Blackfire Pait Coating Smearing...Help!

Desertnate

Desertnate

Active member
Joined
Aug 5, 2013
Messages
5,950
Reaction score
20
This afternoon after prepping my one of my cars, I started applying the Blackfire Crystal Coat Paint coating.

All went well on the first few panels, but then I noticed it started smearing really badly every time I tried to level the high spots. I didn't apply it any thinker than the first few areas, and in fact started applying it thinner in hopes this would resolve the issues. It didn't. I tried waiting longer, and that didn't help. Some areas I left for nearly 15 minutes with no joy. It's still smearing and now the car is a total mess. The humidty is around 85% right now, which I hope isn't the issue.

This is the only time I have with the car and need to fix it tonight. Hopefully some of the guru's are on this evening who can help.

Thanks!!
 
I used it recently in very high temps and humidity without any problems. When applying it I used the CarPro applicator with suede microfiber over it. I did change the suede microfiber a few times. Is it possible you were dragging partially cured product over the surface when applying?
 
This is clearly a case of the "coating crap-shoots". Sometimes you will get great results. Sometimes you won't. The problem could be anything of a million + 1 variables that aren't quite right.
 
DaveT435 said:
I used it recently in very high temps and humidity without any problems. When applying it I used the CarPro applicator with suede microfiber over it. I did change the suede microfiber a few times. Is it possible you were dragging partially cured product over the surface when applying?
Click to expand...

I don't think the applicator was the problem. Some areas the product would go on flawlessly. In other areas of the vehicle the product would start to cure almost instantly while I was spreading it causing smears before finishing the cross-hatch pattern. Other areas with a similar amount of product would go on just fine, but never flash or give any indication it was safe to level out. The product wouldn't self level...it would just sit there like I was spreading apoxy and become just about as sticky. The towel would actually stick to the product.

There were also issues trying to level it. I'd apply the coating, wait a minute or so...and it would smear when I'd start to get rid of the high spots. I'd wait another minute thinking the humidity was to blame, and it's still smearing. Wait another minute or two...and it would smear and then harden instantly.

FUNX650 said:
Just curious...
What all did you do to prep the car?

And...
Was this the last prep-product,
prior to the Coating application:
BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep


Bob
Click to expand...

The car was washed, clayed, and polished with Meguiars UP. I then applied the Blackfire Paint Prep liberally all over the vehicle to make sure the surface was as sterile as possible.

swanicyouth said:
This is clearly a case of the "coating crap-shoots". Sometimes you will get great results. Sometimes you won't. The problem could be anything of a million + 1 variables that aren't quite right.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm afraid of. Conditions very so much I'll never get the same results twice and there isn't much use in experimenting. The sad part is I got varying results on the SAME CAR while trying to apply it.

I really hope the product is even half as durable as it claims. If it goes a year, I'll be happy and keep trying to perfect the application. Any less, and I'm going back to Klasse SG or Collinte 845. They all look about the same, easily last 6 months, and aren't nearly as finicky to apply. I never thought I'd say something was more finicky than Klasse...

UPDATE: In the end, I grunted it out and was able to get rid of most of the high spots and hardened smears with brute force. I just hope I didn't remove most of the product.

As already mentioned, I'd put the looks in the Klasse or 845 area, but it does darken the paint in ways neither of the other two will. I did notice some uneven darkening in streaks in some areas and a mottled appearance in others. Not sure what's going on there.

I'd still love to hear some ideas on what I may have done to cause these bizarre results, so I don't repeat my mistakes. I think if I could have just got it to apply consistently and then figure out the right timing for buffing out the high spots, I'll be golden.
 
Have you tried a new applicator to rule out something on the finish or dampness that might be slowing the curing process ??
 
I've had pretty consistent results from coatings. C1, EXO, 22ple. s for the Blackfire I'm not sure I've had it sitting around for months and the other day was the first time I've tried it. Fortunately I didn't have any problems. I put it on extremely thick.
 
killrwheels@autogeek said:
Have you tried a new applicator to rule out something on the finish or dampness that might be slowing the curing process ??
Click to expand...

I didn't think of that. I simply tried various amounts on the applicator to account for saturation. I bought the kit so I had a second one. I was scratching my problems up to either the humidity or not applying enough product. I never thought the applicator might be to blame.
 
DaveT435 said:
I've had pretty consistent results from coatings. C1, EXO, 22ple. s for the Blackfire I'm not sure I've had it sitting around for months and the other day was the first time I've tried it. Fortunately I didn't have any problems. I put it on extremely thick.
Click to expand...

What was the temperature when you applied it? I was in my garage, but temps were hovering around 90 with 80%+ humidity. After applying, how did you know when it was safe to level out the high spots?

Applying it thick did solve my application problems, but then I encountered the smearing issues when trying to buff out the high spots.

I'm sure the error is in my application or timing in the leveling process. If I could only figure out what they were and how the environment might effect what I do differently...
 
