Need help: Black Trashed Trailblazer project

[Hoytman]

I've got everything all taped off and covered up and I'm now working on a test spot on the roof of this black http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/41661-trashed-trailblazer.html. Factory paint.

The roof looks twice as bad as the doors.

The roof is stained up and so oxidized that it's taking forever. One spot is etched from a green pre-soak product that must have dried on at the handi-wash.

I've got some serious before pictures, but no time to upload them now. It's crunch time.

Here's what I've done so far:
I tried M105 and an orange lc flat pad. Didn't phase it. I then started with a a W4000 wool pad on my haarbor freight rotary on speed 1 and m105 (buff and shine 3" wool in tight areas). That seemed to remove a lot of the heavy oxidation in the test spot, but left some of the deeper water marks and stains. So, I went over the area again with the wool pad. Some better, but I thought I'd switch back to the lc orange flat pad.

With the orange pad and m105 on my G110v2 set on speed 6 it still took two tries of 5 section passes with heavy pressure. This time I can see a difference. It's going to take another few section passes before I think it'll be ready for M205.

At this point my 2X2 test spot has taken me in excess of 45 minutes. So, naturally I'm needing some advice on how to speed things up. One way is to shrink me working area, but the spot on the roof I chose had a luggage rack and an onstar antenea in my way.

It seems that the M105 is really drying out fast, which is expected because of the oxidation.

I also have mf pads with D300/D301 I could try, but I would think the combo I am using is pretty stout.

I also have the 6.5 inch Meguiar's maroon cutting/polishing/finishing pads. I also have Buff n Shine 5.5" yellow, and white pads, but again those aren't strong enough for the paint on the roof of this thing.

This roof looks still has a brown tint to it even after a wash and clay. The stains are horrible except in the test spot area which is a vast improvement.

It just seems like I need more lubrication than what a line of M105 is producing.

I'm going to take a break for a bit while waiting on a few replies. My back is killing me from being on this ladder so long.

The plan is to finish the roof completely and then move forward. Perhaps it's going to take two sets of 5-6 passes with wool and M105 before moving on.

Any and all comments are welcomed.

 

[Hoytman]

For some contrast to the above issues on the roof...

I just tried a test spot on the driver side rear fender with M105, lc orange flat pad, and G110v2 on speed 6 with 5 section passes.

This test area cleaned up quick and easy compared to the roof area. The sides are going to be much easier to complete, for sure.

I'd post a picture, but I'm not at home to upload them.

I honestly think I'm going to need to use more product on the roof, but I'll wait for comments.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

"Gizmo" worked on first washing the years of crud off of the bus with a very strong mixture that I made up for him in the wash bucket. I mixed up 1 gallon of Purple Power, 1 cup of Meguiars Deep Crystal car wash soap and filled the rest of the 5 gallon bucket with water. You'd think that this would have cut through anything that was on the bus, but there was still a lot of crud left after the initial scrubbing. I'm talking years of imbedded crud in the soft and somewhat thin paint that these buses are coated with. It would take a special product to quickly remove all of that imbedded crud.

I'm a believer in using APC in wash bucket, or trigger sprayed onto panel during wash process concerning heavy oxidation.

Also, Mike has a thread on 5000 grit [polishing (humor)] sanding discs.

 

[Hoytman]

Last week I used a strong mix of 901 and APC+ and it didn't seem to help any. If it did it wasn't noticable by me. However, my wife did see a difference in the sides of the SUV after claying, so apparently the clay removed a little bit of the oxidation on the sides, but in no way touched what is on the roof of this thing.

I did consider using 3000 and then 5000 grit sanding discs, but I don't have any at this time. Those products are next on my Christmas list.

I made another test spot. This time I shrunk the spot down considerably to about a 18x18 area. I also used more product, a good heavy 11inch line of product. This seemed to allow me to reach about 4 section passes and removed 95% of the gunk and much of the swirls.

The M105 takes a good amount of effort to wipe off and it doesn't wipe off good at all in areas where I didn't remove all of the oxidation.

I also spritzed an area that had dried with water, then worked it until it was almost gone and that seemed to help. Wasn't near as hard to wipe off either.

This is actually my first time using M105. I already tried a test spot on the side of the SUV and it's going to require a totally different technique than the roof which is proving quite the challenge to dial in the correct technique.

I like the results so far after getting at least one decent test spot. In this spot I used the W4000 wool pad from Meguiar's and M105, then moved to an orange Lake Country Flat pad w/M105 and the results in this spot were just short of spectacular. I have to switch to my white LC polishing pad and M205 and that should knock my test spot out of the park. If it does, I'm set to finish knocking out the roof and then proceed to finish my test spot on the rear fender and then start on knocking out the rest of the SUV.

