coatings useless or fantastic? what do you think??

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So the question begs to be asked now...

Which coatings are good, aveerage and not worth it:confused:

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So the question begs to be asked now...

Which coatings are good, aveerage and not worth it:confused:

Aren't they all worth it? We're just splitting hairs here like we do with everything else. Some of this is going to be tradeoffs between application factors and properties (durability vs. slickness, etc), some will be brand loyalty, etc.

While we're at it, which waxes are good, average, and not worth it?
 
So the question begs to be asked now...

Which coatings are good, aveerage and not worth it:confused:
The below description constitutes what I would call
a definition of a "True Coating":
I don't know what others are using as their base tech but our coating is permanent. That isn't 2 year or 4 years,

that means we cannot get it off again.
Ok, that is going too far but, practically speaking, it is dangerous to remove.


Try and take it off and you can end up messing up the paint, such is the level of abrasion necessary. You practically need to wet sand it.


Bob
 
Without going back to find it, which coating is this:confused:

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To those who do not use/believe in using coatings on the paint, do you still feel they're beneficial for wheels?
 
To those who do not use/believe in using coatings on the paint, do you still feel they're beneficial for wheels?

While I am not the one your are asking, since I use a coating on every car I detail, I couldn't find 1 reason why anyone shouldn't use a coating in this day and age on the exterior.

Would you not choose 4x4 over rear wheel drive to do offroading?

To me the difference is that substantial.

Do you know what happens to paint with wax or sealant on it when it is bombarded with bird poop? The bird #### is so acidic, that it can etch the paint in no time. So when that happens, that panel needs to be redone and if you are lucky, the poop didn't etch through the clear. If you are lucky. If it is summer time and you drive a dark car, you are f*&^cked.

On the other hand, if your paint is protected with a coating, you just wipe it off.

This one example is enough reason to "COAT" your car.

Not sure who those people are who prefer waxes/sealants.:confused::confused::confused:
 
While I am not the one your are asking, since I use a coating on every car I detail

Not sure who those people are who prefer waxes/sealants.:confused::confused::confused:

Sometimes when you have a hammer
..everything looks like a nail


The people who do not coat their cars include:

- People who like a defect free vehicle and polish 2x annually

- People who prefer the look of waxes

- People who can't justify the cost of the current coatings offers
 
Sometimes when you have a hammer
..everything looks like a nail


The people who do not coat their cars include:

- People who like a defect free vehicle and polish 2x annually

- People who prefer the look of waxes

- People who can't justify the cost of the current coatings offers

Lets break it down one by one

People who like a defect free vehicle and polish 2x annually

I'd say that people who like a defect free vehicle, should coat. No need to polish with the coating. Why would one take the hard way to a swirl free finish? Makes no sense.

People who prefer the look of waxes

How many of those "who prefer" the carnauba look compared the finishes? Could they even tell the difference?

People who can't justify the cost of the current coatings offers

How is that? You can purchase the DP coating from AG right here, that will destroy any wax/sealant in any category and it will actually last. So in fact, coatings are a much better value and it doesn't break the bank.

Just saying.
 
Great points Thomas


"Pauline Kael famously commented, after the 1972 Presidential election, ‘I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for Nixon. Where they are I don’t know. They’re outside my ken. But sometimes when I’m in a theater I can feel them.'”

Sometimes when you are so far inside of something, you can no longer see another point of view

Scratch Resistance

"No need to polish with the coating".

I have not seen this claim made until now. What is your claim based on?

Looks

Some people have more acute vision than you or I when it comes to one wax vs. another LSP.

I do know that the three Opti-Coat 2.0 vehicles that I have personally seen that were coated by experienced detailers did not have the highly reflective look that I like

Cost

For $40 I can buy 16oz of Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant which is enough to protect my full-sized SUV for 8 years.
 
Let's review class, coatings work ONLY when specific maintenance is adhered too endstop.

If a product(s) do not outperform in the category of bird dropping and/or water spotting protection and must be topped with a different product AND this is not covered in the sales pitch to the unwitting client then "Houston we have a problem".

When coatings have a particular price point and longevity promise by the maker, and said product does NOT in definition perform up to the claims ............... in addition also when a product has two price increases suddenly and sharp increases at that then one has to ask "Is this the standard" or in reality (In my opinion) a product that gained market share through the marketing and application of capable detailers? only to have things go in a direction which allows people with no ethics in business to take advantage of the "Coating craze".

I have watched guys with really no game overnight become "Coating experts" and I have heard from my clients own mouths the sales promises OTHERS have used recently that if they were recorded on audio and/or video the house of cards would be coming down.

