Maybe it should be called a “clean meter”
I’ll keep my gloss enhancing products, thank you.
I think you missing the point. My meter is on the way, will post what I use it for and my findings, I know this will be used as much if not more than my PTG.
Fun with a Gloss Meter ;)
- Thread starter Calendyr
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I think you missing the point. My meter is on the way, will post what I use it for and my findings, I know this will be used as much if not more than my PTG.
Eldorado2k
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Fun with a Gloss Meter 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Loach say that Carpro Reload is a “heavy” lsp that “leaves behind alot of residuals” which impact readings negatively? And that after a couple of washes you should see readings on the gloss meter come back up?
I’m sorry but my eyes see just fine and I’ll be damned if Reload looks better after I’ve washed nearly all the goodness away. Reload only looks good immediately after applying it. That’s when it’s left the black paint darker and filled in any swirls, but suddenly we’re supposed to believe what this little “gloss meter” says? Who died and made the gloss meter the authority of shine? Are you telling me paint is glossier after giving Reload an IPA wipedown? If so I couldn’t disagree more.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Loach say that Carpro Reload is a “heavy” lsp that “leaves behind alot of residuals” which impact readings negatively? And that after a couple of washes you should see readings on the gloss meter come back up?
I’m sorry but my eyes see just fine and I’ll be damned if Reload looks better after I’ve washed nearly all the goodness away. Reload only looks good immediately after applying it. That’s when it’s left the black paint darker and filled in any swirls, but suddenly we’re supposed to believe what this little “gloss meter” says? Who died and made the gloss meter the authority of shine? Are you telling me paint is glossier after giving Reload an IPA wipedown? If so I couldn’t disagree more.
Calendyr
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As for images - you need to resize them to a practical size otherwise all the humongous pictures our phones and cameras create would fill up a server on no time fo no good reason.
Look at the volume of pictures I post every week?
I simplevresizecthem to 800 pixelscwide before uploading.
It’s really no that hard.
Will give it a try. I think I have tried 800 wide before with no succes. My camera takes pictures in UHD (3840 X 2160). I have tried resizing them to 1024 wide and 800 wide and the site would keep saying they were too big. Anyway... will try again
Calendyr
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Hey thanks for reading and remembering... I still plan on writing that article... :xyxthumbs:
I would not describe the effect of applying a wax, sealant or coating to a compounded and polished surface as "tone down gloss" as you say, but rather to shmoo over and create a uniform appearance that will hold up over time.
Just to point out, most compounds and polishes are water soluble and contain some form of lubricating oils or agents so the abrasives simply don't scour the surface. These oils will wash off with,
- Exposure to rain
- Repeated washing with normal wash or rinseless was
- Repeated wiping with anything with water and cleaners i.e. spray detailers, waterless washers
So what a car wax, synthetic paint sealant or a ceramic paint coating will do is create a uniform appearance that will hold up over time. Thus the reason I say no matter what the results of a compound or polish, or brand of tool, or style of tool, or type of finishing pad and even a person's technique "can" create a more perfect finish after wipe-off the last step abrasive product, (usually a polish), and could show up as a "difference" to a gloss meter or to the human eyes, that after the application of the wax, sealant or coating the difference from the above process will be nullified as the application of the wax, sealant or coating will create a uniform appearance and in some cases, "yes" tone down the highest of gloss and clarity results. It shouldn't be considered a "bad thing" when you factor in 99.9% of the people that want to detail their car not only want it to look good but they want the results to last a long time. The "last a long time" factor cannot be achieved by compounding and polishing alone.
Hope the above makes sense, I don't normally like to go deep but I can.
Interesting. I did surprise me a lot though. I was really thinking any LSP would give additional gloss, even if it was just a small amount. Well, that explains that
As for LSP, I always tell client that the protection is the most important aspect of any detail. What ever work we do before is just to prepare for the protection to be applied. Even if coatings reduce gloss more than wax or sealant, I would still promote it as the best thing to use in most cases.
Calendyr
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Well... I did not take readings after polishing and before doing IPA wipedown. So it is very possible the gloss would have been higher if I had done that.
