is klasse AIO required before sealant glaze?

[davewear]

My new truck should be here in a week or so. I plan to use Klasse Sealant Glaze as it will live out doors and I want the durability.

I'm planing to wash, clay, wash and then apply the sealant but I have read the all in one should be applied prior to the sealant. Is this needed on a flawless new vehicle that has been clayed? if so, why?

Thanks!

have a nice dave

 

[embolism]

you can use KSG by itself on a clean surface. You might get more durability if you use the KAIO first as the products are made to work with one another.

Any reason you are hesitant to use the KAIO? Even though it sounds like it has some corrective ability which you may not need, it doesn't really correct anything, it's more of a great chemical cleaner.

I use it with a white polishing pad on speed 5. You'll be amazed at the dirt it pulls out of the paint even after washing, claying, and iron x.

One tip for the ksg application. Put some in a spritz bottle, then spray an applicator pad and scrunch it. You want to put it on so thin that you see the product evaporate (like windex as you wipe a window) and there is nothing left. If you can still see the product after you've gone over an area, then you've put on too much and will have a hard time removing it later.

This is only important for the first coat. Once it is sealed, you can use as much as you want and it'll come off no issues. Top it after 12 hours with some collinite 845 and you'll be good for at least 6 months.

see my writeup here: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/42576-winter-prep.html

 

[FUNX650]

I have some thoughts about Klasse's AIO/HGSG, but I prefer to defer to AGO Forum member:

Klasse Act...Hope he 'chimes in'; or, perhaps a PM directed to him?
Either way, I believe he will share his knowledge and expertise in this matter!



Bob

 

[Hoytman]

I'd like to no more about Klasse products, the answer to the op's question, and application methods.

 

[embolism]

you guys are making me feel like chopped liver here...

mmm liver and onions... making myself hungry...

 

[FUNX650]

you guys are making me feel like chopped liver here...

Sorry, embolism...That was not my intention.

BTW:
Diet Warning:
According to my Doctor: Liver & Onions=Embolisms

Be careful.




Bob

 

[andrew b]

you can use KSG by itself on a clean surface. You might get more durability if you use the KAIO first as the products are made to work with one another.

Any reason you are hesitant to use the KAIO? Even though it sounds like it has some corrective ability which you may not need, it doesn't really correct anything, it's more of a great chemical cleaner.

Exactly. I used the klasse twins for years until some of the newer water-based polymer sealants came on the scene. KAIO x2 and KSGx3 was a mantra many of us klasse fanatics followed. I also use KAIO as a spot cleaner, since it's nice to know it leaves behind a sealant until I can retreat the vehicle.

I always found using AIO helped, and doing it twice assured that you didn't miss any places (note I applied these over multiple sessions).

The KSG really pops after the 3rd layer for some reason. I had up to 5 layers at some points, but that 3rd always seemed to make some critical difference. But even 1 layer is impressive!

I use it with a white polishing pad on speed 5. You'll be amazed at the dirt it pulls out of the paint even after washing, claying, and iron x.

Again, yes. I have done both KAIO and KSG by hand and machine. The white pad really makes the KAIO work. I still prefer KSG by hand, sinc eit's so critical to get it put on super thin (see next quote)

One tip for the ksg application. Put some in a spritz bottle, then spray an applicator pad and scrunch it. You want to put it on so thin that you see the product evaporate (like windex as you wipe a window) and there is nothing left. If you can still see the product after you've gone over an area, then you've put on too much and will have a hard time removing it later.

I never used a spritz bottle, but put the KSG into one of those little plastic cups they give you at fast food places for ketchup. Those are typically 1 ounce - which should be enough to do a normal-sized car (for KSG. For KAIO, you'll need 2 Oz). I use a sponge applicator, and drizzle/wipe/spread a VERY thin line acros the pad. Then fold the pad in half, to spread the product. As noted, you want to have it goign on so thin that it looks like it's evaporating. A square from a very soft white cotton t-shirt also works well.

This is only important for the first coat. Once it is sealed, you can use as much as you want and it'll come off no issues. Top it after 12 hours with some collinite 845 and you'll be good for at least 6 months.

see my writeup here: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/42576-winter-prep.html

As I said, at one point I had 5-6 layers of KSG on my Lexus, over top of 2 applications of KAIO (KAIO won't layer, since the second treatment will remove the sealant laid down by the first one). Top that hard candy shine with your 'nuba of choice (I use Pinnacle Souveran) to get that nice warm glow....

