Topping AIO’s with Sealant - Basic test

[dlc95]

Update: Ok it’s been exactly 2 months and things aren’t what they should be... I did the 1st bucket wash in a while, possibly the 1st actual bucket wash since the beginning of this test and check it out. [washed with Megs Hyper Wash]

This is post wash.

Prior to this wash, the car had only been touched twice.
1st time was a normL waterless wash w/WG Uber about a week after the start of the test.

2nd time was a waterless wash w/Uber following a pre rinse with the hose nozzle to knock off the majority of the dirt before the waterless wipedown.

The 2nd wipedown mentioned here^ was about 3 weeks ago and I did notice a dramatic lack of beading/proper water behavior on both trunk and the hood... But I didn’t pay much attention since the car had just been parked and not driven for about 5 straight weeks.

I’ll have to test this again just to make sure it’s not a fluke, but I’ve never seen my paint just go dead like this after just 8 weeks.

Wow.

That looks fairly conclusive.

 

[SWETM]

Did it revive any water behavior after the wash?

 

[Eldorado2k]

Thanks for doing this Eldo. Your conclusion is exactly what I expected. In my experience sealants and waxes are short lived benefits. They look good for about a month for me. I don't have that much time to constantly be reapplying. I like to polish before I reapply, which for me takes too long.

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No no my friend, I have to disagree with you on this 1.
I went back and looked through my photos and was able to pinpoint exactly how this took place... After checking the time stamps of the photos I took during this test, I’m even more convinced that these poor results are in direct relation to the AIO’s screwing things up. Check it out.

Ok just for reference, this is what it looks like when condensation happens on a panel when I apply sealant.

Controlled section in the middle [bare paint on the thin center strip] Compared to a much lighter form of protection, in this case Megs D156 Synthetic Spray Sealant.

It’s like night & day. No doubt which side has more solid protection.

Now check this out.. I took this pic on May 13th [as you can see on the timestamp] just 3 days after starting this experiment. Look at the difference in the condensation.

Here’s a pic of the trunk.

That weak thin layer of condensation after just 3 days was the 1st red flag. So I grabbed the hose and was curious about the water behavior..

After hitting it with the shower setting on the nozzle. Keep in mind this is only 3 days into the test.

I knew at that moment something was off. That’s just not how it outta be..
1st of all that’s way too much water to still be on the panel after a fierce shower from the nozzle. 2nd those beads aren’t what they should be, IMO they’re already at the point of nearly going limp and just flat out wierd looking.. Bottom line that’s way too much water sticking to the paint.

Here’s an example of what I’m used to seeing, and this is like almost 2 months in on a normL stand alone application of sealant with no toppers ever applied to the paint. The water beads good, but more importantly if there’s even a little bit of force behind it [i.e. the hose nozzle] it runs away from the paint and does it’s best to be gone aka water fearing. This panel would be nearly dry if the application wasn’t 2 months old, but even then it sheets a whole lot better than this current experiment at only 3 days into it.

Now lets fast fwrd. to June 3rd. This is just 25 days into the test, no rain, the car hadn’t even moved the whole time.. Just sitting outside parked 24/7. It’s kind of dirty/dusty so here’s the day I did a pre rinse prior to waterless that I described in my previous post.

Rinse.

Now check out the water behavior/beading and lack of sheeting. IMO those beads a total mess and are to the point of asking for trouble the way they’re just sitting on the paint. [they actually did in fact turn into water spots that are kind of visible at the moment]
Also, notice the top section, which is McKee’s 360 AIO serving as the base layer has officially failed.

And on the trunk... Even more dramatic failure on the Griots panel, just 25 days in. [Griots Boss Finishing Sealant serving as the base on top. Megs D151 PRC serving as the base on the lower half of the panel]

I still want to run this test again just in case for some strange reason this is a fluke. [I highly doubt it as I was clinical in my application of all this]
But so far all signs point to the AIO’s causing extreme detriment when used as a “polish” or base layer under a sealant that typically provides very strong and long lasting protection, easily going 5-6 months on its own.

This is what the beading Should look like. Not that mess you see in those test panels.

