My experience w BF Ceramic Pro Black Edition

ntwillie1

ntwillie1

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2013
Messages
392
Reaction score
0
First, a little background. 6 months ago I got my C43. I polished and coated with CQuartz UK 3.0 and auto gliss 2.0. Outside of some clogging up during pollen season it performed amazing.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago and my wife hit a curb and so I needed a new bumper. I got the car back from the bodyshop 2 days ago and it is swirled up like crazy. How disappointing. They offered to polish it but I declined. So yesterday i spent hours polishing the paint using my Rupes, mf pads and wolfgang total swirl remover. I beleive I have acheived about 90% correction. At the moment the car looks amazing.

i then used the BF paint prep to remove all polishing oils.

This evening I started applying BF Pro Black Edition. It is approximately 64 degrees in my garage. My experience so far has not been pleasant. The coating is extremely tacky/sticky. I coated my trunk lid first and waited about 5 min. Upon removal it was extremely difficult and actually began to cure to the point that I will have to repolish the trunk. Next, I tried the B pillars. This time I waited 3 minutes. Still very very sticky and takes a lot of effort to remove. So much so that if my feels like I am marring the paint.

Next I tried a front quarter panel. And waited only 1 minute. This time it removes much easier but still very sticky. The “sweating” or beading of the coating to let you know its ready to be wiped is not very apparent.

i’m going to go ahead and complete the coating tonight but this is definitely not a user friendly coating in my opinion. Hopefully in a day or two I get some slickness because if its going to feel like this for the duration I will have to remove.

I was so excited to order this coating during the last 25% off sale but honestly I’m disappointed . I prefer Polish Angel Viking Coat or Cquartz UK 3.0 and Gliss 2.0 over this any day.

If anyone has any recommendations or tips please post. I tried calling autogeek but it was after 5pm so couldn’t get any advice.

oh yes, my car is polar white so extremely difficult to provide pics.
 
That sounds like a royal PITA, Will.

And not to tip the apple cart, but this is why I'm not into coatings.

The last thing I need to worry about on my DD truck after all the washing, decon, and polishing is the LSP being the biggest pain in my a$$.

All of you guys know me, and I'm not anti-coating. Just does not fit my needs at all. :)
 
Thanks Paul. It is a PITA at the moment. I’ll update when I’m done and then again a few days later but man I’m wishing I would have gotten something else right now.
 
Don’t you need to allow the freshly painted bumper some time before coating it?

I have no experience with the coating you mention but I had a not so good experience similar to what you described with McKee’s 37 v2 paint coating. Apparently it happened because the coating was partially cured in the bottle, even though it was new. The second time I thought about using it, it had turned into jelly.

After that I used Gyeon and CarPro coatings and those were so good I see no reason to try other brands. CarPro UK3 and Gliss v2 are incredible and aren’t expensive so that’s my choice for now.
 
BSoares said:
Don’t you need to allow the freshly painted bumper some time before coating it?

I have no experience with the coating you mention but I had a not so good experience similar to what you described with McKee’s 37 v2 paint coating. Apparently it happened because the coating was partially cured in the bottle, even though it was new. The second time I thought about using it, it had turned into jelly.

After that I used Gyeon and CarPro coatings and those were so good I see no reason to try other brands. CarPro UK3 and Gliss v2 are incredible and aren’t expensive so that’s my choice for now.
Click to expand...


Hi Brian, You are likely right about allowing it time to cure before coating. That said, if the body shop was willing to polish it to get the swirls out then I felt it was ok for me to polish out the swirls.

I agree 100% about CarPro UK3 and Gliss v2. They are incredible and I guess i fell for the marketing hype of Black Fire Ceramic Pro Black Edition. That "sweating" of the product when it's ready to be wiped off made me thing it would be an easy coating to work with. Anyway, my C43 has a Black Edition Kit on it so I guess i'm a sucker for those, lol. Although the ladder of the Black Editions I do love.

So to provide an update - I went ahead and completed the coating last night and only let the product sit on my paint 1 - 1.5 minutes. For those remaining panels I coated them twice, following a second coat immediately after the first. While allowing the product to sit for about a minute did make the removal process easier, I still feel it was way more difficult than it should have been.

This morning, i inspected the car and it does look glossy. Still tacky though. I'm hoping that characteristic disappears in a few days. I'll also wash the car in a week and see how hydrophobic it seems to me. if it doesn't perform to my expectation I may remove and just repolish the entire car and maybe put on a sealant for the winter and worry about it next spring. Just seems like a big waste of time for me. Thanks for chiming in.
 
Polishing right after painting is fine. What you can’t do is seal the paint before it cures, the solvents need to escape. So it’s normal for a body shop to sand/compound/polish but they’ll even tell you to not wax/seal for 30 to 60 days. I’m thinking a coating is even better at sealing and could give you some issues. Hopefully nothing will happen.
 
