1973 Lotus Europa oxidized original paint

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rjbaren

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1973 Lotus Europa oxidized original paint


Hello Mike,

I am new here and I don't know much about detailing. I bought a 1973 Lotus Europa with a fiberglass body that was disassembled 25 years ago and sat in a garage dirty and got dirtier over the years. 2 years later it is now a runner and the paint is very oxidized.

The shop I had the car in said they would not recommend having the car buffed. The shop owner thought the detail shop would burn through the paint.

I washed the car and tried some Meguiar's 105 by hand on a panel with not much success. I went to Meguiar's on line help and they told me my mistake is trying to do it by hand. I want to do it by hand for safety and of course, keep the original paint.

I found your post about using Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze by hand. I have put on three coats on the horizontal panels with some good success. I see reflections now. I still have a few days more work to do to finish the whole car three times over. I am also still seeing some dirty swirls from my hand work that I can't seem to make go away.

My question, What's the next step? I have Meguiar's 105 Ultra Cut, Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish, Meguiar's Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax, and Meguiar's Polymer Sealant. I also have a bottle of Zymol wax too.

Thank you very much,

Rick in the Chicago area


:)
 
Hi Rick,

See my replies below.

For those reading this into the future, here's a recent video we made where I share the #7 Rub Down Technique for saving antique and original paint.

LIVE Detailing Class - Restoring original paint with Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze


And if you need the #7 or the towels I recommend, here's the links.



On Autogeek.com


Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #7 Show Car Glaze


Griot's Garage PFM Wax Removal Towel - 4-pack


I'd suggest getting 2- 3 of the 4 packs of the Griot's Garage PFM Wax Removal Towels. You'll only need one towel to apply the #7 but you could easily use the others to make wiping off the #7 easy on you and easy on the paint.



And I have a number of articles on this technique most with lots of pictures and information.

All Mike Phillips #7 Show Car Glaze Articles in one place



:)
 
rjbaren said:
Hello Mike,

I am new here and I don't know much about detailing. I bought a 1973 Lotus Europa with a fiberglass body that was disassembled 25 years ago and sat in a garage dirty and got dirtier over the years.

2 years later it is now a runner and the paint is very oxidized.

The shop I had the car in said they would not recommend having the car buffed. The shop owner thought the detail shop would burn through the paint. I washed the car and tried some Meguiar's 105 by hand on a panel with not much success. I went to Meguiar's online help and they told me my mistake is trying to do it by hand. I want to do it by hand for safety and of course, keep the original paint.

I found your post about using Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze by hand. I have put on three coats on the horizontal panels with some good success. I see reflections now.
Click to expand...


That is such a great story.

I'm sorry to say, but when you contact the customer care department at any company, often times the staff you get on the phone don't actually have a background in or actually do the "think" you're inquiring about.

I'm pretty sure no one at Meguiar's has ever rubbed down antique single stage paint using #7. Me? I've done it hundreds of times and by the view count on my original article and from just normal real-life expereince talking to people over the phone and every other type of communication option I know of helped THOUSANDS of people to restore antique and original single stage paint.

Including personally hand rubbing this old car with #7 for this old car guy.


Wayne_Carini_Hudson_Restored_By_Mike_Phillips_005.jpg


Wayne_Carini_Hudson_Restored_By_Mike_Phillips_015.jpg



And this my friends is one of the most rewarding pictures I've ever taken. This shot was taken after we finished polishing every square inch of paint and then applying a coat of Souveran Paste Wax.

Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_006.jpg


This is what I'm talking about....

Mike_Phillips_Wayne_Carini_03.jpg





:)
 
Continued...



rjbaren said:
I still have a few days more work to do to finish the whole car three times over. I am also still seeing some dirty swirls from my hand work that I can't seem to make go away.

My question, What's the next step? I have Meguiar's 105 Ultra Cut, Meguiar's Deep Crystal Polish, Meguiar's Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax, and Meguiar's Polymer Sealant. I also have a bottle of Zymol wax too.

Thank you very much,
Rick in the Chicago area
Click to expand...


I wish I were there to help you. I've taught 2 Roadshow Classes in Chicago last year. So I've been in your backyard.


Here's the deal, some old single stage paints simply Do NOT like to be machine polished. There are accounts of this on this forum by other forum members and I've experienced it myself.

The only way to know or find out is to do some testing.

Out of the products you've listed, the only product that will work to remove the swirls is the M105 Ultra Cut. The other products are all NON-ABRASIVE.

