What Happened To My Ceramic Coating?

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Dreichler

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What Happened To My Ceramic Coating


Back in March of this year- exactly about 3 months ago— I put the CarPro TIO2 Ceramic Coating on my car. I have a black 2012 Civic Si coupe. I washed thoroughly, clayed the car, did my paint correction, applied 2 coats of the coating, then applied CarPro Reload. Over the course of the few days I did all of this, the car never left my garage.


When the coating was first put on and for about 2 months afterwards, I could actually somewhat “see” the coating. It looked like a very thin layer of “glass” over the paint. I could tell by smearing my finger on the car, and seeing the oils from my fingerprint on the coating, rather than the paint itself. It looked like the oils were on top of the paint- if that makes sense.


Fast forward to today, my car has lost a significant amount of water beading capabilities, feels actually quite rough to the touch, and I can not “see” the coating like I used to. To the touch, the paint feels “grabby” and not slick or even really that smooth. It feels like it could honestly go for a clay bar and coat of wax to make it better or back to normal. I genuinely feel like it’s no longer there.


My maintenance includes washing one time per week with CarPro Reset and a detail afterwards with CarPro ECH2O dilution. I recently reapplied the CarPro Reload- which helped a little bit really not much.


I spent a lot of time and hard work putting this on and had high expectations, but to see the performance of my coating after 3 months, I feel disappointed now. I’ve driven the car maybe a few hundred miles since I put it on. The car also remains outside in South Florida (rain, heat, grass clippings, etc.)


Is there something I did wrong? I can provide extensive detail on my processes if necessary. Is this normal?

Thanks for any input!
 
Obvious question here: you did prep the paint after your correction? What did you use to remove the oils?

The only other thing I can think of is that pollen or something could have clogged the coating’s pores, but seems like your regular washing with Reset should prevent it? What dilution do you use for Reset?

Disclaimer, I’m not a coating person but I know some of the questions to ask and things that could go wrong from using ceramics. Others with real experience will be on there way to help soon, I’m guessing.
 
If I had to guess I'd say it's Reload. That spray sealant will reduce the performance of the coating, I don't even understand why CarPro still tells people to put that over their coatings.

Wash it really good with Reset, it won't take more than a few weeks for Reload to be gone, it doesn't last very long. Once it's gone the coating should be back to working well. If you want to top it at that point, then use Elixir, maybe once a month.

The coating will feel a bit grabby, that's normal. CarPro came out with Gliss to address that. But feeling grabby doesn't mean it won't perform, it will still work well.

As for being able to see the coating, it's hard to understand how. The coating is so thin, I don't think one could see it without a microscope.
 
acuRAS82 said:
Obvious question here: you did prep the paint after your correction? What did you use to remove the oils?

The only other thing I can think of is that pollen or something could have clogged the coating’s pores, but seems like your regular washing with Reset should prevent it? What dilution do you use for Reset?

Disclaimer, I’m not a coating person but I know some of the questions to ask and things that could go wrong from using ceramics. Others with real experience will be on there way to help soon, I’m guessing.
Click to expand...


Hello, after polishing/correcting, I did not prep the paint any further. I honestly was not aware that this was a step. I just finished my polishing, wiped off residue with microfibers, then let the car sit until the next day when I began applying the coating. I had no idea that oils had to be removed prior to applying the coating.

What product should be used in order to do this?

For Reset, I use a 1:25 dilution. 1 oz Reset with 25 oz water.
 
It is time for a decon wash. CarPro recommends it. One thing to keep in mind is that coatings are not contaminant proof. Give it a go and that should help.

Reload also has the tendency to mask the coatings behavior.

From their site.

Coating Maintenance:

The best thing to do is start using CarPro Reset to wash with regularly. Other soaps can leave residue that temporarily messes up the beading and allows dust and dirt to stick more readily.
Wash Mitt:

Microfiber Madness Incredimitt (Recommended for daily drivers and most cars - This mitt is easiest to maintain and is extremely durable as well as washing out most easily)
Merino Wool Wash Mitt (Recommended if car has extremely soft paint or car does not get extremely dirty)
Drying Towel: CarPro or Microfiber Madness.
Quick Detailing
: CarPro ECH2o Concentrate and Microfiber Madness Crazy Pile towels (need about 3-6 towels)
Occasionally (every 3 to 6 months) decontaminate surface with CarPro Iron X. Use during wash cycle (after Reset) and as directed.
If using CarPro Reload as topper: use every 3-12 months, for special occasions or any time you like.