A side note: dilute one part KSG in 9 parts distilled water (a 10% solution) and use it in a spray bottle on clean wheels. Even better if you give the wheels a treatment of KAIO. I've been doing this (mainly to use up 1/2 bottle of KSG that's sitting on my shelf, since I switch to other sealants) every time I go to dry off the wheels after a wash. The brake dust just rinses right off....

 

[embolism]

Sorry, embolism...That was not my intention.

BTW:
Diet Warning:
According to my Doctor: Liver & Onions=Embolisms

Be careful.




Bob

it's all good

liver and onions with a side of bacon jam... yum

 

[davewear]

thanks guys, after a little more research..... I found this article by Mike Phillips http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...erence-between-cleaner-wax-finishing-wax.html and in it he said.... "A cleaner/wax doesn't need to be used, and in most cases shouldn't be used, on a car in which the paint is in excellent condition, for example a brand new car or an older car in which the paint has been properly cleaned and polished. For finishes on both of these types of cars the paint would be better served using a finishing wax or finishing sealant."

I was planning to use this technique to apply the KSG Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze (KSG) Guide and Review – Detailed Image

thoughts?

Cheers!

 

[FUNX650]

it's all good

liver and onions with a side of bacon jam... yum

Thanks for the: "it's all good".

*How about another embolismic delicacy for your consumption:





Bob

NOTE @OP:
Sorry for the mild/minor (?) hijack...

 

[andrew b]

thanks guys, after a little more research..... I found this article by Mike Phillips http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...erence-between-cleaner-wax-finishing-wax.html and in it he said.... "A cleaner/wax doesn't need to be used, and in most cases shouldn't be used, on a car in which the paint is in excellent condition, for example a brand new car or an older car in which the paint has been properly cleaned and polished. For finishes on both of these types of cars the paint would be better served using a finishing wax or finishing sealant."

I was planning to use this technique to apply the KSG Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze (KSG) Guide and Review – Detailed Image

thoughts?

Cheers!

There is a difference between KAIO and a cleaner wax. Cleaner waxes typically have a slight abrasive/polish capability in them - thus the "polish and clean". The cleaning capability in KAIO is entirely chemical - it has no abrasives whatsoever.

I believe the reason Mike makes the statement about not using a cleaner wax on paint that's in excellent condition is that you don't need the abrasize/polish affect that a cleaner wax typically has.

KAIO is made to be used prior to KSG, and in my experience the KSG bonds better (is easier to remove and lasts longer) to a KAIO prepped surface. The KAIO also makes sure that any previous LSP has been removed (important for LSP bonding). My full process that included Klasse used to be:
- wash, clay, dry
- KAIO (two times - makes sure all areas are equally cleaned and ready)
- KSG (three times - with a minimum of a 24 hour cure time between layers)
- Wax topper (optional)

 

[embolism]

I've read that application method from DI before but I still feel it's being put on too thick there.

I didn't even have to wipe anything off when I did my first coat, except some areas around door handles where I didn't put it on thin enough. You will be able to feel just with the applicator, where the ksg has gone on and where it hasn't.

 

[davewear]

Really appreciate the input. I'm now waffling on applying KAIO. If there is a chemical reaction between it and the KSG that improves bonding then obviously that's the way to go.....

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

There is a difference between KAIO and a cleaner wax. Cleaner waxes typically have a slight abrasive/polish capability in them - thus the "polish and clean". The cleaning capability in KAIO is entirely chemical - it has no abrasives whatsoever.

I lump them all together and explain why in this thread,


I'm Going Back To Basics with an AIO


If a product,

• Cleans - however it does it...

• Polishes - Makes the paint more clear and shiny.

• Waxes or Seals - Whatever the magic ingredients are that it somehow leaves behind at the same time it's removing stuff.

Then it's a cleaner/wax or all-in-one type product. To the degree a product cleans is what is the factor that separates them, you have aggressive cleaner/waxes and you have light cleaner/waxes and cleaner/waxes in-between.

Call it Nu-Finish, call it Klasse AIO or call it Meguiar's Cleaner/Wax that's been around since 1973, they are all the same "category" of product.

I believe the reason Mike makes the statement about not using a cleaner wax on paint that's in excellent condition is that you don't need the abrasive/polish affect that a cleaner wax typically has.