2 things you can try.

I'm assuming you're applying the #7 with cotton terrycloth? If so, it's kind of scratchy. So switch over to a microfiber applicator pad. Meguiar's makes a great one. We sell it here and you can often times find it an your local auto parts store if they carry Meguiar's.

It's all about working your way out from most aggressive to least aggressive. If you start with cotton toweling, switch to microfiber toweling and then switch to foam. (all work being done by hand)



If you want to try to improve the finish by machine then my recommendation would be to get a simple Porter Cable 7424XP, a 5" backing plate and some very simple Lake Country 5.5" foam flat pads. Specifically the white and black foam pads. White = "polishing" and the black = "finishing".

This tool is incredible safe but also has the power to remove things like swirls and scratches.


Then test the M105, first on the black pad and then on the white pad. Only do a TEST SPOT - make sure it's not only removing the swirls and scratches but also make sure it's not DULLING the paint. Some old single stage paint polishes up like a diamond and sometimes machine polishing simply dulls it down. You won't know until you do some testing.



:)
 
Watch the video in this how-to article. I coined the term TEST SPOT as it's used in this industry and feel pretty confident when I say this video shows you exactly how to do one.


How to do a Test Spot and then buff out your car! Video Explanation by Mike Phillips


This is my opinion is one of the best videos Yancy and I have ever made together and also one of the easiest to follow, understand and then implement the techniques video on the topic.



I coined the term Test Spot for this industry so I think I'm qualified to explain how do one as well as WHY to do one.


Test Spot - The story behind the story...


:)
 
I have also had GREAT luck using the BLACKFIRE One Step to restore antique single stage paint.

It's not near as aggressive as the M105 and it uses AMAZING abrasive technology. I just created this thread to let my forum freinds and lurkers know that as I type, Autogeek is running a super sale and you can get this product for cheap.


When it's on SALE - GETS SOME! - BLACKFIRE ONE STEP




IN the above thread I share this real-world story of how one of my classes saved the antique paint on a 1940 Buick. This is the REAL-DEAL. This car came out freaking amazing.


Here's another write-up I did for that car in that roadshow class.


Before and After Barn Find using BLACKFIRE One Step - 1940 Buick



This is antique single stage paint on a 1940 Buick Coupe purchased from a collection at an estate sale. The people that attended my Auburn, Indiana Roadshow Class did all the paint correction work and deserve all the credit.



Cleaned, polished and waxed in One Step

1940BuickBeforeandAfter.jpg





So it's possible the paint on your old Lotus can sparkle like a diamond but you wont' know until you do some testing.

The good news is - if you choose to get the polisher, some pads and the BLACKFIRE One Step - if it doesn't work on the Lotus it will still work great on everything else you drive.




:)
 
And....


Here's the link to the Lake Country 5.5" flat pads....

Normally I would use and recommend the white pad with the BF One Step and even the M105 as single stage paints, (except for white), tend to be soft so you don't need to use aggressive pads. BUT when testing, sometimes you want to go with the LEAST AGGRESSIVE process first and see what happens. You can always get more aggressive if the results look good from the less aggressive approach.


White Lake Country 5 1/2 Inch Flat Foam Pad

Black Lake Country 5 1/2 Inch Flat Foam Pad




The Porter Cable comes with one foam pad glued to a plastic backing plate and because the foam is SO THICK it's basically useless.

Here's the link to the right backing plate for the PC and the above pads.

Dual-Action Hook & Loop Flexible Backing Plate 5"




Hope the above all helps. I appreciate you joined THIS forum to get help when you could have went to a myriad of Facebook Groups or Instagram personalities to ask for help.


:cheers:
 
I have done a couple of test spots by hand on an area that I have already applied 3 coats of Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze. Meguiar's 105 Ultra compound just dulls the paint. I also tried two different 1 step cleaner waxes and they also seem to dull the paint. Next I tried Meguiar's Deep Crystal System Polish and that seems to enhance the shine of the #7 Show Car Glaze. I think this is an old and out of date product and I don't have enough to do the whole car. What would you suggest I use in place of this polish?
 
rjbaren said:
I have done a couple of test spots by hand on an area that I have already applied 3 coats of Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze. Meguiar's 105 Ultra compound just dulls the paint. I also tried two different 1 step cleaner waxes and they also seem to dull the paint.
Click to expand...