...Interesting results. I’m going to try this same test on a different vehicle soon.​

 

[acuRAS82]

So conclusion is that the AIOs probably prevented proper bonding of sealant x in this testing instance.

 

[supercharged75]

Are you going to try the angelwax All in one that is coming out? There are some big claims for durability on that one as well.

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[supercharged75]

Great content and really interesting to see real world results vs company claims of durability.

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[Eldorado2k]

Did it revive any water behavior after the wash?

I took those/these pictures after the wash & rinse. I gave it it’s fare chance, but as we can see there was no return in sight.

Something I find interesting is that the top right/left corners of the hood appear to shed water compared to the main center of the panel, where the polishing was more focused on. I didn’t even run the polisher on the 2 top corners because the clearcoat is completely flaked off in those 2 areas and machine polishing over this would be an obvious mistake. I did apply sealant to those 2 areas though, because I applied by hand with a foam applicator.

And towards the front of the hood I naturally applied less effort/pressure the same way we sometimes tend to do when working on the lower halves of the doors. Natural laziness + I wasn’t removing any defects... Leads me to believe that the center section, where I would’ve naturally focused more effort, time, and energy and also resulted in a stronger more thorough bond of the AIO’s actually resulted in a greater negative result when it’s all said and done. At least that’s what I’m guessing.

So conclusion is that the AIOs probably prevented proper bonding of sealant x in this testing instance.

Yup.

Are you going to try the angelwax All in one that is coming out? There are some big claims for durability on that one as well.

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I’m not very familiar with Angel Wax line of products. My 1st thought was That you may have been referring to Polish Angel.. So no, I don’t think I’m going to be looking into it. TBO I can’t say this is a great surprise or disappointment because I’ve never put much worth into any AIO nor do I expect any brand to someday give you the world in a bottle. It’s just too good to be true. A quik re condition or quik fix for a flip or whatever the situation happens to be and an AIO can surely be ideal, but realistically I wouldn’t expect there to ever be an AIO that I would use on my personal vehicles. I’ll go far enough to say I’ll never use an AIO on the Kia. I wouldn’t even test them on that vehicle. Lol.

Great content and really interesting to see real world results vs company claims of durability.

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Thank you! Appreciate it.

 

[acuRAS82]

I wonder if a durable wax such as Collinite 845 would fare a lot better on top of the AIOs (based on many accounts from others and the fact that waxes typically do better as toppers).

 

[Eldorado2k]

I wonder if a durable wax such as Collinite 845 would fare a lot better on top of the AIOs (based on many accounts from others and the fact that waxes typically do better as toppers).

It’s possible... Won’t know until you try. But there’s also the thing you have to keep in mind sometimes, and that’s that alot of times people describe what they’ve done or what they do on customers vehicles.. And while just about everything looks amazing just after completion, it doesn’t necessarily mean that 1-2 months down the line things are still rock solid A+. For all we/they know the protection has gone downhill. Anything can happen.

 

[SWETM]

Intresting conclusions. You wrote that you may have overworked the AIO. Do you think that could played a part in the longevity got on the early failure?

Sorry I misunderstood that it was pictures of the after wash.

 

[RippyD]

Thanks for doing this Eldo. Your conclusion is exactly what I expected. In my experience sealants and waxes are short lived benefits. They look good for about a month for me. I don't have that much time to constantly be reapplying. I like to polish before I reapply, which for me takes too long.

Some sealants will easily go 6 months in terms of repelling water. If you want to keep the shine it's pretty easy to apply a spray wax or QD while drying ever 3-4 weeks.

 

[Eldorado2k]

Intresting conclusions. You wrote that you may have overworked the AIO. Do you think that could played a part in the longevity got on the early failure?

Sorry I misunderstood that it was pictures of the after wash.

I wouldn’t describe it as overworked to the point of even nearing any sort of negative effect. I’m not 1 of those dudes who’s polishing cycle lasts 2-3 or even an insane 5min. I’ve seen some dudes go for on youtube. I’m practically yelling at the screen by then like “dude what the hell are you doing? Stop the polisher already!” Lol.

My buffing cycles are as short as can be.