There's so much gunk and nastiness on the roof that while using the wool pad with M105 the rotary is real grabby until the gunk is removed and then it's smooth sailing.

This HF rotary is good for an emergency back-up and that's about it. I was using it on speed one and out of nowhere the rpm's would just rise to about speed 3 automatically for some reason. I checked to see if I was bumping the dial and indeed I was not. So, there's something wrong with it or it's just not of good quality. It only seems to do this though when I'm using speed one and I can tell you that when I first put the pad to an uncut area on the roof there's a ton of drag on this rotary because of the gunk on the roof. It might be doing this because it's heating up so much on low speed. It's almost as if it lacks enough torque on low speed and it could be a combination of the roof condition as well.

My plan is to use the rotary as much as possible just for the experience on paint and I may even try to finish with it as well. It would take forever to do the roof on this Trashed Trailblazer without the rotary.

Still looking to dial in my technique a little better for the condition of this roof.

Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

Last week I used a strong mix of 901 and APC+ and it didn't seem to help any.

I did consider using 3000 and then 5000 grit sanding discs, but I don't have any at this time.

I made another test spot. This time I shrunk the spot down considerably to about a 18x18 area. I also used more product, a good heavy 11inch line of product. This seemed to allow me to reach about 4 section passes and removed 95% of the gunk and much of the swirls.
Smart move
The M105 takes a good amount of effort to wipe off and it doesn't wipe off good at all in areas where I didn't remove all of the oxidation.
This is to be expected. The 105 hangs onto what left behind from the oxidation/soot/resins that haven't been cut through
I also spritzed an area that had dried with water, then worked it until it was almost gone and that seemed to help. Wasn't near as hard to wipe off either.

This is actually my first time using M105. I already tried a test spot on the side of the SUV and it's going to require a totally different technique than the roof which is proving quite the challenge to dial in the correct technique.
Again to be expected. The horizontal panels of neglected vehicles are usually more weathered, so to speak.

I like the results so far after getting at least one decent test spot. In this spot I used the W4000 wool pad from Meguiar's and M105, then moved to an orange Lake Country Flat pad w/M105 and the results in this spot were just short of spectacular. I have to switch to my white LC polishing pad and M205 and that should knock my test spot out of the park. If it does, I'm set to finish knocking out the roof and then proceed to finish my test spot on the rear fender and then start on knocking out the rest of the SUV.

There's so much gunk and nastiness on the roof that while using the wool pad with M105 the rotary is real grabby until the gunk is removed and then it's smooth sailing.

This HF rotary is good for an emergency back-up and that's about it. I was using it on speed one and out of nowhere the rpm's would just rise to about speed 3 automatically for some reason. I checked to see if I was bumping the dial and indeed I was not. So, there's something wrong with it or it's just not of good quality. It only seems to do this though when I'm using speed one and I can tell you that when I first put the pad to an uncut area on the roof there's a ton of drag on this rotary because of the gunk on the roof. It might be doing this because it's heating up so much on low speed. It's almost as if it lacks enough torque on low speed and it could be a combination of the roof condition as well.

My plan is to use the rotary as much as possible just for the experience on paint and I may even try to finish with it as well. It would take forever to do the roof on this Trashed Trailblazer without the rotary.

Still looking to dial in my technique a little better for the condition of this roof.

Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

I'll send you one of mine to use if you'd like.
I trust you...lol.
Gotta go to the PO tomorrow for forum member jjj anyway- I'll check the charges.

I've been on the forum ALL day. Gonna Check a few more threads and I'm 10-7.

 

[Jomax]

Once had the HF rotary given to me from a friend. Gave it a shot on my hood, was on speed 1, all of a sudden went to speed 4 and splattered all the product all over the truck. I unplugged it, and threw it straight in the garbage can.


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online

 

[Hoytman]

Once had the HF rotary given to me from a friend. Gave it a shot on my hood, was on speed 1, all of a sudden went to speed 4 and splattered all the product all over the truck. I unplugged it, and threw it straight in the garbage can.


Sent from my iPhone using AG Online

Ha ha...happened to me right out of the gate yesterday. Spent 20 minutes wiping up in areas I hadn't taped yet...but those areas are covered now. LOL! I was Mike Phillips there for a few short seconds...ain't no thang... and then wham...M105 exploded...and it's back to being just me. LOL!