Yep - sometimes that's how it goes.



rjbaren said:
Next I tried Meguiar's Deep Crystal System Polish and that seems to enhance the shine of the #7 Show Car Glaze. I think this is an old and out of date product and I don't have enough to do the whole car.

What would you suggest I use in place of this polish?
Click to expand...

The Deep Crystal Step 2 Polish WAS the consumer version of #7.

If it were me, make the last #7 rub down step using a foam pad - not any type of fiber pad. Fibers are abrasives. The foam and your elbow grease should have a smoothing-over affect.

Then seal the paint with a traditional Carnauba Wax.

That's about the best you can do. Also - TEST the wax. It's possible the wax can dull down the results of the #7.


Hey - NEED A PICTURE when you're all done.



:)
 
Hi Mike, I have followed your advice with the #7 Show Car Glaze. Three applications. I tried Meguiar's 105 and it dulled down the shine. Then I tried Meguiar's Ultimate Polish on the hood and at first it looked good. The next day it looked dull so I went over it again with #7 and got my shine back.

I am about ready to wax but under my garage florescent light, if I move my head, I can see the different areas where I stopped and started. How can I connect or smooth over these areas so it looks good before applying the wax?

Thank you again
 
rjbaren said:
Hi Mike, I have followed your advice with the #7 Show Car Glaze. Three applications.

I tried Meguiar's 105 and it dulled down the shine.

Then I tried Meguiar's Ultimate Polish on the hood and at first it looked good. The next day it looked dull
Click to expand...

Sometime in the last week or two, I had this same conversation - that is - AFTER the #7 Rub Down - IF you try to abrade the paint - that is, use a

Compound
Polish
AIO

The paint don't like it and the abrading dulls the paint down.

But - you won't and don't know what's going to happen until like you did - you do some testing.



rjbaren said:
so I went over it again with #7 and got my shine back.
Click to expand...

Yep - That will tend to fix it.




rjbaren said:
I am about ready to wax but under my garage florescent light, if I move my head, I can see the different areas where I stopped and started. How can I connect or smooth over these areas so it looks good before applying the wax?

Thank you again
Click to expand...

Re-apply the #7 using a MICROFIBER applicator pad by hand. The microfiber is the abrasive and the #7 is the lubricant. This will "affect" the paint and create a uniform appearance but remember - FIBERS are ABRASIVES.


Next - re-polish with a FOAM applicator pad by hand. This will SMOOTH over the paint and undo any hazing from the fibers.

Next - wax.

BUT - be sure to test the wax. Most waxes will dull down #7 polished single stage paint.


:)
 
The foam applicator by hand really helped. It is not perfect by a longshot buy then again, neither is the body. I still used terry cloth to remove the #7 as the microfiber cloth didn't help at all.
 
Now here may be a tough one. My Lagoon Blue Lotus has gold pinstripe tape all over the place and 99% of it is in good shape. I scrapped a tiny spot with a razor blade and it is a brighter gold under there but I am sure I will go outside the line and scratch up the nearby paint. Now that I have wiped a blue slurry of polish all over the pinstripe tape, is there a way of getting ae brighter gold color back on the pinstripe tape?
 
rjbaren said:
Now here may be a tough one. My Lagoon Blue Lotus has gold pinstripe tape all over the place and 99% of it is in good shape. I scrapped a tiny spot with a razor blade and it is a brighter gold under there but I am sure I will go outside the line and scratch up the nearby paint. Now that I have wiped a blue slurry of polish all over the pinstripe tape, is there a way of getting ae brighter gold color back on the pinstripe tape?
Click to expand...


I usually buff over most pinstripes - painted or vinyl - using whatever polish i"m using or AIO I'm using. I normally don't do this with compounds as they can be too aggressive.

As long as you use a light touch when hand polishing or machine polishing - you'll tend to remove years of oxidation off the stripes and also road film and any other surface contamination and the result is a brighter, more clear stripes.


At the end of the day, whatever you get is what you get.


Where's the pictures?


:)
 
Not done yet. I still have half the car to go with the foam and then test out the wax. Plus, I want to find a good place to take the photos.
 