The goal of polishing, for me, is not to remove swirls. My goal when polishing is to remove any oxidation and micro-marring. Swirls usually don't all come off with a polish, unless you spend a lot of time doing it. At that point you might as well do a compound. For me a polishing is a quick step, usually 2 to 3 passes at medium speed. Where as when I compound I do at least 5 passes at slow speed. I guess you could take a polish, do 50 passes and get the same result as the compound but in my mind it makes no sense to do a very long polishing session.
Yes, some sealants will change the perceived color of the paint. The one that does it the most for me is Menzerna Power Lock. Also CarPro Essence seems to make black paint super dark and shiny. This is very likelly due to the way their gloss agents and fillers work.
Gloss is a matter of reflectiveness, so perfect gloss would be something like a mirror. You can have both darker paint and more reflectivity, one is not the same as the other. I think that the way the car looks is a combination of the two.. Either way, more gloss is always desirable, even if it is not the only aspect of the appearance.
As for your eye, I agree. The meter simply puts a number on it, which is a lot better than saying to a client : "It's gonna be a lot shinier". If I tell a client, you car currently has 64% gloss, and I can improve that to 92% with this process, it's a lot easier to understand for the client.
Mike Phillips
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Re: Fun with a Gloss Meter
I agree.
The masses don't know anything, at least not like we talk about. Our language and craft is alien to them. But if you whip out a tool like a "Gloss Meter" and show them a before and after difference they can see with their eyes and some new/fangled contraption measures and reads a digital number - Cha-ching! Let the machine do the selling.
I agree.
I think this is where the true value of such a tool lies.
I agree.
The masses don't know anything, at least not like we talk about. Our language and craft is alien to them. But if you whip out a tool like a "Gloss Meter" and show them a before and after difference they can see with their eyes and some new/fangled contraption measures and reads a digital number - Cha-ching! Let the machine do the selling.
I agree.
I think this is where the true value of such a tool lies.
Eldorado2k
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IMO telling a customer their “gloss” went from 64% to 92% because this little device says so will never approach the real deal no doubt about it moment when you simply walk them up to their vehicle and show them this... Don’t even have to say a word. Results speak for themselves.
...Not some little electronic device that we’re trying to explain to them. NormL people don’t geek out, nor do they have the attention span to get swept up into imaginary number that some little device reads out. Why should the customer even believe in the gloss meter? I mean it’s not like it’s a thermometer where the results are obvious.
Calendyr
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IMO telling a customer their “gloss” went from 64% to 92% because this little device says so will never approach the real deal no doubt about it moment when you simply walk them up to their vehicle and show them this... Don’t even have to say a word. Results speak for themselves.
...Not some little electronic device that we’re trying to explain to them. NormL people don’t geek out, nor do they have the attention span to get swept up into imaginary number that some little device reads out. Why should the customer even believe in the gloss meter? I mean it’s not like it’s a thermometer where the results are obvious.
The thing is, you have to get the contract and do the work to show them the final result. The meter is there to help you make the sale. Different purpose.
Calendyr
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Ok... let's see if I have shrunk the files enough They are 800 pixels wide and I used 10 out of 12 as JPEG accuracy.
View attachment 63569
Ok looks like it's working
So here is an other one of the meter:
View attachment 63570
Some after pictures of my car. Did not take pictures before or in the process since I was really pressed for time. But the before were similar. The car did not need much love
View attachment 63571
View attachment 63572
View attachment 63573
View attachment 63574
View attachment 63575
View attachment 63576
Ok... enough pictures for now
Thanks Mike
They are 800 pixels wide and I used 10 out of 12 as JPEG accuracy.View attachment 63569
Ok looks like it's working
So here is an other one of the meter:
View attachment 63570
Some after pictures of my car. Did not take pictures before or in the process since I was really pressed for time. But the before were similar. The car did not need much love
View attachment 63571
View attachment 63572
View attachment 63573
View attachment 63574
View attachment 63575
View attachment 63576
Ok... enough pictures for now
Thanks Mike
Mike Phillips
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Just to note...
Looks like you "attached" them instead of uploading them to your free gallery.