The swirls were likely from the body shop cleaning up wet sanding marks in which they use a rotary with a wool pad but don't go any farther than that.

If it was mine I would not seal it and let the paint gas out for a month. If the swirls bother you, correct them but leave it bare.

Even tho the paint feels dry to the touch it is still "soft" and likely the cause of some of your issues.
 
Ask your painted how long before you can add a wax, sealant or coating. Sometimes the paint can be coated within a few days. It all comes down to the body shop. Worst case you are polishing off what you just put on. But as mentioned a fresh paint job can be polished.
 
Yep, paint needs some time to outgas. I was talking online with someone who said even paints that are baked need some time to outgas.
 
98CayenneTA said:
The swirls were likely from the body shop cleaning up wet sanding marks in which they use a rotary with a wool pad but don't go any farther than that.

If it was mine I would not seal it and let the paint gas out for a month. If the swirls bother you, correct them but leave it bare.

Even tho the paint feels dry to the touch it is still "soft" and likely the cause of some of your issues.
Click to expand...

Hello. The only part that was painted was the front bumper. The issues w the coating started way before that on the trunk lid. And continued around the rest of the car.

I agree about letting the front bumper cure a little longer. The reason I didn’t wait longer for the front bumper paint to cure is because its getting cold here in the north east and the coating wont apply well once it gets cold. I may just polish it off and leave it alone.

In either case, 90% of the car has original factory paint and has experienced my issue w the coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It is possible the temp and humidity played a factor. Perhaps all you needed was to let it sit for 30 second if it was difficult the longer you let it sit. The other thing is you could have received a bad batch of product.
 
This sounds like the experience I have with Mckees Headlight coating now that it’s old. I added some IPA to it and it’s better but still not performing like new. I assume the BF bottle top was sealed properly when it arrived.

I also purchased this due to the price being too good to pass up recently. I wanted something to put on my parent’s car for the wi yet but won’t see them until November, so now I’m slightly concerned about what the temperature in my garage will be, and concerned due to your experience.
 
So you applied Cquartz UK to the whole car 6 months ago and you’ve just started applying and new coating to the whole car after only a wash. Do I have that right?

Was the bumper easier to coat than the trunk lid by any chance?
 
Hi Wristy. Thats right. I did remove the previous coating before applying the new. The bumper was no different than the rest of the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The Guz said:
It is possible the temp and humidity played a factor. Perhaps all you needed was to let it sit for 30 second if it was difficult the longer you let it sit. The other thing is you could have received a bad batch of product.
Click to expand...

Its possible that maybe it doesn’t need such a long working time. However that kills the benefit of being able to do a whole panel at once. Thats one of the reasons I picked this coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ntwillie1 said:
Its possible that maybe it doesn’t need such a long working time. However that kills the benefit of being able to do a whole panel at once. Thats one of the reasons I picked this coating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hard to say. Hopefully Mike or someone from AGO chimes in. I haven’t used any of the new AGO coatings.

Have you tried it on another painted surface that is not your car paint? For example another cars panel.
 
I recently was able to witness using this new BF coating and you waited a bit too long given your temp and humidity. The 5-minutes statement to sit was one extreme but can remove much earlier (less than one minute). That coating is HARD and is truly a pro-level coating. Apply very thin layers and remove earlier. In this case a test section would be suggested when using a product the first time.

I was able to feel that rubbery texture on a section we left untouched with no wipe off after 15-minutes. That was a test panel thankfully and was difficult to polish to remove, it is hard. On the test car, I used two other BF products as a topper, paint coating spray and the Surface coating, and each one gave a slicker feeling to the base BLACK coating. Again this was done shortly after the application so a proper cure time of 24- hours on the base layer was not in my experience.

Sorry to hear your disappointment, suggest calling or send email to AG. Perhaps this will help them update instructions or give warnings to do a test section for first time use.
 
It's interesting that in cool humid conditions it flashes so much quicker than what is provided in the product instructions. From my experience with CQuartz UK, both v2 and v3 flashing slowed in cool damp conditions, especially v3.0.

I've not used the Blackfire coating, but I'd be hesitant to leave any coating sit for 3~5 minutes unless I was very familiar with the product and it's behavior in the environment. Because lighting conditions, paint color, and climate are all major factors in the application experience, I tend to use the wipe-off behavior as my guide. Lighting/paint color may make flashing behavior impossible to see. Climate may take you way outside the removal time window recommended by the manufacturer. However, if you test a few small areas, you should be able to lock in a rough time frame where removal of the coating is easy and clean and doesn't smear. If you find it's smearing on removal, wait a touch longer. If it's hard to remove, remove a little earlier.
 
