Prototype Lake Country Hydro-tech pads - Testing, Results and Reviews

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Eric - Will product/material(paint) overload/oversaturation of the pad cause failure or center softening?
 
Products overload ( too much polish), to much pressure, and heat will break it down. I am trying to think of a good comparison that will make sense.
 
yes it is. Think about this. Let me know if this makes sense. Put a dot of lotion on your hands, massage it in. no problem, works fine. Now do it again, but this time rub your hands together as fast as you can, the heat has to go somewhere.

I am only using that analgy as in WI here in winter, my hands have a tendancy to crack due to dryness, chemicals, etc.
 
Eric -
Makes total sense and is what I've been doing all along. As a recap, these pads require a little more understanding by the user in comparison to many other pads. It is vital to not only their survival, but their effectiveness to be used clean and 100% dry. Oversaturation of anything (polish/water/abraded paint) can and will overwork the pad and cause it to ultimately fail prematurely. I personally have never had a problem with any LC pads but have noticed strange things occurring after closely analyzing the pattern of behavior that has been paralleled to other's techniques. When using M105 via DA, I think it its imperative to clean your pad after each section. I not only wipe the face of the pad, but also use a stiff brush to loosen up the debris/polish and then use compressed air to purge it out after every section. I then switch to a fresh pad after each average sized panel (door/fender/quarter/trunk). I have never witnessed any premature failure to the backing material or the face of the pad when using this technique. I'd be willing to bet that if people who experience problems should try fine tuning their technique to see if there is any improvement. I'm certain that it will create a better level of correction with less pad induced micro marring, and increase the longevity of pad life as well, ultimately saving you money and time.

Tell me if this makes sense?
 
Okay, so I agree to some extent, BUT, to use 1 pad per panel and ONLY when completely dry is COMPLETELY unreasonable. It removes the largest portion of your target customer-base. So, if you use 1 pad per panel, with an average of 9 panels per vehicle (for a 2-door vehicle only) and most use a 2-step process which means the average person would need to order 18 pads with their first order. Not only that, but you'd have to order at least 36 pads (18 of each pad) in order to do more than 1 car in 2 consecutive days unless you had a way to dry your pads externally, but even still, you'd need to start your order with 18 pads, use EXTREME amounts of caution while using them so they don't destroy themselves and go to completely unreasonable extents to make them last an acceptable amount of time. None of which you have to do with the CCS pads...

Sounds like a no brainer to me. I'll stick with CCS then. I love the correction abilities of the HT pads, but I don't have $180-360 +shipping sitting around to buy a batch of pads that I basically have to use with a surgeon's hands to keep them from destroying themselves. The Tangerine pad I used today worked out perfectly. The backing going to the edge of the pad seems to have resolved the tearing at the edge of the pads. That should help some people take the plunge to purchase them, but unless other alternatives can be come up with that make them reasonable to use then you're pretty much sectioning out a very very large portion of the people who are on the fence.

I would imagine most of us want a product we don't need to baby with every use or invest a ton of money in order to be able to use within the parameters you've set above. Anyway, you've read how many people are on the fence to buy these pads pending a resolution to the failure issues of which we're trying to demonstrate and resolve.
 
You dont necessairly need that many pads, but when the get loaded, they should be changed. A DA type polisher does have its limits compared to a rotary.
 
I understand that, but was going by David's recommended process and procedure for the HT pads.

A DA polisher also has advantages that a rotary doesn't as well to keep things fair in that statement, and the new DA polishers are quickly closing that gap if not overlapping it.

I really don't think things would be that different even if we'd had several of each pad to test. If you look at the Cyan pad from yesterday in John's photos, you'll notice that even that pad looks like it's been through several cars and not just half of one car. He didn't clean his pad until he was finished.

I used the Tangerine pad today with M205 and it worked absolutely perfectly. No wear, no tear, no softening in the center even at the end of the day. I washed it once all day and that was after I was finished, though I probably should have rinsed it sooner being as there was some very, very light marring at the rear of the car as I was finishing up. I'm not sure how the Tangerine pad will hold up over several cars or with a more aggressive product, but with 205 on the Griot's at speed 6, it was pretty amazing.
 
I didn"t like the original hydro pads. I will be sticking to what I know works! Thanks for the review!
 
Well Premium, I wouldn't give up on the HT pads yet. They really are fantastic pads. There are issues that need to be resolved, but I believe they're fixable if people are dedicated to resolving what's wrong with them.
 
From a technical standpoint, I feel the issues have been resolved. Everyone has a different technique for polishing.
 
Fair enough Eric. Thanks for allowing us the opportunity to test out the changes you've made. It was fun. Felt like we could actually contribute something to the community other than pictures of the work we're doing.

Just so we know, what are the changes you're going to apply based on those of us who've participated in the testing of the pad changes you've made? Just so everyone knows what the future holds for the Hydro-tech pads and us as detailers.

Also, where in my technique do you feel the problem lies with the Cyan pad?
 
From a manufacturing standpoint and know the chemical make-up of the foam. The loaded pad and pressure are causing the problem.
 
O.C.Detailing said:
I understand that, but was going by David's recommended process and procedure for the HT pads.
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You should be incorporating these core techniques with all pads used with DA correction if you want to be able to produce the absolute best results. Also, you don't really need more than 2-3 finishing pads per car. Mainly because there's little, to no paint being abraded and you're more or less refining the slight haze created by the pad in the correction phase.

Yeah, there could be a slight investment for pads, but I don't think it's fair to dismiss product cost when the results speak for themselves. People spend exorbitant amounts on LSP to gets no return on investment. At least these pads are creating real world improvements when used to their fullest potential. Regardless, it's ultimately yours and/or everyone else's decision to buy these pads.

