What is my best option for removing or improving this orange peel?

erichaley

erichaley

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I apologize if this exact question has been asked already, a search answered some bits and pieces, but not the whole scenario...

I bought a black 2013 Honda Accord Touring a couple of months ago and, although almost all new cars have orange peel these days, I found the orange peel on my new baby to be much worse than should be acceptable. I'm far too OCD to just leave it alone.

Here are some pictures as an example:

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I'll start by saying I know that factory paint is very thin, which is the primary reason I'm asking my question the way I am. My question is:

Which of the following is the best / safest way to remove or at least minimize the orange peel on my car without repainting? I'm looking to minimize the amount of clear that is removed while also maximizing the results as much as is practical. My current equipment includes a PC 7424XP and a Griot's 3" polisher. I'm willing to invest a reasonable amount in additional tools if absolutely necessary. I'm also open to other reasonable alternatives that I can do myself.

Option 1:
Damp sand with 5000 grit sandpaper, such as the 3M Trizact 5000 grit discs. Will these discs help to level the paint without taking too much off? Are they even aggressive enough?

Option 2:
Damp sand with 3000 grit sandpaper, such as the 3M Trizact or the Meguiar's Uni-grit 3000 grit discs?

Option 3:
Use a Car-Pro velvet pad with the appropriate compound, which I understand to be equivalent to a 3000 grit sandpaper.

Option 4:
Use a combination of any of the following products I already own: Meguiar's M101 / M105 / M205 with either foam pads or microfiber cutting / finishing discs? My concern with using this process is that this method of polishing will remove clear from both the peaks and valleys of the orange peel, leaving me no better off than before.

Option 5:
Complain to Honda and make them fix it (very slim chance of this actually working...)
 
The Velvet pads are not that aggressive and wont remove you much as sand paper does,
the denims removed about 2~3 microns each pass you do.
i suggest you first to check how thick is your clearcoat
 
I do plan on purchasing a PTG. I'm really interested in the velvet pads, but everyone seems to be out of stock. I'd need them in both 3" and 5" sizes.
 
Ehhh Honda Paint... I have it in my front bumper but I learned to live with it. So the whole car would be mirror liks except front bumper. One day I'm going to wet sand it and ill let you know how thin is it since I'll be replacing the bumper anyways. As far as now goes its going to be pretty scary on a new car. I don't even dare to wet sand my headlights cause it's retrofitted and I pay a lot of money for it so yeah.
 
Is this a DD? If so:

I'm sure you know that if you successfully remove all of this orange peel...
the CC will be even thinner than it is now.

How, then, do you plan on protecting all of the paint-film layers in order
for them, (including the CC), to last their expected life-span?

Perhaps one of the Opti-Coatings?

Just curious.

:)

Bob
 
Basically, I'm looking for the method that is going to be most effective while also removing the least amount of clear from the "valleys" of the orange peel texture.
 
I would just leave it alone. You are likely going to reduce paint thickness thus leading to more problems down the road. If you are really ocd like you said your best bet is to get it repainted or re-clear coated.
 
If you do this it would seem advisable, as FUNX suggested, to apply a coating afterwards to "replace" any UV protection you have removed.
 
Let me also add that, although I'd love to have a show car finish, I know it just isn't practical without major expense. I basically just want to "knock down the high spots". Also, the whole car doesn't look like this. It's mostly limited to the vertical surfaces, some of which are better than others. I can post more pics if it will help.

Is it even worth trying the 5000 grit? What "grit equivalent" would M101 or M105 be on a DA with different pads?
 
From a Mike Phillips article, posted several years ago:

"The way orange peel is removed normally is to wet-sand the surface till it's flat and then remove your sanding marks
using a rotary buffer with a wool or foam cutting pad with a cutting compound. After the initial cut is made then the paint
is put through at least one or more machine polishing steps to remove swirls and work the paint up to a high gloss finish".

"This is usually done on fresh paint applied at a body shop. The problem with doing this to a factory finish is generally speaking",

"Factory paint is thin - Remember the sanding process removes paint as does the machine compounding step
Most clear coat paints are harder versus soft like fresh paint, this makes buffing out your sanding marks difficult
The job of wet-sanding and the buffing out the sanding marks is difficult even if you have a lot of experience
doing this and even if you're good at and even if you like doing this kind of hard work".

"If you don't want to do it yourself then finding someone that has all the qualities listed above
at a price you want to pay can be very difficult to do also".


Keep in mind that:

-CC paint-film has become thinner and thinner since this article was posted.

