Attention Pinnacle Black Label fans...

I know there's been much discussion here of the variety of shortcomings of natural waxes. And what some of the advantages of synthetic sealants, and coatings bring to the table.

I've also read the observations of shortcomings of synthetics here and there also.

Some have said that chip damage can possibly be more severe with a synthetic versus a wax. It appears a wax product with solvents somehow softens, and nurtures the paint, lessening the severity of a errant rock-etc.

With that said, I assume many coatings, and sealants don't possess this quality, the paint may be sealed with a product, but is such as healthy for a paint long term?

Couldn't the same be said about leather, that a form of sealant might protect against spill damage, or dye transfer, etc, but what about the nourishment of the leather itself?

That even if one chooses to then use a wax over a sealant, or a coating, such as the "Ice over Fire" that many like, does the wax then actually penetrate through the sealant to somehow nourish-feed the paint?

Which brings it all in a nutshell then, "do modern paints benefit from the solvents-carriers in natural wax products versus being sealed-coated"?
Without being periodically "fed", are they possibly more susceptible to premature failure, or ageing?

With that question tabled, then what about older paint systems on vintage vehicles which were of course at one time solvent based?

Hope no one has minded these questions-observations of mine, and hoping they are seen as constructive-productive to this thread.
Mark
 
I see the lost of slick over time with PBL coating. I wonder if it's true about protection up to 3 years as in description?

just because slickness is gone, doesn't mean your protection is.....just sayin':xyxthumbs:
 
Gonna Pick up the Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Coating Booster
autogeek_2270_81


Figure that if the Coating does start losing that slick feeling over time and just as any enthusiast does with a touch up wax coating or spray wax touch up. Mine as well have something to touch up the coating from time to time.. Even though I am looking forward to the use of this coating I just can't see myself washing the car and then saying ok all finished up.

ON the other hand I will prob not be picking up the Coating detailer unless it goes on BOGO at some point.. a bit expensive for me for 8 oz.

Also considering picking up the carpro reload while it's on bogo to do a little comparision..

But I'm new to all of the coatings and this is my first go round. some of the postings above have brought up some good questions and points that give me a little worry to the products longevity.. Either way I look forward to reading more info on this coating and hope to share a review soon myself after FL returns to around 65 degrees plus hopefully in the next few weeks.
 
Yep...agreed if PBL booster, detail or shampoo are with BOGO

Maintenance kit within 8 oz is too expensive for 100 bucks

This morning I did sealant and wax another car.... like other guys..still loving to do it compared to coating...even i have 2 of them under "coating", it's just me, isn't it? lol
 
To answer the commonly asked questions in this thread:

These products are not a "band aid" for a possible "short coming" of a PBL coating or ANY coating for that matter. As an Auto Geek, we have a difficult time leaving our vehicles alone - as in it's impossible to do something to them and leave it be.

These two products are the first of their type that offer users of coatings a way to further enhance the finish.

Just like a wax or sealant, a coating slowly degrades, which is why most of them (Opti-Coat being the exclusion) have a durability rating of X amount of years. Just like you use Crystal Mist with Souveran, or Wet Diamond Polymer Spray with Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection, these products are designed to maintain the gloss, slickness, and protection of the coating.

What a spray wax is to carnauba waxes, Diamond Coating Booster is to coatings.

What a spray detailer is to carnauba waxes, Diamond Coating Detailer is to coatings.

Understand?

Our goal with these two products was to provide a solution to the commonly asked question after someone coats their vehicle, and that's what do I do now?

:dblthumb2:
 
Understand?

Yep, got it. ;)

And yet another "kit" has already been ordered. :D
 
So, when is the black label rinseless and waterless wash coming out?

My collection of 600gsm microfibers is clambering for some nano-ceramic particle lovin'.
 
I'm a current paint coating user and couldn't be happier with what its done for me this brutal winter but it seems these coatings have a rating of 2-3 yrs right now and ofcoarse the deteriorate over time like stated earlier. That said, I see nothing wrong with adding to the shine but since PBL is supposed to outshine all the others, how could you see the difference. I'm not putting down the product but rather asking.