It used to be that you strived not only to make as much HONEST profit as your skill and smarts allowed, now the goal is to do half as much to the car as quickly as possible and charge DOUBLE or more which would not pass the B.S test but now because you are putting something permanent/semi permanent the uneducated client bites because the car is "Locked down forever" .....................the part where the client should be told that if specific maintenance is carried out the coating(s) can work beautifully.

The chemistry is important no doubt, but so is the proper correction level BEFORE the coating is applied as opposed to slapping down the product with the "In by 8 out by 5" mentality ............. wash and wax.............sure, one step absolutely...............but the car SHOULD be as close to flawless for a coating job then maintained so the performance has a chance to match the claims conducted on test panels in labs as opposed to "Soccer mom"s" Black SUV.


The trade has become dealership "sucker born every minute" style........... I also don't want to hear that I am bashing production shops, they have their place and clients that cannot or will not pay for high level work need a place to take their car I get it. Where I see the dis-connect is the acceptance of fleecing clients knowing full well that more than likely after the "Nasa booster rocket juice" in the minds of the client based upon the sales jargon does not meet expectations(And most WILL run the car through a car wash and destroy the finish and say right to your face they didn't) will be back because there is a "Warranty" only to have the spin go into effect. and be pissed off.............. stepping down off the very tall soap box now.

I do have a question about those you are "people with no ethics in business" accusing. Who are these people? Why mention stuff like that if you don't name names? You are at the top of your game, not sure why you "seem" bitter".

There were people without conscience way before coatings were invented, what you are trying to say?

If Optimum raised their prices, I am sure David had a reason. Trust me, I don't like it either, but bad mouthing a company will not change things. And it doesn't make you look good either.

coatings work ONLY when specific maintenance is adhered too endstop.

THAT IS EVERY DETAIL. This was not a good class to be honest. Enjoy your weekend Bob.You are one of the very best :props:
 
Thomas.........................you know I am right and no spinning or winking smiley faces will change that. You always say I never name names when in the past I was the posterboy of no fear calling out people come on now!!!.

Anyway you feel I am deluded concerning my skill level so why care what I say?.
 
1 - Sometimes when you are so far inside of something, you can no longer see another point of view

Scratch Resistance

"No need to polish with the coating".

2 - I have not seen this claim made until now. What is your claim based on?

Looks

3 - Some people have more acute vision than you or I when it comes to one wax vs. another LSP.

I do know that the three Opti-Coat 2.0 vehicles that I have personally seen that were coated by experienced detailers did not have the highly reflective look that I like

Cost

4 - For $40 I can buy 16oz of Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant which is enough to protect my full-sized SUV for 8 years.

1 - that goes both way, wouldn't you say?

2 - You haven't? What do you know about coatings?

Opti-Coat Ceramic Clear Coating

Opti-Coat is a hard wearing, ceramic clear coat for superior resistance to scratching (9H) and protection from chemical etching due to environmental impacts.

Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive paint coating in use. It provides permanent protection for all modern factory paints and can also be used to protect metal and hard plastic surfaces.

With proper maintenance, it is much easier to have a mar free finish so there is no need to polish the paint.

3 - Where are these people who can tell what a particular is protected with?

The vehicles that you didn't care for with OC 2.0 means as much as what I would say in favor of it. But prep is everything, so even a "bare" finish should look fantastic.

4 - Good luck having a bottle last you 8 years. Not even close, plus how is that finish looking after 6 weeks, compared to the initial application? You can spread it any way you want to, a coating IS a better product. Or do you also prefer drum brakes?
 
Anyway you feel I am deluded concerning my skill level so why care what I say?.

Bob, what are you talking about? Where do you get that from?

you know I am right and no spinning or winking smiley faces will change that.

What are you right about? Why don't you name names?

I do know that there is another shop in SF who is EXTREMELY successful and new compared to you, are envious of Joseph?

Please tell me that isn't so???
 
gentlemen....guys. please.

tumblr_mad8a4hnAK1r6aoq4o1_250.gif
 
I understand the statement that paint should be perfect but people today are applying sealants/waxes to much less than perfect paint with dreams of durability. The coating is to protect the paint.
 
