Can anything clean these wheels?

While I agree that the wheel brightener will certainly handle the situation, u need to be careful when handling it as the type of acid used can cause slow but permanent damage to internal organs and bones. I would advise on wearing goggles, a respirator and LONG chemical/ acid resistant gloves. If you do a quick google search of the dangers of wheel brightener, you'll see what I mean.

Aw, come on! Meguiar's has been selling this stuff for years and if it was 10% as dangerous as you claim, Barry Meguair would be phoning in "car Crazy" from Lompoc Federal Prison and no common carrier would ship it. The Autogeek warehouse has gallons and gallons of this stuff in the regular plastic Detailer Line jugs. The ones that leak when shipped. How come nobody's dead?

A respirator? Oh yeah, sure. Every professional detailer and dealer detailer has a full blown respirator in his detailing arsenal.

Wheel Brightner is no more dangerous than plenty of other household chemicals, including Drano and EZ Off Oven cleaner.

If your I.Q. is bigger than your shoe size, you'll manage just fine.
 
Aw, come on! Meguiar's has been selling this stuff for years and if it was 10% as dangerous as you claim, Barry Meguair would be phoning in "car Crazy" from Lompoc Federal Prison and no common carrier would ship it. The Autogeek warehouse has gallons and gallons of this stuff in the regular plastic Detailer Line jugs. The ones that leak when shipped. How come nobody's dead?

A respirator? Oh yeah, sure. Every professional detailer and dealer detailer has a full blown respirator in his detailing arsenal.

Wheel Brightner is no more dangerous than plenty of other household chemicals, including Drano and EZ Off Oven cleaner.

If your I.Q. is bigger than your shoe size, you'll manage just fine.



Quote from the thread "be careful with wheel cleaners" on Autopia by Zet:


Some wheel cleaners contain Ammonium Bifluoride. I've been doing some reading on this, and it really is some scary stuff! So I thought I would share my findings...

A product like Meguiar's Wheel Brightener for instance, contains Ammonium Bifluoride (ABF). I should say that I generally like Meguiar's products, and they offer many alternative wheel cleaners without ABF. So this is not to bash a product or brand, but only meant as an example. I would also like to acknowledge Meguiar's for providing downloadable MSDS's from their website, so people are able to know what they are actually dealing with.

The first hint of the health risk is that Wheel Brigtener has a NFPA health rating of 3, which reads: Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given.

I've found valuable information regarding ABF in an article from Professional Carwashing & Detailing Magazine, available here: Article Archives

Here's a few quotes from that article:

Ammonium bifluoride (ABF) is one of the most common, and dangerous, wheel cleaners used in automatic carwashes today. Its effectiveness removing brake dust and difficult contaminants from chrome wheels is undisputed, but some chemists say ABF presents an unjustifiable and potentially lethal risk to carwash operators and their employees.

...

ABF, sometimes known as ammonium fluoride or ammonium hydrogen fluoride, is a crystalline salt formed when ammonium hydroxide reacts with HF. Through a complicated chemical reaction, ABF essentially becomes HF when mixed with water or liquid cleaning solutions.

Similar to HF, ABF was originally developed for industrial uses, like etching glass, removing oxides from metals and eliminating mineral stains from stone, glass and porcelain.

"Hydrogen fluoride and ammonium bifluoride. are created for industrial use only," says Dr. Andras Nagy, chief chemist for S&S Car Care, a North Canton, OH-based manufacturer of car-care products. "In Europe, people are stunned that carwashes are using these types of chemicals."

...

Chemists say it's the flouride ions in HF and ABF that make many wheel cleaners and pre-soaks so potentially dangerous. Whether fluoride ions enter body tissues as the result of inhalation or skin contact, they cause deep, progressive burning that may quickly lead to multi-organ failure and death. Long-term exposure to even minimal amounts of ABF can lead to brittle bones, weight loss, anemia, and calcified ligaments.

"ABF is extremely hazardous and can be harmful to several target organs in the human body, including the lungs, skin, eyes and kidneys," warns Roger McFadden, technical director and senior chemist with Coastwide Laboritories, Portland, OR.

