So they say coatings need bare paint to bond to ...

PiPUK said:
The beading should not really be a strong function of the surface not having been corrected fully. For the most part, the beading is down to the chemistry of the coating/sealant/wax, not anything to do with the underlying surface. In actual fact, microscopically rough surfaces will give the most significant beading - it is called the lotus effect.

The matter of cleanliness is to minimise the risk of problems. You can still get bonding but one cannot be certain, nor could one be certain that there would be other issues, whether it is spreading, coverage or whatever. So, sure you can apply without all the cleanliness and it may well work perfectly well, but it is impossible to test all possibilities with regards to what contamination is present so the results could not be guaranteed. That alone is why the manufacturers make the recommendations they do.
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Thank you for chipping in sir. Your insight in always appreciated.
 
So quick update. Finally gave the Jeep the first bath since applying the PBL. It's been two weeks since then and honesly I don't know what to think. We've gotten a few rain storms in that time and the car has beaded up just fine. However after washing my car it seems as if the coating is already failing :(

After doing the wheels and tires I foamed her down with some Honeydew. Dew the dew!



After I rinsed off the foam I noticed that the hood wasn't beading, it was just pooling up water and looking like there was no LSP on the paint.



However I waited a few minutes and then the beading returned. Thought that was pretty strange.



So I was thinking the surfactants in the Honeydew may have killed the beading. But the roof which has Opti Coat 2.0 on it for over a year now beaded up just fine after I rinsed off the foam.

Moving on to the wash the paint did not feel very slick. I had a hard time drying the water off with my leaf blower. All signs point to the coating not being there. So I decided to put a coat of reload on half the car to hopefully salvage the detail. The passenger side, including half the hood got reload. We got some rain this morning.

PBL? plus reload looks like this





And the PBL side looks like this





Not gonna lie I did use some UWW+ as a drying aid so that may be doing some of the beading on the PBL side. I was thinking of drying that side off and then doing an eraser wipe down to remove any traces of the UWW+ and then compare the beading again because we are expected to get some more rain this afternoon.

Do you guys think eraser will be strong enough to remove anything the UWW+ leaves behind?
 
Went ahead and dried off the PBL only side of the hood. Then I did two Eraser wipe downs followed by a final IPA wipe down for good measure.



Got some rain shortly after. Low and behold something is still beading ..

 
dpk20x said:
Went ahead and dried off the PBL only side of the hood. Then I did two Eraser wipe downs followed by a final IPA wipe down for good measure.



Got some rain shortly after. Low and behold something is still beading ..

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^^^Pretty Cool!!^^^ :props:

•Wondering if you would do me a favor?
-Next time you wash the hood...and then after going through your rinsing/drying process...you again discover the water beading is not up to par when the hood is then re-wetted:
-Would you be so kind to perform another wipe-down rinse using hot water and hot drying towels on 1/2 the hood?

-Be very interested in seeing if the water-beading will reappear, without having to go through any of the Eraser/IPA wipe-downs.

TIA.


BOB
 
For you Bob ... of course! :dblthumb2:

I don't have a hot water spicket. So hopefully hot water out of a spray bottle will do the trick. I'll keep you updated.
 
I like that you are testing out of the norm. However; you should wash the surface with a plain soap that contains no wax or gloss agents. And don't use UWW+ as a drying agent. I feel you will them get a true measure of longevity with what you are trying to do.
 
Sicktred08fsi said:
I like that you are testing out of the norm. However; you should wash the surface with a plain soap that contains no wax or gloss agents. And don't use UWW+ as a drying agent. I feel you will them get a true measure of longevity with what you are trying to do.
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I've been thinking about that. When winter comes I'm gonna be forced to do rinseless washes. So im gonna have to presoak with either ONR or UWW+ anyways. Not sure how Im gonna get around that.
 
Nice thread. From what I can see, UWW+ does a nice work as waterless on coated with PBL cars.

However, the 'protection' it leaves 'hinders' a bit the coating properties, because the top layer 'acting against' dirt and water will actually be the UWW+ layer.

That said, if left unwashed for ~a month, when washing, it may look 'beading and even sheeting were killed', but it's just a matter of rinsing well and wash to remove the dirt layer, at the final rinse you should have a normally beading / sheeting surface.