I've been using AW and my "FrankenDetailer" which has KSG infused into it and couldn't be happier with how my coating looks.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
Is the "Booster" only for coatings in the diamond line or any of the other coatings AG sells?

Diamond Coating Detailer would be a better fit, as it is water-based. Diamond Coating Booster won't adhere to the waxed surface all that well.



If you don't follow directions with any product, what kind of results should you expect?

Think of Diamond Coating Booster as a spray-wax for coated surfaces. It's not designed to pick up any slack, but to add more shine and increase the length of protection provided by the underlying coating.

It is also compatible with ALL coatings - Black Label, DP, Opti-Coat, Cquartz, etc.
 
Is the "Booster" only for coatings in the diamond line or any of the other coatings AG sells?

It said early in the thread that this can work with ANY coating out there and even listed the competitors.
 
I know there's been much discussion here of the variety of short comings of natural waxes. And what some of the advantages of synthetic sealants, and coatings bring to the table.

I've also read the observations of shortcomings of synthetics here and there also.

Some have said that chip damage can possibly be more severe with a synthetic versus a wax. It appears a wax product with solvents somehow softens, and nurtures the paint, lessening the severity of a errant rock-etc.

With that said, I assume many coatings, and sealants don't possess this quality, the paint may be sealed with a product, but is such as healthy for a paint long term?

Couldn't the same be said about leather, that a form of sealant might protect against spill damage, or dye transfer, etc, but what about the nourishment of the leather itself?

That even if one chooses to then use a wax over a sealant, or a coating, such as the "Ice over Fire" that many like, does the wax then actually penetrate through the sealant to somehow nourish-feed the paint?

Which brings it all in a nutshell then, "do modern paints benefit from the solvents-carriers in natural wax products versus being sealed-coated"?
Without being periodically "fed", are they possibly more susceptible to premature failure, or ageing?

With that question tabled, then what about older paint systems on vintage vehicles which were of course at one time solvent based?

Hope no one has minded these questions-observations of mine, and hoping they are seen as constructive-productive to this thread.
Mark

This is interesting, I've not heard any of this before. Is it an older topic debated about when using sealants, updated for coatings?

Of course I don't have any science to back this statement up, but were the above mentioned premise true, I would think it would have more to do with the paint and clear being now sandwiched between 2 more rigid coating of primer and now coating, both of which are now tugging at the paint, and clear, and maybe even expand and contact at differing rates. Lower or higher temp ranges could indeed contribute to how much stress is already on the paint from both sides, and incoming projectiles could have a greater impact.

I have noticed an up tick in chips this winter, but construction and road sand has been much higher than average this year, as well as the temps being significantly lower. so I cannot conclusively blame any one variable. Indeed, I reported on road chips in a thread before I added the coating I currently have on, prior to that, I had about 5 ageing coats of Klasse sealant glaze on there. That worked through the previous winter with no up tick in chips to speak of.
 
So, when is the black label rinseless and waterless wash coming out?

My collection of 600gsm microfibers is clambering for some nano-ceramic particle lovin'.


IN for these two products :props:

Are these coming Nick?
 
I'm a current paint coating user and couldn't be happier with what its done for me this brutal winter but it seems these coatings have a rating of 2-3 yrs right now and ofcoarse the deteriorate over time like stated earlier. That said, I see nothing wrong with adding to the shine but since PBL is supposed to outshine all the others, how could you see the difference. I'm not putting down the product but rather asking.

I've been using AW and my "FrankenDetailer" which has KSG infused into it and couldn't be happier with how my coating looks.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online

Just like a wax, a coating slowly begins to degrade over time. Just like you use a spray wax on a waxed vehicle, Diamond Coating Booster and Diamond Coating Detailer are designed to maintain the finish. The keyword with these types of products is maintain.

Maintain is defined as "care for, keep up"

:dblthumb2:

IN for these two products :props:

Are these coming Nick?

Anything is possible!
 
Interesting read...


I'm not 100% sure but outside of any testing Nick and other employees did before the launch of the Black Label coatings, I think I documented the first complete whole car applications of the Black Label coatings before they went public.

Note: Black Label was announced at SEMA which takes place the first week of November each year.