McFadden says one of the most frightening aspects of fluoride poisoning is that its effects are not immediately apparent. Unlike hydrochloric acid or sulfuric acid, damage caused by HF and ABF takes place slowly. By the time a victim feels the effects, it's too late to reverse the damage.



Pretty scary stuff huh? As stated in the quotes above ABF becomes Hydrogen Fluoride (HF) when mixed with water, which it will always be in any useable concentration. Here's a quote from Wikipedia on HF's healt effects:

Hydrogen fluoride is toxic and can be fatal if even small amounts are ingested or absorbed through the skin. HF burns require immediate treatment beginning with washing with water but specialized care is indicated. HF acid burns are not similar to those produced by hydrogen chloride (HCl), or other common acids. Onset time of symptoms of HF burns are proportional to concentration. Above 50% instantaneous effects are apparent. Between 20% and 50% clinical symptoms may not appear for one to eight hours. Concentrations below 20% may not result in symptoms for 24 hours.

Entry routes include inhalation, ingestion, skin and eyes. Aside from burns to the eyes, skin, lungs, or digestive tract, the lowering of serum calcium (hypocalcemia) is one of the most serious consequences of HF exposure. As the free fluorine ion penetrates the skin it binds serum calcium forming covalent, nearly insoluble calcium fluoride (CaF2). This has effects on nerve conduction and can lead to extreme throbbing pain, metabolic changes, and even death.



I think the most disturbing thing is the potential long term health effects of using products containg ABF. I really don't see why we need chemicals like this in the detailing business, and hope that it is only a matter of time before before they are replaced completely. But this will only happen if people stop buying products containing ABF. I hope this post will help to help raise the attention towards which chemicals actually are in the products we are all using.

Now, generally when I read something like this it leads to a lot more research and reading from me and since I've done this in the past (when I first read this thread), I know that what he's saying is correct.
 
How long has Wheel Brightner been on the market?

How much Wheel Brighter has Meguiar's sold?

How many persons have been injured by Wheel Brightner?

How many persons has Wheel Brighter killed?

Has anybody sued Meguiar's or 3M over injuries sustained through the use of Wheel Brighter according to the directions on the container?

Given the fact that there are plenty of morons who can't apply wax correctly, have problems reading instructions, and the entire country is populated by lawyers willing to take contingency cases at the drop of a hat, WHY IS THIS STUFF STILL ON THE MARKET IF IT'S SO DANGEROUS?

You'd think Sean Penn would be appearing in TV ads to raise money for poor illegal alien car wash employees injured or killed by Meguiar's Wheel Brighter.

Don't drink it, don't bathe in it, and don't inhale it. Just like gasoline, diesel fuel, oven cleaner, Drano, etc., etc.

Anything can kill you. Recently, a woman died while particpating in a radio station contest - by injesting too much water.
 
I use this product on a regular basis and have never had an issue using it. I mix it according to directions, 4:1, and it works very well. When used according to directions it will clean even those more troublesome areas.


  • Is Meguiar's Wheel Brightener strong? Yes it is.
  • Will Meguiar's Wheel Brightener strip the clear-coat off wheels? No it won't
  • Should Meguiar's Wheel Brightener be used on non-coated wheels? No
  • Will Meguiar's Wheel Brightener melt plastic? No it won't
  • Will Meguiar's Wheel Brightener burn your eyes if sprayed directly into them? Yes it will
  • Will Meguiar's Wheel Brightener irritate your nasal passages? Yes it will
  • Will Meguiar's Wheel Brightener remove the skin from your fingers and hands? No it won't
  • Should you bathe in Meguiar's Wheel Brightener? No you shouldn't
  • Can Meguiar's Wheel Brightener cause serious injury due to long skin exposure and inhalation? Yes it can
Meguiar's Wheel Brightener has been on the market for a long time and available to the consumer without special licensing. There are hundred's of products on the open market that are much more hazardous and dangerous than Meguiar's Wheel Brightener.

In this instance, we are where we've chosen to be on this country's time-line because of Trial Lawyers Association. We've literally removed common sense from everyday life because you and I are not responsible for and cannot be accountable for our own stupidity.

