Fired up 3401 for the first time...

[BudgetPlan1]

Umm, "wow" pretty much sums it up.

Kinda went into a polisher buying frenzy when AG had discounted gift certs last month. Have been using GG6 for last year but wanted to try something new so snatched up a LHR15 Mark 2, Rupes LHR75 Mini.

Still had some $$ left over so figrd I see what all the hullabaloo was about the Flex so ordered up one of those too kinda as an afterthought after the big holiday sales were over. So I thought, anyway; of course the week after I click 'Buy' AG has a 15% sale...doh! Eh, such is life, or at least my life anyway.

Regardless, with living in NE Ohio the 'garage' season is over so the only place I have to play is at work w/ the fleet of service vans that have likely recd no attention aside from occasional tunnel washes...but it seemed like a excellent place to start with the Flex, ya know kinda that whole 'production' detailing environment thing.

Grabbed a couple of sets of LC Force Hybrid pads, 6 each of 6.5" gray & orange as well as 6 each of the 5.5" gray, orange and white and the smaller Flex backing plate (4 3/8").

Picked out a fine 2008 Ford E250 outta the fleet, 151K hard miles on it. Paint is totally beat, oxidized a bit, dull, scratched, swirled, water spots...you name it. Had previously worked a similar condition truck last month with the GG6, D300 and micro cutting discs. Would take a set or two of 6-8 passes to get it looking nice enough to move to polish step, with nice being a relative term given paint condition. Twas' a bit of work for sure.

So yesterday I get the chance to haul out the Flex, slap on a 5.5" grey cutting pad and give it a go with a small bottle of M105, which I had never used before either and was curious about as it seems such a popular choice. Had read all the various methodologies regarding M105, from the KBM method thru various posts regarding the best way to use it without it being difficult (Prime, mist with water and such). Musta missed something in translation as first section that stuff was stuck like glue to the paint. Fortunately it was a smaller bottle of M105 which made it easier to hit the garbage can with it; homey ain't got time for that nonsense!

Grabbed another gray pad, slathered on some M101, speed 5.5, medium pressure and 4 passes later had the same results as the GG6/D300/Microfiber combo, that is, perfectly delightful considering the paint condition I was working with. Wow, that was certainly easy...well with respect to the GG6 combo anyway. Followed up with M205 w a white pad but, quite frankly, the M205 didn't improve all that much as far as gloss/clarity goes. The M101/Gray combo finished remarkably well...and with surprisingly little effort.

Items of note, to me anyway:

1. The 3401 is kinda like a GG6 that has been gulping steroids and spending lotsa time at the gym. Calling it 'The Beast' is pretty much spot-on.

2. Recessed body line, smaller area, weird contours? No worries...just tip it up on edge with that nice, thick Force pad and just keep on chugging with that pad happily spinning away without so much as a care in the world, making those defects run away and hide in short order. Amazingly easy.

3. Counter rotating pad? To tell ya the truth, if I wouldn't have known before hand i probably wouldn't have even noticed. Non issue for me.

4. Ease of operation? Love the progressive trigger, can spread on slow and move right up to speed without needing to adjust speed dial. Not sure on the weight but the longer handle made it easier for me to maneuver than the GG6, seemed able to stick it more easily into more areas. As for vibration it can seem a bit rougher than the GG6 at times but I snagged a pair of Mad Grip Impact Gloves a tech had in his van and that seemed to make it at least 50% less more pleasurable to use, if not more. Maybe I'll grab some of the GG Gloves on this weekends sale...it certainly makes a big difference for me.

Will have to check but maybe the speed selection dial is the opposite of the GG6 as without thinking about it I always seemed to move it the wrong direction when changing speeds.

I can certainly see why this is a good choice for not only production work but delicate jobs as well. Technique and attention to detail will certainly need to be adjusted when doing final polishing work but if you gotta compound and bust up some severe defects in short order, this thing will handle your business quickly.

While a Rupes will dance those defects away, the 3401 is gonna bust down the door and stomp 'em into submission quickly before exiting with a knowing smirk on it's face.

Can think of a few jobs last year where a Flex woulda saved a significant amount of time, in some cases likely 30 to 40% in the compounding step. It's gonna be a bit more taxing on these old bones but I think a lot of that can be minimized with further use/experience, body positioning and movement.