If you upload them to your gallery you'll find it even easier to work with photos all over the Internet, not just here.
I just downloaded your attachments and then uploaded them to your free gallery here on AGO.
Here's the link
Then click on a single thumbnail picture and that will bring up the full size image.
Next, right click on the image and locate the URL Address and then highlight and copy the address.
Then using the picture button in the text formatting options above the message box, copy and paste the URL Address into the dialog box or do like me, switch to Code View and simply type in the image tags like this,
Then then past the code then close with the closing tag which is the same as the opening tag only now after the bracket and before the letter I you add a back slash like this /
Simple Simon
Your Gloss Meter
[img]http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/GlossMeter1.jpg
Your car
Once I hit the [Submit Reply] button you won't see the code unless you "quote" me and switch to code view so I took a screen shot of the code view.
Well.... at least it's simple to me...
Looks like you "attached" them instead of uploading them to your free gallery.
If you upload them to your gallery you'll find it even easier to work with photos all over the Internet, not just here.
I just downloaded your attachments and then uploaded them to your free gallery here on AGO.
Here's the link
Then click on a single thumbnail picture and that will bring up the full size image.
Next, right click on the image and locate the URL Address and then highlight and copy the address.
Then using the picture button in the text formatting options above the message box, copy and paste the URL Address into the dialog box or do like me, switch to Code View and simply type in the image tags like this,
Then then past the code then close with the closing tag which is the same as the opening tag only now after the bracket and before the letter I you add a back slash like this /
Simple Simon
Your Gloss Meter
[img]http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/GlossMeter1.jpg
Your car
Once I hit the [Submit Reply] button you won't see the code unless you "quote" me and switch to code view so I took a screen shot of the code view.
Well.... at least it's simple to me...
IMO telling a customer their “gloss” went from 64% to 92% because this little device says so will never approach the real deal no doubt about it moment when you simply walk them up to their vehicle and show them this... Don’t even have to say a word. Results speak for themselves.
...Not some little electronic device that we’re trying to explain to them. NormL people don’t geek out, nor do they have the attention span to get swept up into imaginary number that some little device reads out. Why should the customer even believe in the gloss meter? I mean it’s not like it’s a thermometer where the results are obvious.
Imaginary number???? So a PTG spits out imaginary numbers too??? You hilarious.
Eldorado2k
Well-known member
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Imaginary, call it what you want. How about irrelevant?
IIRC in 1 of Loaches vids the gloss readings were lower after applying Pinnacle Souveran Wax. So if we’re to stand behind the almighty gloss meter, I guess that means that Pinnacle Souveran Degrades the gloss on the paint. Same goes for Carpro Reload, because like he stated above, it’s going to need a good wash to remove the residuals it leaves behind before gloss readings come back up... How bout that?
Calendyr
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Just to note...
Looks like you "attached" them instead of uploading them to your free gallery.
If you upload them to your gallery you'll find it even easier to work with photos all over the Internet, not just here.
I just downloaded your attachments and then uploaded them to your free gallery here on AGO.
Here's the link
Then click on a single thumbnail picture and that will bring up the full size image.
Next, right click on the image and locate the URL Address and then highlight and copy the address.
Then using the picture button in the text formatting options above the message box, copy and paste the URL Address into the dialog box or do like me, switch to Code View and simply type in the image tags like this,
Then then past the code then close with the closing tag which is the same as the opening tag only now after the bracket and before the letter I you add a back slash like this /
Simple Simon
Your Gloss Meter
[img]http://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/data/500/GlossMeter1.jpg
Your car
Once I hit the [Submit Reply] button you won't see the code unless you "quote" me and switch to code view so I took a screen shot of the code view.
Well.... at least it's simple to me...
Hum... I used the attach picture button in the message menu. Can you get to the upload page you linked in the message menu or do you have to find it somewhere else on the site?
rlmccarty2000
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I use Tapatalk to post pictures and it is simple. If I can do it anyone can.
Loach
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It's funny because you would think the gloss meter as a tool would be the most suited towards an industry that revolves around maximizing surface enhancement. But as you allude to, gloss is only one aspect of the whole picture of what our eyes are trying to perceive, and this type of meter is only going to capture measurements for this one aspect.
