ONR Before LSP

[krabby]

I'm relatively new to the detailing world and have a quick question. I know a lot of people that love ONR, so it was the first decent wash that I bought. I currently use ONR like a normal wash with the 2BM and rinsing after, but I'm worried that the ONR is leaving something on the surface that may be affecting the adhesion of my Wolfgang DGS. Am I right to be concerned about this?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

What, you're using ONR "like a normal wash"??? If you want an Optimum normal wash, use Optimum Car Wash. Using ONR the way you are isn't reaping any of the benefit of a rinseless wash.

And no, you're not right to be concerned about ONR interfering with your WGDGPS, especially since you are rinsing off the ONR anyway.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[krabby]

I know it's not the proper method, I just didn't want to be hauling around a bunch of different car washes (I move a lot) and like that ONR enables me to be lazy if I need to. It's still a good quality wash, and although I recognize there are better-suited products out there if I'm rinsing, it's not exactly doing a poor job. Good to hear that it's not interfering with my sealant though, which is what I expected to hear especially considering that I rinse.

I did, however, break down recently and am giving CG Honeydew a shot with the Foammaster.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Even if you didn't rinse, it wouldn't interfere.

We've had a lot of talk on here in the last couple of years about "stripping" LSP's, etc.

The general consensus now, is that what used to be considered a "strip wash" of using Dawn, to remove your old sealant before applying a new one, wasn't actually removing anything. When you "stripped" with Dawn, and got no beading, you weren't actually "stripping" down to a virgin surface, you were adding a layer of polymer gunk to the top of your existing sealant (the purpose of the said "polymer gunk" in Dawn is to allow the water to "sheet" off of your dishes so you don't get water spots).

So the countless people around our world who used this process weren't putting their new sealant directly on the paint, they were putting it on top of Dawn surfactants, which were on top of their previous LSP...and no one was any the wiser.

So I think your concerns about whatever ONR is leaving on the surface are unfounded. But don't listen to me, I use Ajax (on my dishes).

 

[krabby]

Even if you didn't rinse, it wouldn't interfere.

We've had a lot of talk on here in the last couple of years about "stripping" LSP's, etc.

The general consensus now, is that what used to be considered a "strip wash" of using Dawn, to remove your old sealant before applying a new one, wasn't actually removing anything. When you "stripped" with Dawn, and got no beading, you weren't actually "stripping" down to a virgin surface, you were adding a layer of polymer gunk to the top of your existing sealant (the purpose of the said "polymer gunk" in Dawn is to allow the water to "sheet" off of your dishes so you don't get water spots).

So the countless people around our world who used this process weren't putting their new sealant directly on the paint, they were putting it on top of Dawn surfactants, which were on top of their previous LSP...and no one was any the wiser.

So I think your concerns about whatever ONR is leaving on the surface are unfounded. But don't listen to me, I use Ajax (on my dishes).

Hold on though because that's exactly my concern, that the polymers ONR leaves on top of clean paint would cause the WGDGPS to sit on top and not adhere properly. For example, I did a full wash, clay, wash, polish, wash, and seal a couple weeks ago. My concern is that the WGDGPS didn't bond with the paint because of the ONR polymers. I'm not worried at all about ONR "stripping" my WGDGPS.

 

[natewood70]

Hold on though because that's exactly my concern, that the polymers ONR leaves on top of clean paint would cause the WGDGPS to sit on top and not adhere properly. For example, I did a full wash, clay, wash, polish, wash, and seal a couple weeks ago. My concern is that the WGDGPS didn't bond with the paint because of the ONR polymers. I'm not worried at all about ONR "stripping" my WGDGPS.

Well, I don't have a crazy scientific means to back this up, but I have seen no ill effects on the LSP's I have used after application on a traditionally washed car (specifically 2 bucket method with Meg's Gold Class) vs. one washed with ONR.

My determination was based upon the breakdown of beading (call it hydrophobic properties if you wanna be fancy :coolgleam. I still had 2-3 months of life out of Collinite 845 regardless of the wash method chosen, and still experienced 2-4 weeks of life out of Souveran regardless of method chosen.

Like I said, this wasn't a hardcore comparison test, and only judged by beading and breakdown I noticed overtime at different intervals on different cars.

If you're concerned in anyway about this, I would give the car a final IPA wipedown after your 2nd wash step. Personally, for just ONR, I see no need to worry about proper bonding with WGDGPS.