Thomkirby said:
I recently was able to witness using this new BF coating and you waited a bit too long given your temp and humidity. The 5-minutes statement to sit was one extreme but can remove much earlier (less than one minute). That coating is HARD and is truly a pro-level coating. Apply very thin layers and remove earlier. In this case a test section would be suggested when using a product the first time.

I was able to feel that rubbery texture on a section we left untouched with no wipe off after 15-minutes. That was a test panel thankfully and was difficult to polish to remove, it is hard. On the test car, I used two other BF products as a topper, paint coating spray and the Surface coating, and each one gave a slicker feeling to the base BLACK coating. Again this was done shortly after the application so a proper cure time of 24- hours on the base layer was not in my experience.

Sorry to hear your disappointment, suggest calling or send email to AG. Perhaps this will help them update instructions or give warnings to do a test section for first time use.
Click to expand...

Well said Kirby!

I personally find applying the BLACKFIRE Black Edition with a suede cloth makes it harder to use if you're looking for more working time (sweating). Because the suede cloth spreads the coating out SO THIN, it actually "rainbow flashes" and behaves like a normal coating. If applying it with this type of applicator, let it sit for 30-60 seconds and wipe off.

I typically use the Blue Microfiber Coating Applicators that we sell to apply that coating - Blue Microfiber Coating Applicator. I find these to spread the coating out in a thicker layer. When applied thicker, it allows it to form sweating more from what I have seen personally. It actually flashes like a normal coating for the first 30 seconds or so but then dissipates and the sweating feature kicks in.

In our air conditioned garage, I have applied the coating and let it sit for different increments of time just to see how the wipe off would be. I did 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, and even 40 minutes before wiping off. After 5 minutes it does become sticky to remove but can still be wiped off with a tight napped towel. Around 10 minutes it took a lot of rubbing but was still able to get a good bit off. After 10 minutes, it wasn't wiping off. In Kirby's class we let it sit for around 40 minutes and they ended up having to use a Griots Garage G8, Buff and Shine Uro-Tech Maroon cutting pad, and Griots Garage Fast Correcting Creme and many passes to get it off. That was just after only 40 minutes! INSANE, imagine a 24 hour cure time, really shows how durable this coating really is!

However, anything before 5 minutes seemed to wipe off no problem for me. I find this coating unique because you wipe it off "wet" essentially which is kind of nice because you can really see what area you're wiping off easily. Other coatings flash and the layer is so thin, sometimes it's hard to tell if you missed a spot and need a good light to really double check your wipe off.

The coating itself will be more of a "rubbery" feel to it after wipe off but that is just the nature of this high solids coating that is really designed for the ultimate durability. It won't feel as slippery feeling as like Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Surface Coating but will certainly outlast it! I found the hydrophobic properties extremely amazing with this coating as well. You can use products such as SiO2 Spray Sealants over the coating and they will help with making it more slick.

I will have them update our directions and copy about the rainbow flash and also about the flash time. When working with this coating in air conditioning, I truly believe you have an "up to" a 5 minute working time from the testing that I've done. I even recorded a video of wipe off round a 5 minute time frame to show people how easy it still wipes off and how the sweating looks. BUT when working in high humidity/heat, definitely would cut down on the flash time and treat it like a normal coating: 30-60 second flash time.

Only thing I can think of for the coating to be acting up as it did was these: the coating used 6 months prior was not fully compounded/removed off. Or possibly the temperature may have been just a tad "too cold" possibly if it was in the low 60's (have not seen how this coating reacts in colder climates). We usually have the AC around 72 in our garage. It could possibly have been a bad bottle but have not heard of this ourselves at this time. If you call me at 772-247-3502, I can send you some of the microfiber applicators I talked about and a new bottle and you can give it another go if you'd like.
 
Andre said:
Well said Kirby!

I personally find applying the BLACKFIRE Black Edition with a suede cloth makes it harder to use if you're looking for more working time (sweating). Because the suede cloth spreads the coating out SO THIN, it actually "rainbow flashes" and behaves like a normal coating. If applying it with this type of applicator, let it sit for 30-60 seconds and wipe off.

I typically use the Blue Microfiber Coating Applicators that we sell to apply that coating - Blue Microfiber Coating Applicator. I find these to spread the coating out in a thicker layer. When applied thicker, it allows it to form sweating more from what I have seen personally. It actually flashes like a normal coating for the first 30 seconds or so but then dissipates and the sweating feature kicks in.
Click to expand...

Andre: Just a thought.

If the recommendation is to use the MF applicator pads, you might want to change how the kits are sold for the BF coatings. Both the Black Edition Pro Coating (BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating BLACK EDITION Application Kit) and the Pro Coating (BLACKFIRE Pro Ceramic Coating Kit) come with the suede cloths and applicator pad like other coatings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top