Beading or not, the greatest sign that a coating still working is when you 'pass your finger' very gently over a dirt spot and you notice although there's a THICK dirt layer, it's not sticked to the coating (beware passing fingers over dirty cars to avoid scratching).

Everything you use as drying aid with a coating may have the same effect, leaving a layer that will repel things generally worse than the actual coating.

For me, the better washing I can make to maintain coated cars either use a strong soap (like Hyper Wash), to leave surface squeaky clean, or the actual PBL Coating Shampoo (I'm totally sold on this Soap!!!, too bad it's expensive for general use).

*The 'light soap' approach generally used to maintain waxed cars is not the protocol I use with coated cars (not always).

The cleaner you put your coating (sometimes you can even clay it!), the more beading / sheeting you may have. Coatings 'like to act' clean, uncontaminated.

As drying aid, PBL Booster or the Detailer is also all I should use to maintain PBL characteristics. By the way, Reload is something I like as well.

Reset soap from CarPro looks like an interesting option for coatings.

Iron-x also cleans the coating very nice when heavy cleaning is needed, without adding any mechanical marring like you risk when claying.

I may use the booster after a thorough cleansing like this cited with Iron-X.

Just $0.02, looking forward more updates on your testing.

I liked your eraser experience, and Bob's suggestion for warm water. May try them at some time.

Kind Regards.
 
Tato said:
Nice thread. From what I can see, UWW+ does a nice work as waterless on coated with PBL cars.

However, the 'protection' it leaves 'hinders' a bit the coating properties, because the top layer 'acting against' dirt and water will actually be the UWW+ layer.

That said, if left unwashed for ~a month, when washing, it may look 'beading and even sheeting were killed', but it's just a matter of rinsing well and wash to remove the dirt layer, at the final rinse you should have a normally beading / sheeting surface.

Beading or not, the greatest sign that a coating still working is when you 'pass your finger' very gently over a dirt spot and you notice although there's a THICK dirt layer, it's not sticked to the coating (beware passing fingers over dirty cars to avoid scratching).

Everything you use as drying aid with a coating may have the same effect, leaving a layer that will repel things generally worse than the actual coating.

For me, the better washing I can make to maintain coated cars either use a strong soap (like Hyper Wash), to leave surface squeaky clean, or the actual PBL Coating Shampoo (I'm totally sold on this Soap!!!, too bad it's expensive for general use).

*The 'light soap' approach generally used to maintain waxed cars is not the protocol I use with coated cars (not always).

The cleaner you put your coating (sometimes you can even clay it!), the more beading / sheeting you may have. Coatings 'like to act' clean, uncontaminated.

As drying aid, PBL Booster or the Detailer is also all I should use to maintain PBL characteristics. By the way, Reload is something I like as well.

Reset soap from CarPro looks like an interesting option for coatings.

Iron-x also cleans the coating very nice when heavy cleaning is needed, without adding any mechanical marring like you risk when claying.

I may use the booster after a thorough cleansing like this cited with Iron-X.

Just $0.02, looking forward more updates on your testing.

I liked your eraser experience, and Bob's suggestion for warm water. May try them at some time.

Kind Regards.
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Thanks for all the tips Tato and Im glad your following along. I know you're kind of the resident expert around here when it comes to the PBL coating.
 
MattPersman said:
You could wash with d114
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Yeah that's certainly an option. And if someone would like to send me a free sample Ill gladly use it. Otherwise I have about a five year supply of ONR and UWW+ that I need to use up first!
 
dpk20x said:
Yeah that's certainly an option. And if someone would like to send me a free sample Ill gladly use it. Otherwise I have about a five year supply of ONR and UWW+ that I need to use up first!
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I know it's hard to NOT use UWW+! I couldn't imagine being without it. :)
 
The Critic said:
OP - can we get an update?
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Of course I've been putting this off for a while. Long story short it did not go well!

I'd say after a month at the most the amigo had worn off and all the swirls and ugliness returned. Any protection that remained was minimal. It still beaded a little bit but it was quickly fading. I couldn't take it any more so I had to top it with a spray wax.
 
spiralout462 said:
I know it's hard to NOT use UWW+! I couldn't imagine being without it. :)
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Ain't that the truth! I did manage to score some D114 in a trade however. It's good but certainly not as good as UWW+
 
dpk20x said:
Now as far as PBL's reported 3 year durability .. I think that may be a little generous. I have a hard time believing this would outlast something like CQuartz UK. But its only been on the market for about a year. So maybe 2 years from now somebody can come forward with proof of the 3 year durability claims.
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durability claims are always to be taken lightly. there doesn't really seem to be a benchmark as to exactly what technically constitutes whether a product is still actively protecting the paint or not. And whereas you or i might consider durability to be up until a product starts to fail noticeably, manufacturers keep counting the days until the product has failed completely, over the entire vehicle. As long as an area of product remains, its counted, and thats a big difference in real terms
 
Curious as to how this test might fair if it was just clean paint.