You shouldn't need any cleaning effect, whether it's chemical cleaners, abrasives or a combination of chemical cleaners/abrasives. That would be called working backwards.

Somewhere I have something typed up on working forwards in the process and working backwards in the process.

KAIO is made to be used prior to KSG, and in my experience the KSG bonds better (is easier to remove and lasts longer) to a KAIO prepped surface.

There is a truth to the idea of synergistic chemical compatibility, that is the chemist that makes the first product used in any process knows best how to make any follow-up products since they formulated the first products.

The benefit to using Klasse AIO before the KSG is that since it is a cleaner/wax, if you don't get to the KSG at least the AIO is leaving behind a protective coating.

Contrast that to if you used a dedicated paint cleaner, that is its sole function is to clean the paint NOT leave behind any protection, if you didn't finish the entire car with the KSG then the paint would be left un-protected.

Many people, let me type that again... MANY PEOPLE use the Klasse AIO as a paint cleaner to prep the paint for the KSG, the fact that the AIO leaves behind some protection is just an extra benefit.


The bigger picture the answer to the age-old question,

How long will brand X wax last


There are multiple parts to the answer to that question but the first part and the primary portion of the answer goes like this,

How long a wax will last depends upon how well the surface was prepared to accept the wax


And I have an article that covers the rest of the answers...

How long will brand x car wax or paint sealant last?

 

[embolism]

Really appreciate the input. I'm now waffling on applying KAIO. If there is a chemical reaction between it and the KSG that improves bonding then obviously that's the way to go.....

that's kind of what I was getting at when I asked why you didn't want to use it. Most people see AIO and think I don't need any correction so I don't need it.

Believe me, I was actually hoping for some correction when I used it before my winter prep detail but nope, didn't do a thing to some micro marring I had on one of my C pillars.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

My new truck should be here in a week or so. I plan to use Klasse Sealant Glaze as it will live out doors and I want the durability.

I'm planing to wash, clay, wash and then apply the sealant but I have read the all in one should be applied prior to the sealant. Is this needed on a flawless new vehicle that has been clayed? if so, why?

Thanks!

have a nice dave

Good question...

Even a brand new car can benefit from a "light" cleaning just to key word, ensure the surface is clean and ready for application of wax, sealant or coating.

Klasse AIO is really easy to use and works really well as a light paint cleaner that as an extra benefit also leaves behind a coat of protection.

Another option before using Klasse SG would be to use a light paint cleaner or even a fine or ultra fine polish to lightly clean the surface to ensure you're starting with a fresh base.

Even some car washes can leave some type of coating on the surface of the paint, by hand or machine cleaning first, you ensure EVERYTHING is off the surface.


Here's some related articles... the first one is VERY important if you have never used Klasse SG before,


A tip for working with waxes, paint sealants or coatings that are new to you

The benefits of a light paint cleaner, cleansing lotion or pre-wax cleaner


These apply too...

How to use a hand applied abrasive polish or paint cleaner by hand

Priming your pad when working by hand

 

[davewear]

Awesome! Thanks all! One more... Conflicting info online, do I need to wait to apply KSG after KAIO?

 

[andrew b]

Awesome! Thanks all! One more... Conflicting info online, do I need to wait to apply KSG after KAIO?

I never waited after the KAIO to go to the KSG. I would, and still do, wait 24 hours between applications of sealants or waxes that can be "layered" (do not remove product/LSP under them during application) so they have a decent chance to cure.

Does it make a difference? Honestly, don't know. But I figure letting the LSP cure can't hurt.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Awesome! Thanks all! One more... Conflicting info online, do I need to wait to apply KSG after KAIO?

To back up what Andrew posted the answer is "no".

Apply, work in, allow to dry and wipe off. Since you're basically using the AIO as a pre-wax cleaner or paint cleaner, you can even apply, work in and the wipe-off immediately.


Be sure to apply the KSG to only a small area and then wipe it off before applying to the entire car.

You'll see why real fast if you're applying to thick of a coat.


:xyxthumbs:

 

[Detail_Dude]

Be sure to apply the KSG to only a small area and then wipe it off before applying to the entire car.

You'll see why real fast if you're applying to thick of a coat.


:xyxthumbs:

thanks for the tip. I am also in the 'potentially going to try the Klasse Twins' camp and appreciate your posts & this entire thread.