I also see you did not use Eraser or some sort of panel prep after polishing. That could also be affecting the coating as the paint has to be clean.

If contamination exists, CarPro Iron X and clay your vehicle before polishing.
To gain the most from Cquartz your vehicle should have all surfaces 100% clean and paint polished to a high level.
Use CarPro Reflect to achieve an incredible high gloss finish in less time with no fillers.
Use CarPro Eraser to remove any oils leftover after polishing - This is critical to ensure durability of CQuartz.
We recommend coating removal towels: CarPro 2 Face (No Lint) 16" x 16" - Blue/ Orange 10 Pack, Microfiber Madness Slogger (16" x 16") or Edgeless White Polish Towel - 16" x 16".
We recommend extra suede applicators if applying more than 1 coat - CarPro Suede MicroFiber Applicator 4"x4" 10 PACK.
Finding the right time to "level" (wipe off) excess coating after it flashes:
Start with a single 2ft x 2ft test section to determine flash time before applying coating to entire vehicle. Flash time will vary depending on temperature, humidity, air movement, paint type, how thick it is applied, and more.
If coating is applied thick then the coating will take longer to flash. If applied thin it will flash faster. Hot temps will cause it to flash faster, cold temps will cause it to flash slower. Air movement will cause it to flash faster.
When it starts to flash you will see colors that will make the coating look like a rainbow or oil slick.
Remove too soon and it will be oily with no grab to it when wiping. If you wipe off too soon it will not give the coating a chance to bond.
Remove too late and it becomes hard to remove.
The time to remove is when you feel just a little push back or "grab" against your towel but it is not difficult to remove and it is no longer oily. It may leave some streaks at first but with the second wipe of a fresh clean side of the towel, the streaks should wipe off and the paint should be nice and clear.
Lighting - Lighting is key to make sure you wipe off completely when you do wipe off. You don't want spot lighting like you would use on paint correction, but ambient lighting. Look at the paint from different angles to make sure none of the coating is missed. Spot lighting will "wash out" the high spots visually. Think of it like this: when you wipe off a sealant you have hours to go and check it again outside or in other lighting. In this case you need to pay attention as you go rather than wait an hour. Thorough removal of the coating is very necessary as any product left on the surface will harden and require polishing to remove soon after.
Cquartz Tio2 - Wait between 1-5 minutes depending on temps, humidity, and paint and find the right window to wipe when you’re doing your test panel. Generally in summer temps 2-3 min. Too soon and it will still be oily. Too late and it becomes hard to remove.
High spots - A high spot is excess coating that was not leveled (wiped off). Most of the time it will look like an application mark. If you discover them within minutes then a bit more product will lift them. Otherwise you would use a dot of finishing polish such as CarPro Essence or CarPro Reflect and rub the high spot off, wipe it down with CarPro Eraser or your IPA of choice, and then re-coat that area and onto the area around it by about 6". Then start wiping off the perimeter immediately and slowly work inwards to feather it until you reach the area you are trying to re-coat at the appropriate time.
 
BSoares said:
If I had to guess I'd say it's Reload. That spray sealant will reduce the performance of the coating, I don't even understand why CarPro still tells people to put that over their coatings.

Wash it really good with Reset, it won't take more than a few weeks for Reload to be gone, it doesn't last very long. Once it's gone the coating should be back to working well. If you want to top it at that point, then use Elixir, maybe once a month.

The coating will feel a bit grabby, that's normal. CarPro came out with Gliss to address that. But feeling grabby doesn't mean it won't perform, it will still work well.

As for being able to see the coating, it's hard to understand how. The coating is so thin, I don't think one could see it without a microscope.
Click to expand...

I think I’ll stop using Reload. What advantage will Elixir provide over just leaving the coating bare? Is it a Reload alternative in some sort? How often should Elixir be applied? Also, does Gliss simply just address the slickness of the coating?
 
Dreichler said:
I think I’ll stop using Reload. What advantage will Elixir provide over just leaving the coating bare? Is it a Reload alternative in some sort? How often should Elixir be applied? Also, does Gliss simply just address the slickness of the coating?
Click to expand...

You can certainly use the coating by itself. I suggested Elixir because you said you were using Reload so I assumed you wanted to top the coating like many people do. Elixir actually has some Reload in it. As well as Hydro2 and Ech2o. It's just a better maintenance product if you choose to top the coating but it's optional, not necessary.

Gliss adds slickness and maybe some additional hydrophobicity to the coating. Maybe even some more gloss. But now that you've topped it with Reload, it's too late, Gliss won't bond well. Next time you you can use that as a top coat and it will give you that slick feeling you were looking for.
 