Not necessarily super-prepped with a cleansing polish, IPA or Eraser wipedown, but also not inhibited by a glaze underneath.

It's been my experience that a glaze will even reduce the life span of a sealant, much less a coating.

Perhaps a rubdown with a nanoskin fine grade mitt or clay bar and then go to the coating. Maybe even a less oily polish like M205 and straight to coat after buff off.

Curious as to what that would produce. I'm kind of leaning toward the belief that these particular coatings are more like "Super Sealants" as I've had a bottle of Surface coating for over a year now and it hasn't hardened up. No way CQuartz or OptiCoat would last like that in a spray bottle.
 
aim4squirrels said:
Curious as to how this test might fair if it was just clean paint.

Not necessarily super-prepped with a cleansing polish, IPA or Eraser wipedown, but also not inhibited by a glaze underneath.

It's been my experience that a glaze will even reduce the life span of a sealant, much less a coating.

Perhaps a rubdown with a nanoskin fine grade mitt or clay bar and then go to the coating. Maybe even a less oily polish like M205 and straight to coat after buff off.

Curious as to what that would produce. I'm kind of leaning toward the belief that these particular coatings are more like "Super Sealants" as I've had a bottle of Surface coating for over a year now and it hasn't hardened up. No way CQuartz or OptiCoat would last like that in a spray bottle.
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I don't know. They say EXO isn't any good after 2 months in the refrigerator. I've got part of a bottle I have left in the fridge for 7 months now. In my opinion if it's an sit tight container and climate controlled environment if it hasn't gone bad in two months it's not going to. Hoping some with more science education will chime in.

my thought is what makes a product go bad is the solvents turning to gas and escaping. In an air tight container only so much is going to turn to gas before the oxygen is gone at which time the evaporation process should stop. At 30 days I would say this process should complete in my mind, but they say it's good for two months.

As long as the cap is screwed down as tightly as it is at the factory and in a climate controlled area why does it go bad???

Sorry to the OP for getting a little off topic.
 
aim4squirrels said:
Curious as to how this test might fair if it was just clean paint.

Not necessarily super-prepped with a cleansing polish, IPA or Eraser wipedown, but also not inhibited by a glaze underneath.

It's been my experience that a glaze will even reduce the life span of a sealant, much less a coating.

Perhaps a rubdown with a nanoskin fine grade mitt or clay bar and then go to the coating. Maybe even a less oily polish like M205 and straight to coat after buff off.

Curious as to what that would produce. I'm kind of leaning toward the belief that these particular coatings are more like "Super Sealants" as I've had a bottle of Surface coating for over a year now and it hasn't hardened up. No way CQuartz or OptiCoat would last like that in a spray bottle.
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Not to discount your experience in any way, I am sure the different glazes have different effects.

Todd Cooperider suggests that use of a CG EZ Glaze actually increases the bonding between the sealant and the vehicle:

"I was introduced to Chemical Guys EZ Creme Glaze by DJ Mayo of Reflections Detailing, and am very glad that he did. I use it as a paint surface cleaner after polishing, and it preps the paint so that your sealant or wax can bond for maximum durability. For quick details where polishing isn’t involved, you can wash the car, then apply EZ Creme Glaze, and then finally top it with your favorite wax or sealant. You’ll be left with a high gloss and slick finish. I apply it with a PC on speed 5 or 6 with a black or blue pad, and can typically finish the entire application in about 20 minutes. Residue removal couldn’t be easier!"

I do not know if this is because of the cleaners in the EZ

Maybe the properties of the EZ, being acrylic has something to do with it?


I have used EZ under Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant with great results in longevity and visual appeal
 
True. I believe Amigo is supposed to be acrylic as well.

I thought others have done durability tests with Amigo in the past and the conclusion was it does not have much if any negative impact on the LSPs longevity.
 
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