Got a little interesting when trying to extend my reach without moving my lazy butt (like when sitting on ground doing lower/rocker panels and such) but that's not machines fault...it's just telling you "Hey, we got work to do so quit messing around and get yourself over here so we can get outta here ya slacker!!"

Was kinda on the fence with this purchase, thinking maybe it was kinda redundant with the GG6, Rupes 15 and Rupes Mini but pretty sure this will have a very worthwhile seat at the 'efficiency table'. For once the little voices in my head that were casting doubt regarding a somewhat redundant purchase were WRONG. Dead wrong. This thing is a cold blooded defect killer. Can't wait to try it on some less abused vehicles with some other pads/combos and see how nice I can get it to finish out.

Also a lot easier to clean pad on fly with this constant rotation.

Winner.

Edit: The HOW TO USE FLEX POLISHER book that came with it is an invaluable tool to get a feel for the techniques and possibilities of using this thing. Saved me much effort going in as to what to expect, how to maximize efforts and tips and tricks. Didn't have to learn the hard way.

I did change plates and give the 6.5" pads a try too. Interesting...very interesting. Best be paying close attention unless you want the machine to take you on a quick trip to wherever IT wants to go.

 

[java]

Great review! Did you ever felt the 3401 was controlling you or you were in complete control (no walking the dog)?

 

[fly07sti]

Enjoyed reading your first time with the 3401. I know I love using mine.

 

[kevincwelch]

While a Rupes will dance those defects away, the 3401 is gonna bust down the door and stomp 'em into submission quickly before exiting with a knowing smirk on it's face.

Fantastic description. I think you're gonna love the Flex over the years. It certainly has changed the way I approach correction, even though I get all my devices out when it's time to hit the paint.

 

[boosteddub69]

Great review! Great info and an entertaining read at the same time. Well done Sir!

I just pulled the trigger on one and it should be here in a couple days.

 

[Aaryn NZ]

Great review! rops:

I have many polishers, & three of those are 3401s - they're my first choice & even after buffing, polishing & waxing thousands of vehicles, I've never been let down. I did have to replace the switch on the one that sees the most work but hey, with the amount of work its done, thats hardly a failure to me, in fact - if it hadn't started again I would've hung it on the wall in my shop & retired it with full honours. :dblthumb2:

Pleased you had a good experience with your Flex, thank you for a great read. :buffing:

Aaryn NZ.

 

[DaveT435]

Great review. It will be interesting to see which machine becomes your "go to" machine over the next few months. I assume both will see a fair amount of time before you decide which is best for you. I would think the mini will see action on almost every detail.

You've mentioned your age a few times now. I'm wondering how old you are. I see a lot of 40 year olds making these kind of comments and reality is they have no idea what's ahead of them. I'm 55 and it was a ver rough first 45 which has left me with a lot of plates, screws, and bolts holding me together and a really bad back. So how old are you?? More importantly how old do you feel?? lol I feel a lot older than my years unfortunately.

 

[fightnews]

so have you used the rupes fifteen a while and think the flex is a lot better?

 

[Kamakaz1961]

WOW!! What a great review!! Love my Flex and glad you do too! Keep on rockin!!

 

[Aaryn NZ]

so have you used the rupes fifteen a while and think the flex is a lot better?

These tools are completely different machines, I'm not sure why people keep trying to compare them. Both are great tools, I achieve great results with either . . . heck, I have an old Cyclo that will get the desired results too. Sometimes I use Megs. sometimes I use Pinnacle, Sometimes I use CarPro, sometimes . . . . the list is endless. There will never be only one tool, pad & product for every job. :buffing:

Aaryn NZ.

 

[spazzz]

Excellent read and review.

I know I love mine.

The first time I heard praise for the grey Force pad.

 

[lane5515]

Great write up. I had a Flex and went to Rupes and back to Flex. I now have a 15 MKII, Flex 3401, Rupes Mini and Nano. I reach for the Flex most of the time unless it is a large flat panel. It's tough to beat the Flex with Hybrid pads.

 

[BudgetPlan1]

Great review! Did you ever felt the 3401 was controlling you or you were in complete control (no walking the dog)?

Thanks...the 6.5" pads were a bit of an adventure when they weren't flat on the surface which at first happened at the ends of a pass. Started using more body movement instead of just arm movement; the, uh, 'alligator arm' technique? The 5" rarely dragged me around unless I was being sloppy and lazy/inattentive.