BSoares said:
1oz of Reset to 25oz of water? That's way too much soap, too strong. Use 1oz of Reset in about 4 gallons of water in your wash bucket.
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I’m sorry, I have it backwards. My ECH2O is 1:25 for use of a quick detailer.
My reset dilution is about 1 Tablespoon to 3 gallons of water.
 
BSoares said:
You can certainly use the coating by itself. I suggested Elixir because you said you were using Reload so I assumed you wanted to top the coating like many people do. Elixir actually has some Reload in it. As well as Hydro2 and Ech2o. It's just a better maintenance product if you choose to top the coating but it's optional, not necessary.

Gliss adds slickness and maybe some additional hydrophobicity to the coating. Maybe even some more gloss. But now that you've topped it with Reload, it's too late, Gliss won't bond well. Next time you you can use that as a top coat and it will give you that slick feeling you were looking for.
Click to expand...


Thank you! Just to clear up with Elixir and Gliss. Is Elixir meant to be used as a quick detailer similar to ECH2O like I do after each wash? Or is it like Reload where I use it maybe every other month? Same for Gliss, I assume Gliss is supposed to be applied maybe once a month or every other month- rather than on a weekly basis. Is it appropriate to apply Gliss without applying Elixir?
 
Dreichler said:
I think I’ll stop using Reload. What advantage will Elixir provide over just leaving the coating bare? Is it a Reload alternative in some sort? How often should Elixir be applied? Also, does Gliss simply just address the slickness of the coating?
Click to expand...

Elixr is CarPro's quick detail spray to go with their coatings. I don't think there would be any advantage from a protection standpoint to leaving the coating bare as it isn't designed to extend the life of the coating like Reload. There may be a little protective "something" in Elixr, but it wouldn't be much and it probably won't last long.

I've used Elixr after washing a few times to remove water spots. It does boost the gloss a bit, makes the surface slicker, and I've not seen any issues with the coating itself. I've also used CarPro's Ech2O mixed to QD ratios and it works much like Elixr, but doesn't provide quite as much gloss.

From an overall experience standpoint, one thing Guz highlighted is the use of Eraser after polishing and before applying the coating. I believe just about every coating, if not all, require a similar step with a similar type product to remove any oils left behind by the polish. If they are not removed it could interfere with bond the coating makes with the paint and make it less durable.
 
Dreichler said:
Thank you! Just to clear up with Elixir and Gliss. Is Elixir meant to be used as a quick detailer similar to ECH2O like I do after each wash? Or is it like Reload where I use it maybe every other month? Same for Gliss, I assume Gliss is supposed to be applied maybe once a month or every other month- rather than on a weekly basis. Is it appropriate to apply Gliss without applying Elixir?
Click to expand...

Elixir is a quick detailer, you could use it after every wash but if you have the Ech2o already mixed, alternate the two as the protection from Elixir will last a couple weeks.

Gliss is a top coating. You apply it the same way you applied your coating. It has to be done immediately after the coating to bond properly, not after washing and applying other products. Gliss is supposed to last about a year.
 
It was Reload. I've never had good luck with Reload. Reload lets contamination build up until the coating is dead basically, beading wise. It'll still protect your car but.. there will be no beading after that.
 
Dreichler said:
Hello, after polishing/correcting, I did not prep the paint any further. I honestly was not aware that this was a step. I just finished my polishing, wiped off residue with microfibers, then let the car sit until the next day when I began applying the coating. I had no idea that oils had to be removed prior to applying the coating.

What product should be used in order to do this?
Click to expand...
Eraser, or any coating prep spray, or IPA will remove the polishing oils. What was the last polish you corrected with? That polish will determine how many oils got left behind.
 
From my limited experience you have to remove oils , use IPA /paint prep ( the chemistry behind bonded to paint is important)( just as important as polishing)
 
I had an almost identical experience as you except after my paint prep I did remove the oils. I actually started a thread a few weeks back discussing my disappointment in the Carpro CQuartz uk and gliss coating I performed. Some folks thought it was my selection of soap but that was not it.

Here is what my problem was ——-> Pollen. It basically took the coating’s beading ability and clogged it. The protection was there but not the beading. Now that pollen season is almost over I have nice beading back and am still using the same soap as always - chemical guys honey dew. One thing I added was iron x a few washes back and it helped.

For the roughness you feel, I had that same symptom. Although Carpro recommends to not clay the car, I did anyways. Very carefully, very lightly and made sure the surface was super slick and lubricated. Then I washed the car again and the beading is as expected which is very good.