Seriously though, that Chicago rotary just went nutz for a brief moment and that's all it took to make that mess. I have to admit that I've never had that happen with that tool at the higher settings. I've used that rotary quite a bit doing gel-coat work and it's served me well...considering it's a cheap-o. It doesn't like too much pressure though.

 

[Hoytman]

I'll send you one of mine to use if you'd like.
I trust you...lol.
Gotta go to the PO tomorrow for forum member jjj anyway- I'll check the charges.

I've been on the forum ALL day. Gonna Check a few more threads and I'm 10-7.

I certainly appreciate the offer Vegas, but I'd feel terrible if something happened to your machine while I had it. Right now I'm not in a good position to replace something like that should something happen. Trust me...the way my luck has been over the last few years... Do you remember what they used to sing on Hee Haw? "Gloom dispare, agony on me...whoa...yada yada...excessive mysery...if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all...gloom dispare agony on me...whoa"... ha ha ha. LOL!!! Sorry about that...sort of had a flashback from when I was growing up. Gosh I miss that show...those days. Anywho... I am humbled that you would make such an offer. You're a good man.

 

[tuscarora dave]

How many speed settings does the rotary have? Crank that baby up man!!! Sounds like everything else is normal except that maybe your work area on the roof is still a little big. Try 12"X12" work area and work it until the 105 goes dry but give it a shot on speed 3 or 4. When you have severe defects 105 and smaller work sections rule.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

You got a good ring man in your corner in the Keystone hand, and a forum full of knowledged members rops:
Post some pics when you get the chance...this is going to be interesting. I've never witnessed a literal Phoenix rising from the ashes.

My day won't start til 8. PO run and an 11:30 mobile.

Well, you know where the pm button is if you decide otherwise. I value learning more than I value a well used Craigslist tool...and with your quest for knowledge, I'm sure to be learning much from you in the future.

10-08 reading the mail.

 

[Hoytman]

How many speed settings does the rotary have? Crank that baby up man!!! Sounds like everything else is normal except that maybe your work area on the roof is still a little big. Try 12"X12" work area and work it until the 105 goes dry but give it a shot on speed 3 or 4. When you have severe defects 105 and smaller work sections rule.

It has several speeds, but I've been keeping it slow because of it being hard to reach the rotary seems to want to chatter on me. Hold on and I'll check the speed settings according to the paper work. Be right back...

Can't seem to locate the paperwork and a quick internet search, real quick, didn't yield any information either. I have the orange HF Chicago electric rotary. It has a minimum setting which I'm guessing is less than 1000 rpms, speed 1 I'm guessing is between 1000-1200. Speeds 3 and 4 would be crankin', but I'll try it. Guess that means I be using faster arm speed as well, which has been moderate at most up to this point.

I'm going to change out this worn out wool pad for a fresh one and then I'll give your suggestions a try. Smaller area, faster speed, work it dry. I know you can't see pictures of this roof yet until I post some, but how much product would you suggest?

I'm kickin' myself for not trying those rotaries (which was one of my reasons for going in the first place) while at the Evansville get together. I really wanted Mr. Phillips to critique my technique. He was so warn out nearing the end that I just chose not to ask about it. I did gain some valuable information from just observing him with the rotary and wool pad while using M105.

I'm going to change to a fresh pad first. After that I think today is going to be a much better day...especially after getting some rest.

 

[Hoytman]

Aww man!!

Down to my G110V2 and a maroon 6.5 inch Meguiar's cutting pad with M105 to remove the rest of this gunk. The Harbor Freight rotary just took a dive on me. I thought I had broken my Dynabrade attachment on the rotary at first, but it turns out to be the rotary itself. Shucks! That thing is knockin' somethin' fierce...ha ha. I may just use it until it completely gives up the ghost.

This could take a lot longer now...

...if I could just get this roof nocked out it's smooth sailing from there on. Well, almost. Back to work...

 

[Hoytman]

Either...

1. I'm slow
2. I need more clean wool pads ...OR
3. This roof is dirrrrrrty!

It could be a combination of all three. LOL!!!

I'm about 2/3's done with the first stage of compounding and the difference I've made is tremendous. Dave's suggestion of more speed and more product has worked so far, however, it's still taking two sets of 5 section passes...and then some in some areas.

One thing is for certain though, the paint on the roof won't turn out super nice like most of the work I see from fellow Autogeek's because of all the neglect this thing has seen but it will be a vast improvement from what it was. The roof is etched terribly, but to my surprise some of it is coming out but there are some spots that it's just simply too late.

I think the bearing is going out of the rotary, but it's still spinin', although with a knock and a thump. It's either the bearing or the do-hicky that's used to lock it from spinning.