Great review. It will be interesting to see which machine becomes your "go to" machine over the next few months. I assume both will see a fair amount of time before you decide which is best for you. I would think the mini will see action on almost every detail.

I see the Mini getting a lot of use; it's really nice with the limited time I've had it so far.

I'm sure one will naturally rise to the top but much probably depends on what kinda projects I get involved with. Sometimes ya need a chain saw, sometimes a jigsaw works better for the task at hand.

If someone was leaving a silver Chevy Cruze for a day and it just needed a quick hit with a light or medium polish with light swirls/ defects, I'd probably grab the Flex, get it done and drop a sealant or inexpensive coating on it.

If I was doing our 2004 black corvette before putting a high $$ coating on it, I'd take a week and finesse it with the Rupes. In that case it's not just about the results, it's also about the process and the enjoyment of the 'artistry' and slow, quiet deliberation that goes into that particular task.

You've mentioned your age a few times now. I'm wondering how old you are. I see a lot of 40 year olds making these kind of comments and reality is they have no idea what's ahead of them. I'm 55 and it was a ver rough first 45 which has left me with a lot of plates, screws, and bolts holding me together and a really bad back. So how old are you?? More importantly how old do you feel?? lol I feel a lot older than my years unfortunately.

Currently 53 but body feels much older; things really start slowing down at 50 unless you really stay on top of it. Takes a bit longer to get up off garage floor.

Was a IT Geek/Software guy in a cubicle for a large company for 25 years but left that to go work for a swimming pool service company a few years ago (another interest of mine in addition to car stuff) so I don't live a completely sedentary lifestyle but it's still not enough to offset the aging. Was kinda worried the Flex might be a bit much but was pleasantly surprised by my first 5-6hrs with it. Was quicker than the GG6, but not necessarily more tiring, both on vertical and horizontal panels.

so have you used the rupes fifteen a while and think the flex is a lot better?

Did a GMC Sierra pickup w/ the Rupes, maybe about 6-8 hrs is all so far.

I don't think the Flex is better, just different. I think it will naturally become apparent when to use one over the other. Compounding really distressed paint I could see being done with Flex, follow up polishing/Finishing with Rupes. Things like a fleet of work vans where 70% correction is as good as it'll get (or needs to get) and Flex would be the way to go.

Excellent read and review.

I know I love mine.

The first time I heard praise for the grey Force pad.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised with the gray pads and how well/easily they worked with the Flex. Previous experience with a really firm pad was with M101 w GG6 using LC Flat yellow pad which paled in comparison w GG6, D300, micro cutting disc in that instance.


Have only been doing this since April 2015 so not a whole lotta experience, maybe 15 cars total last summer. Lack of experience probably makes it easier to get 'acceptable' results with Flex as opposed to Rupes and even to some extent, the GG6. Flex forced rotation and attention grabbing "you're doing it wrong" consequences of poor technique probably lend themselves better to beginners.

Free spinning machines just kinda quietly stall if ya get out of sorts until you adjust to get it spinning again. Flex is always spinning and doing *something*, even while your getting your act together.

The gloves helped a lot reducing fatigue/vibration...maybe really just a placebo effect but hey, as long as my brain thinks it helps, I guess that's all that matters. Could I see running a Flex for 8hrs straight? Uh...nope. Could I run the Rupes for 8hrs straight? Maybe.

Did one of these last summer, black, paint horribly neglected:

Entire car needed some real work with GG6,D300,micro cutting discs. Trunk was huge and flat, sides relatively flat but enough to occasionally stall GG6. I think the Flex woulda eaten that first compounding step for lunch as opposed to breaking into as many small sections as I had to to get pressure needed without stalling in order to do the job. Rupes would seem appropriate for the Menz 3500 follow up in that case. Flex for the heavy lifting, Rupes for the refinement.

Who knows...like I said, not very experienced at this stuff yet but that's how it works in my mind right now.

I also have the luxury of doing this for fun as opposed to for $$. Lotsa friends want this done so I can pick and choose what I'm willing to work on for free. Did one car for money last year, will not do that again as it completely took all the fun out of it. So for me, it's not just about getting it done but also the opportunity to get it done in a variety of ways. That's why I decided to get the Flex in addition to the Rupes machines which by themselves would have completely met my limited needs; I wanted to see what learning good and effective techniques using both tools/styles would be like.









Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[fightnews]

These tools are completely different machines, I'm not sure why people keep trying to compare them. Both are great tools, I achieve great results with either . . . heck, I have an old Cyclo that will get the desired results too. Sometimes I use Megs. sometimes I use Pinnacle, Sometimes I use CarPro, sometimes . . . . the list is endless. There will never be only one tool, pad & product for every job. :buffing:

Aaryn NZ.

because most of us can't afford to buy all four in one shot...

 

[fightnews]

Did a GMC Sierra pickup w/ the Rupes, maybe about 6-8 hrs is all so far.

I don't think the Flex is better, just different. I think it will naturally become apparent when to use one over the other. Compounding really distressed paint I could see being done with Flex, follow up polishing/Finishing with Rupes. Things like a fleet of work vans where 70% correction is as good as it'll get (or needs to get) and Flex would be the way to go.

ok ya i just got a g15 i found it stalls a lot even on a flat panel unless you have the innerflex pad on there. if you use 5" lc hybrid pads or regular 5.5 griots pads it doesnt stall at all. the first thing i did when i started using it was draw a couple white lines on the backing plate with a white paint marker, that helps a lot. i was going to get a flex but i figured it was similar to the gg6 so i got the longthrow. flex is next

 

[skipper1]

You have a very nice talent and don't even know it. If or when your bones give out, you could be a writer. All kinds of writing but the writing that got my attention was the ability to write compelling commercials for products. Read how others describe their adventure in buffing and re-read yours.

 

[fightnews]

You have a very nice talent and don't even know it. If or when your bones give out, you could be a writer. All kinds of writing but the writing that got my attention was the ability to write compelling commercials for products. Read how others describe their adventure in buffing and re-read yours.

idk can you get a writing position without a degree?

 

[BudgetPlan1]

You have a very nice talent and don't even know it. If or when your bones give out, you could be a writer. All kinds of writing but the writing that got my attention was the ability to write compelling commercials for products. Read how others describe their adventure in buffing and re-read yours.

Thanks for the kind words. Generally the conversations I have in my head end up flowing out thru the keyboard. I guess having little voices in your head is not always a bad thing.

idk can you get a writing position without a degree?

Undergrad degree was in Advertising Jornalism, back when term papers were written with typewriters. Degree path chosen partly because it involved no math...math is Kryptonite for me.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[TTQ B4U]

Gald you enjoy the Flex. I have had mine for a year now and wish I would have just bought one several years back. I can't use a non-forced rotation unit any longer. For me it's either a rotary and/or a Flex 3401. Amazing machine.

Great review! Did you ever felt the 3401 was controlling you or you were in complete control (no walking the dog)?

If you've not used one it can in some instances feel like that. I know many don't like using MF Pads on it as it can be Grabby, but I've had huge success using the thin Griot's Garage Black MF Pads. It only gets Grabby with them when they become loaded with product and oxidation. I change them every two panels or more if the panel is big and have zero issues. Works fabulous and corrects fully in 2-3 maybe 4 passes. Very fast.

Grabbed a couple of sets of LC Force Hybrid pads, 6 each of 6.5" gray & orange

I've not had good luck with the Gray. Thankfully I only bought 2-3 of them but I've since not used them and instead use MF Pads.

 

[RippyD]

Currently 53 but body feels much older; things really start slowing down at 50 unless you really stay on top of it. Takes a bit longer to get up off garage floor.

Was a IT Geek/Software guy in a cubicle for a large company for 25 years but left that to go work for a swimming pool service company a few years ago (another interest of mine in addition to car stuff) so I don't live a completely sedentary lifestyle but it's still not enough to offset the aging. Was kinda worried the Flex might be a bit much but was pleasantly surprised by my first 5-6hrs with it. Was quicker than the GG6, but not necessarily more tiring, both on vertical and horizontal panels.

Thanks for sharing. On the age thing, I hear you. Building a PC with my kid last week. Sat on the floor for a while - 40 mins maybe. Went to get up. Body was not liking it. When did sitting become a problem?

Good to read your experience with the machines. If I did this for a living I'd absolutely want more machine than the GG6 (no complaints, it's more than adequate). Something smaller would be nice. Considering an air-powered tool.