 

[yg1829]

I'm not sure how you are drying your vehicle after you rinse ONR away but you have a much greater risk of scratching your vehicle drying with plain water on the surface. Maybe you're using a drying aid?

Drying with ONR on the surface provides lubricity to aid in drying and help reduce marring.

It's really a waste of time to drag out a hose for a rinseless wash.

But to answer your question...from my experience I have had no problem with an LSP bonding after ONR.

If you really want to do a traditional wash I would recommend Optimum car wash and add a half ounce of ONR to each bucket. It will help soften the water and in your rinse bucket it will help pull the dirt to the bottom.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[krabby]

Perfect, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks Nate.

 

[krabby]

I'm not sure how you are drying your vehicle after you rinse ONR away but you have a much greater risk of scratching your vehicle drying with plain water on the surface. Maybe you're using a drying aid?

Drying with ONR on the surface provides lubricity to aid in drying and help reduce marring.

It's really a waste of time to drag out a hose for a rinseless wash.

But to answer your question...from my experience I have had no problem with an LSP bonding after ONR.

If you really want to do a traditional wash I would recommend Optimum car wash and add a half ounce of ONR to each bucket. It will help soften the water and in your rinse bucket it will help pull the dirt to the bottom.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I'm not using a drying aid, but why would I be scratching the paint if it's been rinsed? Does everybody use a drying aid? And it seems to me that I shouldn't need the lubricity of ONR if the paint is clean.

 

[cleanmycorolla]

krabby, i suggest not over thinking detailing to much, just takes you down a rabbit hole. You'll be fine, no lsp's have ever spontaneously combusted on a car before!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Hold on though because that's exactly my concern, that the polymers ONR leaves on top of clean paint would cause the WGDGPS to sit on top and not adhere properly. For example, I did a full wash, clay, wash, polish, wash, and seal a couple weeks ago. My concern is that the WGDGPS didn't bond with the paint because of the ONR polymers.

I'm saying all those people that were worried their prior sealant would interfere with their new sealant, so they stripped it off with Dawn, and in fact were then not only applying their new sealant on top of the old sealant anyway, but on top of a layer of Dawn "gunk", and we didn't have a rash of threads "I Stripped with Dawn But My New Sealant Failed Anyway".

I also don't think you have anything to worry about what ONR is leaving behind, I'm sure it's more benign than a layer of sealant or what Dawn leaves behind. I mean heck, here's a quote from Chris Thomas of OPT on their forum: " I haven't had any ill effects going from wash stregth ONR to OC (Opti-Coat coating)".

If you're really worried about it, do an IPA wipe or a coating-prep wipe:

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep

Optimum Paint Prep

 

[krabby]

krabby, i suggest not over thinking detailing to much, just takes you down a rabbit hole. You'll be fine, no lsp's have ever spontaneously combusted on a car before!

Oh I'm way too far down that rabbit hole lol, I can get very obsessed with any technical hobby. Especially when it comes to my cars.

 

[krabby]

I'm saying all those people that were worried their prior sealant would interfere with their new sealant, so they stripped it off with Dawn, and in fact were then not only applying their new sealant on top of the old sealant anyway, but on top of a layer of Dawn "gunk", and we didn't have a rash of threads "I Stripped with Dawn But My New Sealant Failed Anyway".

I also don't think you have anything to worry about what ONR is leaving behind, I'm sure it's more benign than a layer of sealant or what Dawn leaves behind. I mean heck, here's a quote from Chris Thomas of OPT on their forum: " I haven't had any ill effects going from wash stregth ONR to OC (Opti-Coat coating)".

If you're really worried about it, do an IPA wipe or a coating-prep wipe:

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep

Optimum Paint Prep

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't necessarily worried per se, but I had the thought occur and wanted to make sure I wasn't screwing something up.

 

[The Guz]

krabby, i suggest not over thinking detailing to much, just takes you down a rabbit hole. You'll be fine, no lsp's have ever spontaneously combusted on a car before!

I agree with this.

If there is some worry about the products not bonding together than one of the products Setec posted would work prior to applying your LSP. Another option is to use Optimum Opti-Seal or Optimum Car wax to stay within the Optimum Synergy.

 

[natewood70]

Perfect, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks Nate.

You're welcome, hopefully it helps. Like others have said, try not to over think these processes too much. Detailing is already very tedious, and it's not fun when you need a degree in chemical engineering to understand how different products will interact with one another. Take a look at Setec's post below:

I also don't think you have anything to worry about what ONR is leaving behind, I'm sure it's more benign than a layer of sealant or what Dawn leaves behind. I mean heck, here's a quote from Chris Thomas of OPT on their forum: " I haven't had any ill effects going from wash stregth ONR to OC (Opti-Coat coating)".