Today I drove my Lotus to show the gentleman who rebuilt my engine my car. He has only seen the engine so far. He thought the body looked pretty good and this was without wax. He is restoring an MG TF for himself. In the shop where he is working, next to his engine shop, is a Lamborghini Countach, a 289 Cobra, an XKE convertible, and Aston martin DB5 coupe, a real GT40 and a Lola T70 plus two old jeeps. I feel as though he know his British cars.

anyway, I have finally finished with the #7 Show Car Glaze and I am testing waxes. I have tried Zymol cleaner wax and it doesn't look so good. Next, I tried Meguiar's Polymer sealant and it looks OK, but not great. Lastly, I tried Johnson's paste wax for wood, metal, and plastic and it seems to be the best so far. It's not even a car wax. My wife uses it for a wooden table.
Is this possible?
 
rjbaren said:
Today I drove my Lotus to show the gentleman who rebuilt my engine my car. He has only seen the engine so far. He thought the body looked pretty good and this was without wax. He is restoring an MG TF for himself. In the shop where he is working, next to his engine shop, is a Lamborghini Countach, a 289 Cobra, an XKE convertible, and Aston martin DB5 coupe, a real GT40 and a Lola T70 plus two old jeeps.

I feel as though he know his British cars.
Click to expand...

I's say he knows his British cars.

For what it's worth, like others before me, I went through my British car faze.

2 - MGAs - 1959 and a 1962
2 - Triumph Spitfires - a 1974 and a 1975
2 - MG Midgets - a 1964 and a 1965

Was fun at the time but at heart, I'm a big block Chevy guy. Here's just one thing I owned with a Big Block Chevy

1966 Milk Truck

2truckstude.jpg





rjbaren said:
anyway, I have finally finished with the #7 Show Car Glaze and I am testing waxes.
Click to expand...

A lot of work but my guess is, if your goal was to preserve the original paint - then it was worth it.


rjbaren said:
I have tried Zymol cleaner wax and it doesn't look so good.
Next, I tried Meguiar's Polymer sealant and it looks OK, but not great.
Lastly, I tried Johnson's paste wax for wood, metal, and plastic and it seems to be the best so far. It's not even a car wax. My wife uses it for a wooden table.

Is this possible?
Click to expand...


Yep. Completely possible.


Let me see if I can get into the DETAILS. Or go DEEP on this topic. :laughing:


The reason most waxes will DULL DOWN the results created by #7 on antique single stage paint is due to the fact that the paint is porous and you've just painstakingly massaged and loaded it up with an oil that brings out the full richness of color in the pigments.

Most waxes, both liquid and paste, have some level of solvent in them as a carrying agent to suspend the other ingredients. Back to the single stage paint being porous - because it's porous, when you apply a wax or sealant, the solvents tend to soak into the paint, dissolve the #7 oils and then when you wipe off the wax or sealant, you take with it some portion of the oils and this plus solvents tend to dull surfaces anyways, the paint will look LESS vibrant and rich and even dull.

It's a tough nut to crack.





:)
 
More....


Recently, I hand-rubbed the original paint on a 1937 Packard. We turned this into a LIVE detailing class to show others how to do this type of thing.


LIVE Detailing Class - Restoring original paint with Meguiar's #7 Show Car Glaze


I tested 3 non-cleaning waxes - hoping one of them would either maintain the richness of color and clarity the #7 restored and also created but each one of them absolutly DULLED the paint down. I figured this would happen. These are all great products and one of them included Meguiar's M26 - which did kind of surprise me.

So I went back to what I knew or at least had a hunch would work.

Meguiar's #16 Professional Paste Wax

The_Number_7_Rub_Down_Technique_050.JPG


The_Number_7_Rub_Down_Technique_051.JPG





And I'm happy and relieved to say it worked. It didn't add anything to the results created by the #7 but it didn't take anything away from the results created by the #7 and that's all I was hoping and dreaming for.


The_Number_7_Rub_Down_Technique_077.JPG






I have a few cans of this in my antique wax collection. If you would like to try it - send me your shipping address and I'll send you a can as a free gift to show my appreciation to you. I appreciate that you trusted my name and the Autogeek name enough to

A: Join this forum where there are so many other social media touch point and gurus out there you could have went to.

B: Take my advice and do the #7 Rub Down Technique to a car that is apparently important enough to you that you want to get it right the first time and avoid repainting it.

C: Stuck through the process from start to where you're at now - still coming back looking for help.



So PM me your shipping address or shoot me an e-mail and I'll get it out today. I will also open the can and make sure it's good because it's at least 15 years old.

I'll also "Break-in" the can of wax and make a short video explaining how to break-in a can of a REAL traditional heavy wax. This way I can,

A: Show how to break-in a can of wax.

B: Send you a can of wax that's ready to use.


How's that?


PM or here's my e-mail

[email protected]



:)
 
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