I have done 2 trucks and a car with the backfire coating. In the panhandle of florida the heat and humidity for the last 2 months have been insane, rains at least once a day. What worked for me was to spread it as thin as I could get it. Back and forth, up and down until I could only see very little product. Then I very gently hit it with a suede towel and then a carper boa. Each vehicle I used 5 suede applicators. This is what worked for me, don't know if it will work for you. Good thing about the BF coating is that I had plenty of time before it flashed. I did my harley in april when it was a lot cooler, with UK. That flashed almost instantly. It was almost a race with the UK.
 
I haven't used the BLACKFIRE coating, but when I use a prep polish (DG and Pinnacle is what I've had experience with), I apply it very sparingly., about the same amount as if I were putting on a sealant.
 
After polishing, did you wipe the entire car down with the BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep as mentioned by FUNX650? This is a required step to ensure proper bonding. The reason I ask is because you stated that you polished and went straight to coating. You do not want to apply a coating while there are still polishing oils on the paint. Hope you get this sorted out.
 
Desertnate said:
I don't think the applicator was the problem. Some areas the product would go on flawlessly. In other areas of the vehicle the product would start to cure almost instantly while I was spreading it causing smears before finishing the cross-hatch pattern. Other areas with a similar amount of product would go on just fine, but never flash or give any indication it was safe to level out. The product wouldn't self level...it would just sit there like I was spreading apoxy and become just about as sticky. The towel would actually stick to the product.

There were also issues trying to level it. I'd apply the coating, wait a minute or so...and it would smear when I'd start to get rid of the high spots. I'd wait another minute thinking the humidity was to blame, and it's still smearing. Wait another minute or two...and it would smear and then harden instantly.



The car was washed, clayed, and polished with Meguiars UP. I then applied the Blackfire Paint Prep liberally all over the vehicle to make sure the surface was as sterile as possible.



That's what I'm afraid of. Conditions very so much I'll never get the same results twice and there isn't much use in experimenting. The sad part is I got varying results on the SAME CAR while trying to apply it.

I really hope the product is even half as durable as it claims. If it goes a year, I'll be happy and keep trying to perfect the application. Any less, and I'm going back to Klasse SG or Collinte 845. They all look about the same, easily last 6 months, and aren't nearly as finicky to apply. I never thought I'd say something was more finicky than Klasse...

UPDATE: In the end, I grunted it out and was able to get rid of most of the high spots and hardened smears with brute force. I just hope I didn't remove most of the product.

As already mentioned, I'd put the looks in the Klasse or 845 area, but it does darken the paint in ways neither of the other two will. I did notice some uneven darkening in streaks in some areas and a mottled appearance in others. Not sure what's going on there.

I'd still love to hear some ideas on what I may have done to cause these bizarre results, so I don't repeat my mistakes. I think if I could have just got it to apply consistently and then figure out the right timing for buffing out the high spots, I'll be golden.
Click to expand...

Desertnate said:
What was the temperature when you applied it? I was in my garage, but temps were hovering around 90 with 80%+ humidity. After applying, how did you know when it was safe to level out the high spots?

Applying it thick did solve my application problems, but then I encountered the smearing issues when trying to buff out the high spots.

I'm sure the error is in my application or timing in the leveling process. If I could only figure out what they were and how the environment might effect what I do differently...
Click to expand...

It was abou 95 degrees and about 70% humidity. When I finished a panel I would go over it gently with a flat weave towel to remove some of the excess, then follow with another flat weave towel about 30 seconds later. Almost like EXO application, only I could actually do a whole panel at one time.
The product was still wet when I did my initial wipe. I've found that instructions are pretty vague on a lot of coatings as to how long you should wait. I would rather have to put another coat on than fight with partially dried residue. The car I did it on belongs to a kid that lives across the street. He's going to wash it today. That will at least tell me if the entire car was coated and I didn't take it off too fast.
 
How long did you wait in between from wiping the surface down with the coating prep spray and going to the coating?

Im wondering with the higher humidity perhaps the paint prep spray may not have been fully flashed away after wiping before you started applying the coating.
 
Mike@DedicatedPerfection said:
How long did you wait in between from wiping the surface down with the coating prep spray and going to the coating?

Im wondering with the higher humidity perhaps the paint prep spray may not have been fully flashed away after wiping before you started applying the coating.
Click to expand...

I waited about 15 minutes between usage of the prep product and start of the application of the coating. Long enough to put all of the prep items away, grab the items needed for application of the coating and then give it a start. I'll also note the first panels I did turned out perfect and it went down hill from there. If the prep product had been to blame, I would have though there would be issues from the start.

I really appreciate the help from everyone on this.

Looking back, I think some of my application problems probably resulted from applying too little product which caused the applicator induced streaks which would never self level and appear to start drying while I was spreading it out.

With that out of the way, the remaining issue is timing to buff out the high spots. How do you know when to do it? Most of the time, the product seemed to have a tacky/sticky feel which would grab the towel and cause the smearing. If I waited for that phase to pass, it was starting to cure and REALLY hard to smooth out.

On a more positive note, after the curing was complete the next morning, the car did look pretty good. The paint (2010 Mazda Graphite Gray Metallic) was extremely smooth and had a deep glassy look to the surface. The shine was on par with Klasse SG...but had more depth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top