If you're really worried about it, do an IPA wipe or a coating-prep wipe:

Wolfgang Perfekt Finish Paint Prep

BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep

Optimum Paint Prep

Product manufacturers have done a fantastic job in identifying the need to add any additional preparation steps prior to adding an LSP. You'll see that a lot of them are designed to work with products in their own lines, but can be used to give a close to (if not completely) "virgin" surface after a multi-step process (wash, clay, compound, polish, etc...) regardless of LSP.

Something I might have missed, but what kind of car and color is the WGDGPS going on? Just curious.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

You're welcome, hopefully it helps. Like others have said, try not to over think these processes too much. Detailing is already very tedious, and it's not fun when you need a degree in chemical engineering to understand how different products will interact with one another. Take a look at Setec's post below:

I made a point in another thread--the thread that talked about the inability to strip sealants with Dawn, and that IPA wipe only proceeded to remove the Dawn residue and not the underlying sealant--is that for a long time we think we've been stripping sealants, when in fact we haven't (and maybe leaving even waxes behind with something like Dawn), and that we've been applying new LSP's not on a "virgin" surface, but on top of lots of other adhered products (obviously this doesn't apply to polished surfaces, although we could discuss what polish residues are being left behind by Dawn or IPA wipes).

Anyway, the point is, how important REALLY is a "virgin" surface, when for years and years, we've been going along fat dumb and happy applying LSP's on top of residue. Even Zach (Attention to Detailing) has said he's applied coatings over polish residue (by not doing a prep wipe after polishing) and not noticed any deleterious effects (so far).

 

[WillSports3]

Here's a good example for you, carpro eraser is recommended as paint prep before cquartz. Eraser leaves a residue for anti static but no one is looking at it as an issue at all. The polymer being left behind is about as strong as the wax and what not you get from detailing spray. Just do an ipa wipe down and don't worry about it.

 

[yg1829]

I'm not using a drying aid, but why would I be scratching the paint if it's been rinsed? Does everybody use a drying aid? And it seems to me that I shouldn't need the lubricity of ONR if the paint is clean.

You don't have to use a drying aid. I use one because it makes me feel more comfortable while I'm drying. Ive been using opti seal as of late. Doesnt add any time, adds some really nice gloss, and some protection. If I do a traditional wash I will use my dp turbo dryer and just blot any remaining water.

If you have great results with your process than stick with it! That's what it's all about. Having fun and getting great results!



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[krabby]

You're welcome, hopefully it helps. Like others have said, try not to over think these processes too much. Detailing is already very tedious, and it's not fun when you need a degree in chemical engineering to understand how different products will interact with one another. Take a look at Setec's post below:




Product manufacturers have done a fantastic job in identifying the need to add any additional preparation steps prior to adding an LSP. You'll see that a lot of them are designed to work with products in their own lines, but can be used to give a close to (if not completely) "virgin" surface after a multi-step process (wash, clay, compound, polish, etc...) regardless of LSP.

Something I might have missed, but what kind of car and color is the WGDGPS going on? Just curious.

It's on a black 2007 Grand Cherokee SRT8. After the first application and only one coat, I'm incredibly happy with the results. It gives the paint quite a bit of shine.

^This brings up the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" as was mentioned a couple posts back as well.

 

[natewood70]

I made a point in another thread--the thread that talked about the inability to strip sealants with Dawn, and that IPA wipe only proceeded to remove the Dawn residue and not the underlying sealant--is that for a long time we think we've been stripping sealants, when in fact we haven't (and maybe leaving even waxes behind with something like Dawn), and that we've been applying new LSP's not on a "virgin" surface, but on top of lots of other adhered products (obviously this doesn't apply to polished surfaces, although we could discuss what polish residues are being left behind by Dawn or IPA wipes).

Anyway, the point is, how important REALLY is a "virgin" surface, when for years and years, we've been going along fat dumb and happy applying LSP's on top of residue. Even Zach (Attention to Detailing) has said he's applied coatings over polish residue (by not doing a prep wipe after polishing) and not noticed any deleterious effects (so far).

Yeah, I remember reading that. I think it was either the thread with PB's natty red on a white BMW, or at least a link within that thread. That's the most recent one in regards to LSP removal that I can remember.