Regarding this issue, to coat or not to coat and its longevity, in my case it depends on the customer. Usually, my clientele wants something that lasts longer and gives an extra protection from bird droppings and small scratches. My usual customers wants me to polish their car and apply something that add some sort of protection so they can carry on with their lives without thinking about polishing again for at least one year. And to be able to withstand cheap car washes.
They always ask me 'how long will it last' and I say 'it depends'. It depends if you leave you car on the parking lot, uncovered, when you work, if the parking lot is covered or not, if you drive along dusty roads often, if you travel much, how often do you wash, where do you wash, who washes it, how, will you be coming back here to wash it, there are so much variables about each customers car usage that makes impossible to guesstimate the longevity. I always say something in between 4 months to 2 years. I know it is not very precise, :), but what else can I say?
I'm slowly moving towards coating every car I work with, but there is the problem with the cost. The application is a bit harder than sealant, but when you get used working with it, it becomes easier and faster.
My wife's car is a typical example. I did a wonderful job some three months ago, topped with Menzerna PL and the another layer of Nanolex Premium sealant, and then some Gtechniq liquid crystal everytime I washed. But she parks her car under the trees at work, and the zillions birds I have in my country did their job, sealant is not enough to withstand its acidic mess. I will coat it. The same with my car, birds and thin clearcoat. I coated friday.
I even think that Si based coatings, and its variations in formulation, are better than ceramic. I would love to try the opti-coat, but the price per ml is unbearable. I need 2 liters of coating, not some 30 to 50ml.
Right now I have 400 ml of Si based coating, and I'm always looking to try/buy new ones, especially the japanese coatings with strange english names, :). A sedan takes some 18 to 25ml to coat it, so, let's say, one liter is around 50 cars.
Therefore, coated cars have to be more expensive. If the customer doesn't want to pay nor can't afford I apply sealant anyway. No car leaves my shop unprotected.
But everyday you go to work and open the shop is different, you are always learning, and every car that shows up with its own budget is also different.
These are my thoughts for the time being, based on what I've been experiencing lately, I can always change my mind if facts prove I'm wrong, only a stupid person has a closed mindset.
What I try to achieve is a customer leaving my shop happy with the results, taking some extra cards and flyers to give to his friends, after paying me what we agreed upon.
Please forgive my english, it takes me a lot of effort to write it, but I try to detail my english the best I can as I do with my cars. My long two cents.
 
Coatings are quite the marketing golden goose. They've been marketed from products that are permanent, which they aren't, to filling like a glaze which they don't...to being so easy to apply that a cave man can do it, which they aren't, to making the paint look better which they don't.



What they do is offer the best sacrificial buffer between the paint and the environment. That's it. For most of us, that's good enough. They make no sense for garage queens, show cars, or for people that pamper their cars or demand the best look possible. Sealants can now get a year or more of protection. Those who apply a spray wax twice a month don't even need an LSP. Coatings are all about being the best sacrificial barrier possible. Period.
 
I'm going to be presumptuous and say that the end product...in this case a "Coating"...can be turned away by any consumer who may be offended or frightened by it.


Bob
 
1 - that goes both way, wouldn't you say?

2 - You haven't? What do you know about coatings?

Opti-Coat Ceramic Clear Coating

Opti-Coat is a hard wearing, ceramic clear coat for superior resistance to scratching (9H) and protection from chemical etching due to environmental impacts.

Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive paint coating in use. It provides permanent protection for all modern factory paints and can also be used to protect metal and hard plastic surfaces.

With proper maintenance, it is much easier to have a mar free finish so there is no need to polish the paint.

3 - Where are these people who can tell what a particular is protected with?

The vehicles that you didn't care for with OC 2.0 means as much as what I would say in favor of it. But prep is everything, so even a "bare" finish should look fantastic.

4 - Good luck having a bottle last you 8 years. Not even close, plus how is that finish looking after 6 weeks, compared to the initial application? You can spread it any way you want to, a coating IS a better product. Or do you also prefer drum brakes?

I know a bit about coatings

You state that Opti-Coat is "permanent". This is not true and no longer claimed by OPT. You must have cut and pasted the old marketing material

Coatings may be more scratch/marring resistant, but they do not eliminate the need to polish as you have stated and they will not prevent all defects from occurring.

Take some close-up photos of an Opti -Coated vehicle at the end of its 5 year warranty, there will be defects

Although this may be tough, as someone told me your particular camera has four buttons:

- Before Close-up
- After at 10 feet
- 50/50
- After Close-up

Apparently two of the buttons are broken


I did not state that there are, "people who can tell what a particular is protected with?" There are people who can see a difference between a car coated with a quality wax and Opti-Coat 2.0....I am one of these people. The finish did look fantastic, OC2.0 made it look less fantastic

I use approximately 1/2oz of sealant to coat my SUV. It looks great for all six months. Why do to infer that the look is diminished at 6 weeks? Do you think you could see the difference?
 
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