The only precautionary note I don't see on the label is: When using this product please use common sense.


  • When using Meguiar's Wheel Brightener do I wear gloves? No I don't
  • When using Meguiar's Wheel Brightener do I wear a respirator? No I don't
  • When using Meguiar's Wheel Brightener do I wear protective clothing? No I don't
  • When using Meguiar's Wheel Brightener do I wear eye protection? Yes I do
 
I've seen those rims many times. For whatever reason they always have flaws in the finish. Don't know why this is.

They always look like they've been sprayed silver over black primer with just one lazy coat of paint. It's almost like the black is peaking through in all kinds of places. This may be exactly what it is...but who knows. I've never gotten it off, and I've tried acid. It does nothing. I've also tried clay...still nothing.

I've just learned to accept that the factory dropped the ball on these rims.


I completely understand this and I think this is what causes the black shading in the corners, but the black streaks and runs were not there when I bought the wheels.

I wouldn't think that the streaks would happen over time behind the paint correct?
 
I'm shocked I haven't seen anyone post this, use meg's ultimate compound it's one of the best you can use by hand, if that doesn't take it off nothing will, like mentioned before might be poorly painted, but usually a compound works wonders on painted rims

That is an idea. I have some Meguiars scratch x. Isn't that one level stronger than the ultimate compound? If so, I will try the scratch X on the area in the 1st picture tonight and report back.

Thanks to everyone to all of the excellent suggestions!
 
Don't drink it, don't bathe in it, and don't inhale it. Just like gasoline, diesel fuel, oven cleaner, Drano, etc., etc. Anything can kill you. Recently, a woman died while particpating in a radio station contest - by injesting too much water.

You know, there's no need to go mental. Of course WB is used all over all the time, stored, transported, etc. The reason some of us go out of our way with warnings about casual posters using this stuff is--YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO ON THE INTERNET. It may be that you or I or ten thousand other people can use this product with no problem, but maybe the OP is not someone who is versed in chemicals and will treat the WB like a bottle of Windex. Do you want to be the one responsible for someone being seriously injured? It would be the same if you told someone to use Drano...you want to make sure they have some minimal competence level--WHICH IS TOUGH TO TELL OVER THE INTERNET.


You'd think Sean Penn would be appearing in TV ads to raise money for poor illegal alien car wash employees injured or killed by Meguiar's Wheel Brighter.

Actually, Automotive International (a large dealer/OEM supplier) DID have an article suggesting that minimum wage car wash employees were being permanently injured by HF wheel cleaners and argued against the use of them. Maybe if they could get Sean Penn they would get more attention.
 
That is an idea. I have some Meguiars scratch x. Isn't that one level stronger than the ultimate compound? If so, I will try the scratch X on the area in the 1st picture tonight and report back.

Thanks to everyone to all of the excellent suggestions!

Try it out, just don't try and be superman and grind it into the surface, polish like you would any other painted surface and if it doesnt come off no tire/wheel cleaners taking if off
 
Try it out, just don't try and be superman and grind it into the surface, polish like you would any other painted surface and if it doesn't come off no tire/wheel cleaners taking if off

Ok, I was wrong. Scratch X 2.0 (I do have 2.0 no just scratch X) is not as aggressive as Ultimate Compound based on this chart:

Aggressiveness Order for New Consumer Products - This will surprise you! - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

I will still try the scratch X 1st before I buy anything else, but let me get this straight.

If using Scratch X or Ultimate Compound by hand will not take the black stuff off, the acids in Wheel Brightener with agitation will not for sure? I guess my mind thinks that the acids would be stronger than the compounds, but I am not a professional detailer and you guys are.
 
If using Scratch X or Ultimate Compound by hand will not take the black stuff off, the acids in Wheel Brightener with agitation will not for sure? I guess my mind thinks that the acids would be stronger than the compounds, but I am not a professional detailer and you guys are.

That really depends on how smooth the surface is. WB will dissolve brake metals out of pits that you may have a tough time getting into with a polish. If the surface is pretty smooth and polishing doesn't remove it, it probably is not going to come out with WB, either...IMO. The reason people would use WB over hand polishing is it's a lot quicker to spray and rinse a set of wheels vs. hand polishing all the spokes...and of course the "pits" issue.
 