Black Label Diamond Paint Coating

Date: Wednesday, October 2nd 2013
Lady in Red - 1986 Porsche - 4-Step Process

1986_Porsche_Mike_Phillips_058.jpg




(Asked the owner just last Friday how the paint was looking on the Porsche and he said like the day he picked it up)



Black Label Diamond Surface Coating

Date: Thursday October 24th, 2013
2006 Mercedes-Benz SLK 350 Show Car Makeover Pictures
2006_SLK_350_095.jpg





Black Label Diamond Paint Coating

Date: Thursday October 17th, 2013
Candy Apple 1955 Ford F100 with Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
(This was only to the front clip, hood and fenders, no time for the cab and truck bed due to filming a TV show)

1955_Ford_F150_019.jpg








Since SEMA we have applied the Black Label Diamond Paint Coating to two Thursday night project cars.



Black Label Diamond Paint Coating

2013 Dodge Charger - Black Label Diamond Paint Coating- New Rupes Polishers - Pictures & Video

Date: November 14th, 2003

Rupes_Duetto_033.jpg








Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
Date: Thursday, November 21st, 2013
Ready for the Mud!

Rupes_Coating_Monster_Truck_045.jpg





And I have applied the Black Label Diamond Paint Coating to 3 cars I have privately detailed.



Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
Date: Saturday, November 15th, 2013
Black Label Diamond Paint Coating on a 2012 Mercedes-Benz E350

2012_Mercedes_Benz_017.jpg




Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
Date: Saturday, December 13th, 2013
How long to wait before waxing a brand new car?

2014_Mercedes_Benz_E350_012.jpg




Black Label Diamond Paint Coating
Date: Saturday, December 30th, 2013
2014 Black Mercedes-Benz E350 detailed by Mike Phillips

2014_Mercedes_Benz_E350_0008.jpg




So after documenting the above, that is cars I've either buffed out and coated or helped to buff out and coat, the first thing that came to my mind after applying the Paint Coating and the Surface Coating to full cars, (so that would be the red Porsche and the silver Mercedes-Benz SLK 350), was...


I need something to maintain these cars...


In the case of the Porsche, I need and want something for the owner of the Porsche to use to take care of the finish.


The two natural products would be a spray detailer and a spray "wax" except instead of a waxy substance, the spray-on product would need to be chemically similar to the coating.


The two products would need to offer synergistic chemical compatibility as well as be synergistic chemically beneficial. That is similar in chemical make-up.

And the biggest reason why is because after doing all the preparation steps, correction steps, polishing and prepping steps and then finally applying the coatings, I want something that is going to maintain both the results and all the hard work, time and energy that goes behind projects like the above.

To me it seems like a no-brainer. Sure you could maintain the coatings with any spray detailer or any spray wax or spray sealant and when it's your car do as you will.

But for me and my cars and my customer's cars I want to keep everything in the chemical family so to speak. Again, I did the work steps. The cars didn't prep and polish themselves out.


I washed Stacy's SLK on Sunday before the football game and now I'm going to start maintaining it with the Pinnacle Black Label Coating Booster and keep the Pinnacle Black Label Coating Detailer in the Autogeek Detail Bag in the trunk so she can keep the dust off or remove any fresh contaminants.

After washing and drying the finish still looks great but nothing the crisp just waxed look comes from doing something as a part of regular maintenance if you really want this look. It's not that the coatings don't last a long time but to put things in the anal retentive analogy because that fits best for a segment of car enthusiasts that hang out on car detailing forums...

Will the appearance value of a coated car get better and better with time with no maintenance?



The answer is "no" and what's the opposite of better and better?


FWIW

:)
 
Well said as usual Mike and although I'm not currently using the PBL coating I can say that without a doubt that coatings are the way to go! I applied mine in November so its only been a couple monthes but in that time my car has endured VERY HARSH conditions such as lots of snow, PLENTY of salt and record actual below zero temps and dangerous windchills. Now its true that I park inside when I get home and have been taking advantage of maintence washes and a couple applications of AW and CG's Blitz, along with "FrankenDetailer" but the car has been outside for the rest and everytime I wash the car the paint is smooth and clarity is amazing!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
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