OCD - On a side note, I strongly encourage you try some of the techniques I suggested on cleaning (brushing/blowing out with compressed air) and see if you notice any differences in pad longevity and effectiveness. You might change your view.
 
I have followed this thread because I recently purchased and used my hydros, which I love! I like the exchange between OCD and David because they are offering, I dont want to be so bold as to say polar ends of the spectrum, but definitely different views. I have tried to figure out who I agree with more and its hard to say and I dont think I can. Both parties make a valid point and I agree with some or all of each argument. Basically what im saying is I have seen both parties work online and both are quality detailers to say the least and I appretiate the "bantar" back and forth because it pushed me to evaluate my techniques.

Peace,
Jon
 
I didn't use much pressure on the pad. This can be verified by both VR8 and Jonathan in this thread as both were witness to what I was doing.

I cleaned the pad when it was loaded with too much removed product and paint, but it had the divot LONG before it was necessary to clean or switch pads.

So it seems that 1 person speaking in favor of the pads is over-taking the many of us having problems with them. I'm not sure that's fair to those of us wanting to use the pads but, as is proven by this thread, not wanting to spend money on a pad that WILL fail within a VERY unreasonably short amount of time under STANDARD working conditions using very well-established techniques used by probably MOST of the people who actually have a clue how to detail a vehicle properly.

I will concede that some changes need to be made with new products, but I've shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that I'm doing nothing out of the ordinary to MAKE the pad fail the way it is in the pictures and video I've provided. If this is your final word on this issue, so be it, but I want everyone who reads this post to know that I've detailed more than my fair share of vehicles in the last year and the ONLY pads I've had any issues with have been the Hydro-tech pads. If it had been just one or two pads I could have overlooked this entirely, but we're talking about 15 pads that have had issues that have either led to failure or are well on their way to failure as you can see by my first post in this thread.

Anyway, I still appreciate you letting us test them out. I'm sorry to see that this will be your final word on the issue when enough evidence has been given to show that neither my technique or pressure were issues contributing to what is happening to the pads, but I'll concede and let other people on the site decide for themselves whether the issue is actually resolved or not.

Adam
 
Hey Par, we're all still learning in this profession and passion. None of us knows everything about everything and I'm sure you probably have some things I could pick up and use on a daily basis that would make my life easier. On that note, thank you so much for your kind words. :D
 
O.C.Detailing said:
I didn't use much pressure on the pad. This can be verified by both VR8 and Jonathan in this thread as both were witness to what I was doing.
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I (and many others) use A LOT/a considerable more pressure than you showed on your video. Again w/o problem.

O.C.Detailing said:
I cleaned the pad when it was loaded with too much removed product and paint, but it had the divot LONG before it was necessary to clean or switch pads.
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Right. You cleaned it *when* it was loaded. Too late IMHO. Try cleaning it(brush + air) after each pass to see if there’s a difference.

O.C.Detailing said:
So it seems that 1 person speaking in favor of the pads is over-taking the many of us having problems with them. I'm not sure that's fair to those of us wanting to use the pads but, as is proven by this thread, not wanting to spend money on a pad that WILL fail within a VERY unreasonably short amount of time under STANDARD working conditions using very well-established techniques used by probably MOST of the people who actually have a clue how to detail a vehicle properly.
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I know well over 20 people on various forums that incorporate the same method (KBM) without any problem. These people don’t post here. The people having these problems are in the minority. I’d be willing to take an educated guess at less than 1% of the people using these pads are having and/or reporting problems. That’s a far cry from “many”. I also find that many of these people are using similar techniques, which I (as well as the manufacturer) feel is the root of the problem. Just because you “know how to detail” doesn’t mean you know how these pads work. Before using a DA I knew how to detail, but there’s still a learning curve when confronted with new techniques and products.

O.C.Detailing said:
I will concede that some changes need to be made with new products, but I've shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that I'm doing nothing out of the ordinary to MAKE the pad fail the way it is in the pictures and video I've provided. If this is your final word on this issue, so be it, but I want everyone who reads this post to know that I've detailed more than my fair share of vehicles in the last year and the ONLY pads I've had any issues with have been the Hydro-tech pads. If it had been just one or two pads I could have overlooked this entirely, but we're talking about 15 pads that have had issues that have either led to failure or are well on their way to failure as you can see by my first post in this thread.
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Just to document this; your video showed you using a pad that was used on well over 1/3 of a severely swirled vehicle that wasn’t cleaned properly one time. I consider that abuse of the pad and doesn’t warrant your claim against this product.

O.C.Detailing said:
Anyway, I still appreciate you letting us test them out. I'm sorry to see that this will be your final word on the issue when enough evidence has been given to show that neither my technique or pressure were issues contributing to what is happening to the pads, but I'll concede and let other people on the site decide for themselves whether the issue is actually resolved or not.
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Again, respect the pad and it’s ability or chose not to use it. Nobody is forcing you to buy them. I don’t think it’s fair to discredit a product, a company, it’s spokesman and a reseller just because you aren’t achieving your own desired results.

I think we need to agree to disagree. I don't see this going much further in a positive direction. You've stated your case, I've defended mine. The manufacturer has gone above and beyond to extinguish this controversy. Time to move on and concentrate on our customers and exceeding their expectations.
 
I have noticed with the HT pads, really any pads I use now, that it is better to clean the after each section you finish with the foam brush. By doing this i have notices the pads last longer and it take less time to correct
 
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