That really depends on how smooth the surface is. WB will dissolve brake metals out of pits that you may have a tough time getting into with a polish. If the surface is pretty smooth and polishing doesn't remove it, it probably is not going to come out with WB, either...IMO. The reason people would use WB over hand polishing is it's a lot quicker to spray and rinse a set of wheels vs. hand polishing all the spokes...and of course the "pits" issue.

This makes sense. The surface is smooth. I can't feel the brake dust or whatever the black stuff is at all. I am beginning to feel like I may just be stuck with the way they are.

Thanks
 
Maybe try some Iron X, not for sale here, but it looks like might possibly work in this situation. Not much info out there on it, but I've seen some people on here swear by it.
 
This makes sense. The surface is smooth. I can't feel the brake dust or whatever the black stuff is at all. I am beginning to feel like I may just be stuck with the way they are.

Thanks

If there was pitting chemicals would be the quicker way for sure to get it out, but judging from the picks the surface looked very smooth which is y I recommend the polish :)
 
Maybe try some Iron X, not for sale here, but it looks like might possibly work in this situation. Not much info out there on it, but I've seen some people on here swear by it.

I thought the IronX was pretty much like the Sonax Full-Effect.
 
I thought the IronX was pretty much like the Sonax Full-Effect.

I think it is, at least in that it changes colors if it finds something its working on. From what I understand though is that IronX can also be used as a paint cleaner. Supposedly "opens up the pores" and pulls out any iron particles.
 
I think it is, at least in that it changes colors if it finds something its working on. From what I understand though is that IronX can also be used as a paint cleaner. Supposedly "opens up the pores" and pulls out any iron particles.

Hmm...maybe I can use it on my face to take out what's left from when I was grinding that cast iron sink...."opens up the pores" sounds like marketing BS to me...and I would bet that you could use the Sonax on your paint...I'm just not going to be the one to try it on my car...
 
You know, there's no need to go mental. Of course WB is used all over all the time, stored, transported, etc. The reason some of us go out of our way with warnings about casual posters using this stuff is--YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO ON THE INTERNET. It may be that you or I or ten thousand other people can use this product with no problem, but maybe the OP is not someone who is versed in chemicals and will treat the WB like a bottle of Windex. Do you want to be the one responsible for someone being seriously injured? It would be the same if you told someone to use Drano...you want to make sure they have some minimal competence level--WHICH IS TOUGH TO TELL OVER THE INTERNET


:iagree: 100%

Generally, in addition to the people who are members that are viewing this thread, there will be many many lurkers who will view it too. There will probablly be more "guest" views than member views over time as this article will still appear in google searches about wheel brightner.

Don't stop using it, it's a great product, but DO take serious safety precautions. As we all know, Meguiar's sells their detailer line products to detailers and expects them to already know what safety precautions to take, but as we also know, non detailers, and even newbies at detailing can get their hands on meguiars detailer line products too.
 
:iagree: 100%

Generally, in addition to the people who are members that are viewing this thread, there will be many many lurkers who will view it too. There will probablly be more "guest" views than member views over time as this article will still appear in google searches about wheel brightner.

Don't stop using it, it's a great product, but DO take serious safety precautions. As we all know, Meguiar's sells their detailer line products to detailers and expects them to already know what safety precautions to take, but as we also know, non detailers, and even newbies at detailing can get their hands on meguiars detailer line products too.


Just stop.

You can't point to one injury or death related to Wheel Brightner. You can't point to one lawsuit related to injury or death related to Wheel Brightner.

You allegation that the product is for professional use and the manufacturer expects users to know its dangers is ignorant, at best. It would not be a defense in court, and the product is sold to anyone.
 
Actually, Automotive International (a large dealer/OEM supplier) DID have an article suggesting that minimum wage car wash employees were being permanently injured by HF wheel cleaners and argued against the use of them. Maybe if they could get Sean Penn they would get more attention.

Maybe you should quote a medical journal.

Maybe Automotive International should publish an article reminding its members hiring illegal aliens is illegal.
 
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