My Advice - iron x the car, wash it, then clay it carefully, rewash it, and you should be ok. Good luck.
 
acuRAS82 said:
Eraser, or any coating prep spray, or IPA will remove the polishing oils. What was the last polish you corrected with? That polish will determine how many oils got left behind.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I used Griots Complete Polish.
 
Dreichler said:
Thank you! Just to clear up with Elixir and Gliss. Is Elixir meant to be used as a quick detailer similar to ECH2O like I do after each wash? Or is it like Reload where I use it maybe every other month? Same for Gliss, I assume Gliss is supposed to be applied maybe once a month or every other month- rather than on a weekly basis. Is it appropriate to apply Gliss without applying Elixir?
Click to expand...

Elixir as mentioned is a quick detailer. Unlike EcH2O it will leave protection behind as it contains elements of Reload and Hydro2. If you like protection then you can invest in a bottle and use it. You could alternate between it and EcH2O. Or you could stick with EcH2O but it will not leave protection behind but rather gloss enhancement.

Review - CarPro Elixir Quick Detailer

Gliss on the other hand is a top coat. Think of this as Reload on steroids. It will not only leave slickness but it also contains anti-water spotting properties, gloss, same 110 degree contact angle as the base layer coating. Ideally it is to be applied at the same time as the original coating. You can put it on an aged coating but you would need to strip any toppers that are on the surface such as Reload. You don't need this as Cquartz TiO2 is more stain resistant than Cquartz UK 3.0. TiO2 is close to the slickness of Gliss.

As I mentioned you need a decon wash every 3 months. That will keep the coating as contaminant free as possible. Here is how I would use it. First wash the car with Reset at the standard 1.3 oz per 5 gallon dilution. Sheet rinse most of the water. Spray Ironx or equivalent and agitate with a damp microfiber. Rinse and wash with Reset one more time. This should bring back the coating.

If you really want to ensure a smooth surface then pick up the 22ple caly bar. It is a non-abrasive clay bar that will not marr the paint. It was designed for glass coatings. Use EcH2O as clay lube. Regular clay will marr no matter if it is fine grade.

I just did this on an 18 month old coating and it brought some life back from the coating.

There are write ups on detailed image on the clay bar.

I went about 21 months on Cquartz on my personal car with no toppers.

The daily with CQUK 3.0 + Gliss V1
 
The Guz said:
Elixir as mentioned is a quick detailer. Unlike EcH2O it will leave protection behind as it contains elements of Reload and Hydro2. If you like protection then you can invest in a bottle and use it. You could alternate between it and EcH2O. Or you could stick with EcH2O but it will not leave protection behind but rather gloss enhancement.

Review - CarPro Elixir Quick Detailer

Gliss on the other hand is a top coat. Think of this as Reload on steroids. It will not only leave slickness but it also contains anti-water spotting properties, gloss, same 110 degree contact angle as the base layer coating. Ideally it is to be applied at the same time as the original coating. You can put it on an aged coating but you would need to strip any toppers that are on the surface such as Reload. You don't need this as Cquartz TiO2 is more stain resistant than Cquartz UK 3.0. TiO2 is close to the slickness of Gliss.

As I mentioned you need a decon wash every 3 months. That will keep the coating as contaminant free as possible. Here is how I would use it. First wash the car with Reset at the standard 1.3 oz per 5 gallon dilution. Sheet rinse most of the water. Spray Ironx or equivalent and agitate with a damp microfiber. Rinse and wash with Reset one more time. This should bring back the coating.

If you really want to ensure a smooth surface then pick up the 22ple caly bar. It is a non-abrasive clay bar that will not marr the paint. It was designed for glass coatings. Use EcH2O as clay lube. Regular clay will marr no matter if it is fine grade.

I just did this on an 18 month old coating and it brought some life back from the coating.

There are write ups on detailed image on the clay bar.

I went about 21 months on Cquartz on my personal car with no toppers.

The daily with CQUK 3.0 + Gliss V1
Click to expand...

I appreciate the advice and guidance! So spraying my car down with something like IronX won’t harm the coating? I think it is about time for the decon wash, but haven’t heard of it- so trying to gather info on that.
 
Dreichler said:
I appreciate the advice and guidance! So spraying my car down with something like IronX won’t harm the coating? I think it is about time for the decon wash, but haven’t heard of it- so trying to gather info on that.
Click to expand...

Perfectly fine. See my first post as I copied the directions and maintenance tips straight from CarPro.
 
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