-To the best of my recollection:
Mr. Phillips has stated on several occasions that he would rather not wet (damp) sand Factory CC...
Leave it to the 'other guy' to do so, in other words.

As such:
-Are you "hell bent to leather" to be the 'other guy'?
-Didn't you see this unwanted, of what you now consider:
an undue amount of orange peel...before you signed the dotted line?

:)

Bob
 
Bob,

I appreciate your comments. I'm afraid I am becoming that hell-bent guy. I sometimes become consumed by a problem and become determined to fix it come hell or high water. It's a great trait to have as a programmer, but maybe not so good when it comes to something like factory orange peel. I did read Mike's articles and I found them to be very helpful.

As far as why didn't I notice this when I signed on the dotted line? Well, there are a number of reasons, some of which are:
- I had already waited four months from order to delivery (the Touring model represents about 1% of all 2013 Accords produced);
- Delivery was done in an indoor "delivery bay", and although I noticed it on the C pillar, it didn't look so bad at the time;
- Most new cars have some degree of orange peel;
- This is my first black car, so maybe I was just noticing it more;
- I didn't think there would have been anything Honda could have done about it.
 
erichaley said:
- I didn't think there would have been anything Honda could have done about it.
Click to expand...
Probably not.
Not as long as the paint-films that were sprayed on your vehicle
met/fell within Honda's paint-engineering specs.

Not that I can be held personally responsible about the orange peel,
no matter at which final-assembly plant it was sprayed at...

But was the final assembly done at:
-Marysville, Ohio
-El Salto, Jalisco, Mexico
-Sayama, Japan
-Ontario, Canada

:)

Bob
 
Since the VIN starts with a 1, I believe final assembly would have been done in Ohio.
 
erichaley said:
Since the VIN starts with a 1, I believe final assembly would have been done in Ohio.
Click to expand...
OH NO!! :(

I'll blame it on my cousin that used to work in the paint kitchen up there...
Don't know if he still does, though.

:)

Bob
 
Do you think it's worth pursuing with Honda? Maybe they could add a few coats of clear and wet sand it? I'm not sure how or if they handle orange peel. Again, I understand most new cars have orange peel to a certain degree, but I think mine could be considered excessive.
 
The finish is probably at an "acceptable" level per the factory specs. So they will probably tell you tough, live with it.

The dealer will "fix" it by buffing it out.

From the looks of it 90% of body shops would say that is acceptable as well since that is how their finishes leave their shops as well.

I would be careful sanding it down as well since you will be removing protection layers especially on a daily driver that will spend time in the sun.

Personally I would live with it, however if you sand it and buff let us know how it went!

good luck
 
Besides the licensee plate will cover most of it and that area is a real PITA to sand and buff
 
Okay, not to beat a dead horse, but I went to the dealership over lunch, and they could feel the orange peel as well. Unfortunately, a survey of other Accords on the lot show a similar amount of orange peel, so i think my chances of Honda fixing it are slim to none. Also, their magnetic PTG shows about 4-5 mils on the roof and a pretty consistent 6-7 on the rest of the vehicle. Now, I know this isn't precise, which is the reason I will be buying an electronic PTG, but it does appear that I have a little more wiggle room than I originally thought.

In other news, I received my Car-Pro velvet and denim pads yesterday. I did some testing on the drivers side-view mirror (I can order a painted housing from Honda in case I screwed up) with the velvet pad, some Car-Pro fixer, and my PC 7424 XP and I saw some noticeable improvement using light to moderate pressure. I wasn't ready to get too aggressive just yet. It appears there may be some hope after all in at least reducing the orange peel…
 
It was my Grandmas birthday and got to talk to him to my uncle in person. He is probably 30 (weird I know) cos I'm 26 lol

Well he encouraged me to keep pursuing my passion of True Detailing (more on that later)

He said that a Paint thickness gauge is a magnet that measures the metal to the clear coat.

The problem with this is (according to him) the car can have 7 coats of primer 2 coats of paint and 1/2 a coat of clear. So you might get a reading of having sufficient CC.

I am going to be doing my other uncles black BMW (full of holograms and orange peel in the front) I asked him, "when I used to work at the shop I always knew how much CC was put on, but I should't assume the same amount was put on, right especially cos we do not know who painted it?" He said "yep"

So I asked him what he would personally do with this Black BMW not knowing it's history. He said "I would clay bar it then hit the orange peel with 3000 then buff it out and call it a day"

Now back to this car:
The orange peel on this Honda looks really bad. If I saw it walking by I would think to myself. Ehh probably been repainted.

If he did color sand it with 3000 and then 5000 would it be that much CC taken off? Especially since it is a OEM paint job?
 
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