never drove a big pick up and no one guided me and and i hit the mirror off. And after that the the boss fired me and said I didnt belong near a car. lol, completely forget about this. bad manager, bad work, not your fault at all.

And that devastated me. Because I love cars. Ive spend hrs at a time looking at my car and planing things I could do to it to make it faster. But after the goodyear job Ive been scared to even try.
im sorry, but LOL. one thing is looking at your car and seeing what you can do to it. its a totally different world when you start building engines. whether its basic bolt ons, tubo, super, nitro, swaps, etc.. and to me, it seems like you no little of cars. i think you are intrigued by YOUR car. its TOTTAALLLYYY different when you do it for a living.


So my questions are. Can you find a stable job working on cars? Yes, but it varies on SOOO MANNYYY factors. Where you live, what company you work for, flag or hourly, how much business the company gets, dealership/indepedent shop, are you working for cheap people, etc... Can you make decent money (and I dont mean get rich I mean like 35-45 grand a year)? My cousin worked for GMC (in texas), he made close to 50K. but its on flag hours and hes been wrenching for 5 years as a profession but his whole life as a hobby. Also do I let that Goodyear job keep me away? or was that just a bad experience and I just need to go to school and for get what happened there.

Ive thought about detailing and or selling and putting on accessories. And also automotive journalism. Thats where my passion is. paint detailing and accessories ect just given it to you how it is. you have little to no knowledge of cars. im sure you find cars interesting. but the way you talk doesnt seem like you know what really goes intoo mechanics, building engines, racing, etc..

thoughts?

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what is your ultimate goal as being a mechanic?

do you want to work at a dealership/independent shop working bumper to bumper?

do you want to own your own business? become a race performance shop?

or would you rather specialize in a specific manufacture?

there are sooooo many ways to go about this.

pm if you want. id be more than happy to help with anything

cherokeedawg240 said:

Even the grocery store I work at has those politics. I'm 27. The business plan I have is not the normal route which scares me. Ive thought about doing a combo automotive journalism business writing automotive articles and such for magazines and news papers. and with that also doing a mobile car detailing business. And Ive thought about a automotive accessory business. I hope that all doesnt sound crazy

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Again, i dont think you know how competitive it is to be able to write/work for places like this. you are far behind if you have not been writing/reading anything automotive just for fun.

it is not easy. its a lot harder than detailing

No matter where you work, or the position you hold there will be politics, bs, etc. It is just a part of any business.

If you do decide to go to school for automotive technology, go for an associates degree and take as many business, law, and marketing classes as you can along the way.

Also pick a school that has manufacturer backing. Such as the Ford ASSET or Toyota T-TEN programs. It helps tremendously with job placement and ability to hit the shop and make money quickly after school.

Do not plan on this being your lifelong career. Unless you don't care about your body and quality of life later on. You can make very good money, especially if you specialize in diesel/heavy line and can land a few fleet accounts. After 10-15 years in the shop (maybe sooner) transition in to writing service if you like the dealership you're working for. Still have an ability to make good money and a lot easier on the body. It will be more challenging mentally though.

I spent a few years at a great Ford dealership, made good money, and enjoyed the job. But I now work in the corporate world in marketing, so you never know where life will take you.

Whatever you decide, don't spend too long dwelling on the question of what to do. You'll never know what you're capable of unless you take action!

Best of luck to you on your journey.

Are you good with fixing things? I knew as a kid I was good at repairing different stuff. From bicycles, go carts and motorcycles, I'd fixed stuff for other kids and even lawnmowers for their parents. Older when I started working on cars my parents driveway was a busy place for sure lol. Through the years I've worked as a mechanic, bodyman & painter and assembling engines (rebuilder). What I'm getting at is most guys know if they have mechanical ability or not pretty early in life.

I've worked at a dealership as a bodyman and hated it! The smaller bodyshops with 10 or less employees I found to be my niche. Not everyone is cut out to work on cars but IMO if your good with fixing things and have a mechanical ability... Yeah go back to school apply yourself and have the confidence that you'll succeed.

For what it's worth... I've never used a machine mounting tires. See you already have more experience than me in that dept.

You allowed a lousy tire shop let you down? Pursue your dream and don't give up. I sucked at brakes, tires, and electrical work with cars, still to do this day i will do anything except those.

cherokeedawg240 said:

Even the grocery store I work at has those politics.

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Sure, everywhere does. Just the point I was trying to make is that if your working as a flat rate tech it directly impacts your pay check.

If your one of the "golden boys" fortune will smile on you with gravy work: brakes, struts, maintenance jobs, etc...