The gloss meter breaks down the definition of gloss purely scientifically as how reflective the surface is once a fixed beam of light is bounced off of it into a receiver. It does a real good job at measuring this, but in detailing we're used to the word "gloss" being defined as a combination of how shiny, wet, warm, deep, and/or dark the surface is, rather than just how shiny it is. It is not designed to pick up on oils as something that may lead to "depth" enhancement, or extra "warmth" or "wetness". All the gloss meter sees is an oil on the surface diffusing the reflected light and it will measure the shininess accordingly.
It doesn't mean the meter isn't useful, it is the king of gloss measuring once we use the scientific definition of the word gloss. But I know in the realm of detailing there's no way with the gloss meter that I can make the objective claim that the surface after polishing with M205 + Eraser at 105 GU looks better than it does immediately after buffing off Souveran on top that now reads at 97 GU, or 99 GU after more buffing, or 101 after even more heavy buffing, or 103.5 after a wash.
Finick
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If I’m not mistaken, the film waxes leave behind isn’t necessarily always 100% transparent as well. So it would make perfect sense to me that a LSP (most notably a natural wax) could certainly tone down the gloss readings of freshly polished paint.
IIRC you can see a good example of this during the earlier wax brewing vlogs on the forensics detailing channel on his van.
there’s a thread floating around somewhere talking about M16 being one of these types of waxes. I’ll probably try to find it but I’ll be damned if I remember what I even searched for that lead me there to begin with.
I wouldn’t say a gloss meter isn’t useful, but I think like any tool, the bigger picture has to be kept in mind. I also think a more common usage of tools like a gloss meter would go a long way to give the detailing industry some kind of semblance of objective/quantitative data that imo it sorely lacks.
I suppose such data wouldn’t be terribly useful, given the variance in climate, how LSPs degrade, application/prep differences, but anything would be better than nothing imo. It’s simply in my nature to want some type of objective data.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
IIRC you can see a good example of this during the earlier wax brewing vlogs on the forensics detailing channel on his van.
there’s a thread floating around somewhere talking about M16 being one of these types of waxes. I’ll probably try to find it but I’ll be damned if I remember what I even searched for that lead me there to begin with.
I wouldn’t say a gloss meter isn’t useful, but I think like any tool, the bigger picture has to be kept in mind. I also think a more common usage of tools like a gloss meter would go a long way to give the detailing industry some kind of semblance of objective/quantitative data that imo it sorely lacks.
I suppose such data wouldn’t be terribly useful, given the variance in climate, how LSPs degrade, application/prep differences, but anything would be better than nothing imo. It’s simply in my nature to want some type of objective data.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eldorado2k
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The reason he’s having issues posting pics through Tapatalk is because the pictures weren’t taken with his phone. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why.
And I feel the same way. I think Tapatalk, while it’s far from perfect is simple and effective. If I can do it, anyone can.
Thanks for the reply, Loach. I appreciate your ability to be objective in regards to the gloss meter and pretty much everything you’ve taken the time to highlight in your youtube vids.
Based on your explanation of what the gloss meter can and can’t do, I can’t help but think of it as a really impractical tool for detailers to use.. Nothing against the gloss meter itself, because last I checked it’s not like it’s some new gimmick being marketed in the detailing world.
TTQ B4U
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Good explanation. These tools intrigue me but more from just a fun perspective at home than say directly with a client. Is Geyon Pure really glossier than say Mohs with Skin? etc. IMO keeping things very simple and high level for customers is always best. Sure, we all encounter "technical" people but I've yet to encounter someone splitting hairs over anything.
At the end of the day people want a shiny car and one that looks dramatically different than what they brought in. Gloss and shine to me and the impact results of my efforts are best seen on a vehicle in the right lighting for the color. I love delivering dark colored vehicle on a sunny day with nice white puffy clouds; lighter colors IMO looks stunning under lights. It's all relative to the human eye as they move around the vehicle. Show me a silver car on a cloudy day and I'll likely be happy but more meh than a nice black car in the right light.