I tried Meguair's maroon 6.5 inch pad on the rotary with the Dynabrade attachment, and no dice. With this first stage on the roof it's wool or nothing. I chose not to use that same pad on just the rotary because of heat issues. The wool is runnin' nice and cool.

Should be done with this first stage, and the last third of the roof, in an hour or two. Then it's on to M105 on foam, then M205 and foam.

Sure wish I had a team of Mr. Phillips' Thursday night crew here. We'd knock this roof out in a hurry. That reminds me, I can't miss the live event tonight. Might just learn something else.

Back to work...

 

[Vegas Transplant]

icture:

 

[Hoytman]

icture:

I know...I know, but first I've got to tend to anti-virus issues. Crazy thing just won't open to so I can run it.

You guys aren't going to believe this roof...the befores and afters...even some short video clips.

Just going to have to wait, I've never uploaded anything to youtube so that's another learning curve. Any tips?

I swear I'm tryin' Vegas. LOL!! I'm as anxious to post them as you are about seeing them.

 

[VP Mark]

Can't wait to see this. Sounds like you've undertaken quite a project.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

I will certainly try my best. I may wait until the spring to tackle this since its gotten so cold so early. We'll see. I'm hoping to get some better photos of the damage for the show-n-shine.


We shall see how this Dynabrade works.

I hope that we won't have to wait another year for the pics...[SIZE=+4]ROFL.[/SIZE]

oke:

 

[Hoytman]

I hope that we won't have to wait another year for the pics...[SIZE=+4]ROFL.[/SIZE]

oke:

:laughing: Yeah...yeah. I have legitimate excuses though. LOL!!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

You guys aren't going to believe this roof...the befores and afters...even some short video clips.

Cool, looking forward to the before and after pictures...

Here's your test spot on the roof... looking good!

Just going to have to wait, I've never uploaded anything to youtube so that's another learning curve.

Any tips?

It's pretty straightforward once you wet up a YouTube account. Helps to have a fast Internet connection.

 

[Hoytman]

Cool, looking forward to the before and after pictures...

Here's your test spot on the roof... looking good!

It's pretty straightforward once you wet up a YouTube account. Helps to have a fast Internet connection.

Thanks for the tip Mr. Phillips.

Hey, I didn't realize until now that you'd posted that pic I sent via email. Thanks!

I'm having to finish this project out in the driveway and the rain today prevented me from doing any work. Appears to be the same weather for tomorrow. Bummer.

I've managed to get both sides finished in the first compounding stage with the rotary last everning. All of the oxidation and water spotting is removed on all but the back hatch. If I can just get some decent weather and one more compounding stage with my DA this project will be sealed up for the remainder of the winter and I will resume in the spring. I'll then be doing some touch-up on some RIDS and knocking them off ever so carefully. I'm hoping to at least take this SUV somewhere to get some paint measurements until I can purchase a guage on my own. I'd have liked to have gotten measurements before starting, but I didn't. No excuses.

All of the work you see in that photo was done with my cheap rotary on speed I-II, and a Meguiar's W4000 wool pad with M105. I was very careful, and slow, while working around those valleys and hight spots on those ribs adding additional product for lubrication.

Once I removed all of that oxidation with the wool pad and M105, as you'll see in a future photo's in a future right-up, I then used a 3 inch polsihing pad on the rotary with M105 to finish cleaning out the oxidation at the bottom of the ribs. This was teadeous work.

The next step that you'll also see in future photo's, I then used a 6.5" Meguiar's yellowing polishing pad with M205 across the entire roof to ensure zero holograms.


For those reading the bottom portion of the above photo was only washed and clayed. The middle section of the photo, though you can't tell because the light isn't in that location, was two sets of 5 section passes to get it to the point that you see.

The section with the light bulb is a third and final pass with the wool pad where all oxidation had been completely removed at this point and is ready for a M105 polishing pad step to remove holograms.

Not counting washing and claying, I had 22 hours in just the roof. but for those just reading this the above photo is not the final photographs taken. A total of 5 steps before applying opti-seal. It isn't perfect because there is irreparable damage to much of the paint on this SUV. However, the goal was to create shine. In order to do this the only thing that worked in my initial test spot was a wool pad with M105 and the various steps to a polishing pad with M205.

I enjoyed every minute of this tedious work. I didn't enjoy all the up and down trip on the ladders.

The most exciting part of this project is that I was told my a local body shop that the only way to return the bling on this SUV was to repaint it entirely. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when I take it back to them. LOL!!! Repaint it...Bah hum bug!!!