If your not, you may find yourself immersed in squeaks, rattles, and intermittent problems you won't get paid to go after.

What I posted is just my experience. Maybe my dealer was just crappy. I was there 7 years and stuck with it.

I still remember all the warranty fraud that was going on there. Then, one day, 3 guys came in from Ford with suites on for audits. One guy got fired, a lot of guys went from making 150k a year to 40k a year in one afternoon because they cut out all the warranty fraud.

It didn't affect me much because I was never one those "heavy hitters". I still remember the one guy saying that afternoon: "this means I'll have to sell the shore house".

swanicyouth said:

If your one of the "golden boys" fortune will smile on you with gravy work: brakes, struts, maintenance jobs, etc...What I posted is just my experience. Maybe my dealer was just crappy. I was there 7 years and stuck with it.

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I don't think it was just your dealer.

swanicyouth said:

I still remember all the warranty fraud that was going on there. Then, one day, 3 guys came in from Ford with suites on for audits. One guy got fired, a lot of guys went from making 150k a year to 40k a year in one afternoon because they cut out all the warranty fraud.

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I don't know how Ford handled it, but GM's warranty fraud problem was caused by paying a fixed labor rate for warranty, rather than the dealer's prevailing rate. The fixed rate was lower than most dealer's...so you know how many warranty repairs were done. Maybe that is backwards from what you are talking about, in the GM case the dealer would never do warranty repairs because they couldn't get their rate, so it was the customers getting fleeced, not GM. They changed that policy a long time ago.

Setec Astronomy said:

I don't think it was just your dealer.



I don't know how Ford handled it, but GM's warranty fraud problem was caused by paying a fixed labor rate for warranty, rather than the dealer's prevailing rate. The fixed rate was lower than most dealer's...so you know how many warranty repairs were done. Maybe that is backwards from what you are talking about, in the GM case the dealer would never do warranty repairs because they couldn't get their rate, so it was the customers getting fleeced, not GM. They changed that policy a long time ago.

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This was like just running fake time for fake repairs. We had one guy, "Roger" lets say his name is. He would be doing cash gravy work (shock, brakes, struts) which required no time punches to get paid.

So, he would see that car was still under "bumper to bumper" warranty. He would then come up with some phony baloney problem, like he noticed all the dash lights were not working.

Then, he would punch for what was called Ford "M-Time" (non standard diagnostic and repair times). It would be something like: "dash light n/a. Check fuses. OK. Pull steering wheel, pull all lower trim. Remove dash assembly. Check wiring. Trace wire(s). Found open in circuit. Repair wiring. Re-test/ re-assemble all. Ok"... 7.2 hours punched & paid.

Meanwhile he was also getting paid for cash time and did none of that work. There was no electrical problem. But, you had to make it look good and charge out some parts for repair. So, he would go to parts with the ticket and charge out some butt connectors and wire on the ticket. He had a drawer in his tool box with thousands of butt connectors.

This "electrical" story played out so much, the "butt connector and wiring" even had a name in the parts dept, it was called a "Rog kit". When someone was running fake time chasing electrical problems that didn't exist on a ticket, they would always go to parts and have a "Rog kit" charged to the ticket.

We also had the issue of cash time was one thing, warranty time was another (similar to GM?). You may get paid 2.8 hours to do front brakes and rotors cash on a Bronco 4x4, but under warranty you were lucky to squeak by with an hour. So, guys would say the axle seals were leaking to add a few hours to the job if it was warranty, sometimes cash as well.

I could have PM'ed you all this, but put it here so the OP can see what he *may* be getting into. Man I don't miss that and haven't thought about it in a while.

I still remember we had this guy called "the dispatcher" who handed out work. So, if "the dispatcher" liked you, you would get good work. So, guys would bring him coffee and doughnuts in the morning almost as a bribe. They would bring him lunch, cases of beer, fix his car for free, etc... "One hand washes the other" was the system. That's the politics I'm talking about.

Luckily that "dispatcher" was behind a glass window. I think a lot of guys would have punched him out if he wasn't.

Yes, but I guess where this kind of thing permeates all workplaces, is that the "golden boy" mechanic who also was getting flagged for fake repairs was also probably a good mechanic, who the boss could count on for complicated jobs, so the boss would look the other way or repay him with "gravy" work. Just like at some jobs there is the guy who can come in late or talk back to the boss because he has some special skill, etc.

I can only imagine what it must be like at dealers today, where it's so hard to make money on the new cars because of the internet, and they have to make all their money in the service and body shop. Then they put the service writers and parts guys on commission so they are just as interested in unnecessary repairs as the flat rate mechanics...and what a mess.