 

[Belo]

I guess I never considered using an aio as a first step. For me, the whole point of the aio is to save time. However, after reading your logic behind the test i'm glad you did it. I still probably sit in the camp of polish then seal/wax and not aio then seal.

I'll also disagree with the poster stating he only gets a month or 2 from a sealant. I've used mostly menzerna power lock and get an easy 6 months even on outdoor vehicles.

I guess my only other thought after reading most of this thread... and mind you I'm an engineer so I'm a little anal about "tests", but I don't think your test subject was a fair choice. And maybe it was your only option, but I do think it's fair to point out you're applying products to a panel that is failing and not failing uniformly either. An obvious solution would be to try this test on a car with a relatively new and well kept clear coat. just my .02. thanks again for doing this.

 

[joleyred]

I think I was missing your main point when I made my statement about wax/ sealant life. I realize you are looking at this from a different way than just that. I have only used AIO once, and I can't say I'm sold on it. I love the idea and I just used Essence on my RV with good initial results. I would like to top it with Reload and hope for a few months protection. Thanks for your efforts on this, nice job.

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[SWETM]

I wouldn’t describe it as overworked to the point of even nearing any sort of negative effect. I’m not 1 of those dudes who’s polishing cycle lasts 2-3 or even an insane 5min. I’ve seen some dudes go for on youtube. I’m practically yelling at the screen by then like “dude what the hell are you doing? Stop the polisher already!” Lol.

My buffing cycles are as short as can be.

I was just checking. I'm with you on the passes per sections some do is way more than needed. Something to have in mind when overwork polishes. Is when the polishing oils dries up on you the lubrication of your pad is gone too. It's like polish with only the pad almost and no polish on it. Just a note to those who is reading. And the thoughts on overwork polishes. It's better to stop before and in the cycle of passes. Then clean the pad and reload the polish and do one more set if needed.

Intresting how your test goes. And thanks for shareing it.

/Tony

 

[JustJesus]

I wouldn’t describe it as overworked to the point of even nearing any sort of negative effect. I’m not 1 of those dudes who’s polishing cycle lasts 2-3 or even an insane 5min. I’ve seen some dudes go for on youtube.

I'm pretty sure I go longer that 2 minutes! I knew I was taking long!

 

[acuRAS82]

I'm pretty sure I go longer that 2 minutes! I knew I was taking long!

Is this time spent during the entire 2’x2’ polish section? If so, I may be around 2 mins max. Probably not necessary but it’s hard to resist.

 

[JustJesus]

Is this time spent during the entire 2’x2’ polish section? If so, I may be around 2 mins max. Probably not necessary but it’s hard to resist.

Maybe. I'll have to go back and check some videos I have of me doing a spot.

 

[Dr Oldz]

1st of all awesome and fun thread! Thank you!

I have found thru the years that if I wanted to top an AIO with a sealant that synergy usually worked.. The old BF Total polish and seal would be rather durable with BFWD on top of it. Same with Optimum Poli Seal and OPT Car Wax. When I started mixing and matching, it actually was less durable than a stand alone of either the AIO or sealant.

Now when topping with a Nuba paste, it always seemed more durable. Not sure why but my guess is the solvents and emulisifiers in the Nuba actually removed the protective properties of the AIO.

Now the newer AIO's have pretty good durability compared to the AIO's of 10 years ago. I will say that for whatever reason if I go over any AIO now with Ultima Waterless Wash with Acrylic that the durability actually dramatically increases. I cant explain this as its only a WW but it does add rather good beading peoperties.

Now I will answer "why I top and AIO" Because I feel most AIO's now are actually easier to use than most polishes that we would use for a one step and really clean most paintwork rather good. Correction is pretty good on most AIO's for a one step. Most times I do not top an AIO unless its family of a friends.

 

[Finick]

You better hit that bad boy with a gloss meter, stick some tape on it, and do all manners of other tests before you determine that LSP is dead beading =\= protection after all, right?

Just kidding, of course.

Like a lot of others; I’m interested in whether or not something like 845 would fare better. It comes highly recommended as a combo from people, and anecdotally it’s seemed to be holding up well on my car thus far.

Cool thread though


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