Rabidracoon28
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- Apr 10, 2013
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Please see a review i did for the best snowfoam and citrus pre-clean i have ever used. (Detailworld Forum)
LINK REMOVED : SEE TERMS AND CONDITIONS
LINK REMOVED : SEE TERMS AND CONDITIONS
100:1 best snowfoam ever Orchard Autocare
- Thread starter Rabidracoon28
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silverfox
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- Oct 5, 2010
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I realize its a global market place but sorry, I'm all about supporting our economy and not somebody else's whenever possible.
I think the Brits have some of the best car care products in the world that are not available in the USA.
I'm especially interested in their pre wash products that really have not caught on in the states. We are awash in foam products but from I've been reading on their forums, the foam crowd in Europe is getting smaller everyday in favor of pre washing.
If you can get wash a car to be as close to hand wash quality without ever touching the paint or harming the wax, it changes many things.
It will eventually spill over here if past history is any indicator.
I think the Brits have some of the best car care products in the world that are not available in the USA.
I'm especially interested in their pre wash products that really have not caught on in the states. We are awash in foam products but from I've been reading on their forums, the foam crowd in Europe is getting smaller everyday in favor of pre washing.
If you can get wash a car to be as close to hand wash quality without ever touching the paint or harming the wax, it changes many things.
It will eventually spill over here if past history is any indicator.
TroyScherer
Active member
- Sep 19, 2009
- 1,924
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It looks interesting. But I am not sure that I am impressed with the dilution ratio. My choice for bucket and foam gun is Meguiar’s Hyper-Wash. And the bucket dilution is 400:1 so the foam gun dilution is really even more.
But as a car soap connoisseur I would love to try this some time in the future to see how it stacks up against all the others I have tried.
I quite agree with you but you do have to watch out for when the international market throws up something not available on your domestic market. Iron-X and comparable, for instance - no point ignoring the product category just because it isn't available locally.
I actually think you guys have yet to actually get the foam bug - it has only begun. You have way fewer variations - for the most part you guys are just using car wash shampoos. I have several times alluded to the fact that there are not only dedicated products, but there are also sub-divisions. So far almost no one has actually been able to identify pH neutral versus alkaline versus caustic alkaline.
I do tend to agree though, prewash products give a lot more scope but there remains some obvious downsides. Notably, most of the popular prewash products need to be used at high concentrations. As a manufacturer/chemist, I can tell you that if you are using a product neat or even at something like 10:1 - it is far from a strong product! I would like to see people acknowledge that dilutions like 50:1 and higher are really not difficult to achieve and start questioning why they are paying so much for products which are dramatically diluted in comparison!
FUNX650
New member
- Dec 1, 2010
- 21,057
- 1
I've come to realize that there are some folks that think "pre-wash products" for automotive usage is a 'new-thing' going on nowadays.
But I know from first-hand experience that "pre-wash" car-care products have been available in the States for at least 55 years now.
Of course they: have had/gone by...many different names over the years. Marketing, I suppose/assume plays a big role in this.
I've known "pre-wash cleaners" as (among other names):
TFR's, Snow Foams/Foaming Washes, Degreasers, Bug&Tar Removers; Now: "Citrus-this/Citrus-that", etc.
And they have come to bear with many different: "Dilution ratios, pH's, alkalinities, and causticities", as it were.
As I've stated before:
"A rose by any other name..."~ "The Bard"
What goes around, comes around.
Can the Nehru Jacket be far behind?
Bob
Beware to compare apple's and apples. Snowfoams are not shampoos - a decent preash or foam will be a much much stronger cleaner than a shampoo type product. Read around the topic and the standard dilution for snowfoam in a lance bottle is 10 to 1, prewash is often used at this dilution on the surface.
TroyScherer
Active member
- Sep 19, 2009
- 1,924
- 21
I will prefs this by saying I do use snow foams and soaps at times.
Why would I want to spray a really strong snow foam on my car that has the overal potential to strip / degrade my LSP faster? At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how strong a soap is that is used. It is the mechanical action that washes the soap and dirt away.
Basicly I am getting at the fact that most of the time I can get the same amount of cleaning from just using a pressure washer as I can foaming nd then using a pressure washer. Simply because around here we don't offer or have "no touch" foam and rinse off soaps avalible. (For whatever reason, I don't know but I would like to try some for ease of use)
Also I do agree that companies could make much more concentrated version of products and save in packaging, shipping costs. That is one reason why I have always leaned more towards the high dilution products.
Hello all I thought i would post up a wee reply. I hope Mike and Co dont mind me posting its not advertising but more a reply to a thread where my products are mentioned. If so then feel free to moderate but I would like to raise a few points that I feel have been made that may need clarification.
My name is Rollo Gillespie and i own Orchard Autocare. who manufacture the products mentioned. We are one of the only companies that actually design and manufacture our own bespoke products rather than buying from wholesale manufactuers diluting to a level rebottling and relabelling. Most companies rebottle but very few develop their own products.
Our snow foam is totally wax safe and has been designed in a way that it has cleaning power but will not strip any LSP that has been applied to the car. For heavier washing, we use our Citrus Preclean that at 50:1 dilution will strip some protection but it has a higher cleaning power and if its needed to remove bonded dirt, then it is safe to assume that the protection you have previously applied has been compromised. I agree with you re dilution rates and we also manufactre a 2000:1 dilution ratio snow foam that I can supply a link to but we recieved critism about teh price but when u factored it out litre for litre it is a similar price to what you would pay for a 200:1 foam.
Shampoos are a different matter hyper wash personally is not a product that I would use on my car if you then say about not wanting to use a product that will remove LSP as it will ahpply do that as that what its designed to do. We manufacture a shampoo that is a minimum of 2000:1 dilution and can go happily as far as 5000:1 dilution which as we are aware makes it the mose concentrated production shampoo available to retail customers. again this is a pure shampoo with no glossing agents or whetting agents that some botique manufactures use to palm you off with "slick" water and no bubbles all that does is leave a bonded film of surfactant on your paintwork that will inhibit any LSP that is already there.
Pre washes are not a new thing it is something we have been doing for years. it is a stage that allows you to minimise contact with the paintwork when the vehicle is at its dirtiest and the risk of damage is at its highest. The thing is a lot of "detailers" work on cars that are usualy in a pretty clean state where as and i speak for myself most cars I work on usually have an inch of dirt on them when they arrive (I live in Ireland and its wet and muddy all year round). Its not a new thing as I have used it when valeting cars back in 1996 and was amazed when Detailers in 2006 would not do this. its like using a mitt and only using water and no foam or shampoo when washing this will have an extremly high risk for potential damage in real world detailing.
With regards to USA distribution I would totally agree and it is something we are looking at as we are up there with teh best on teh market and I have tried to make contact with Mike and am convinced that he would really love the products if he used them. We manufacture in house rather than buy wholesale so we can make a far more superior product for a similar price as we dont have to factor a mark up and because of this we are rapidly gaining momentum in the UK and Europian market as well as supplying some very prestigious OEM manufacturers One came on board this week looking us to develop a product specifically for them.
I hope this has not opver stepped the mark Mike as im not plugging but was made aware of this and thought I would put some input towards it.
My name is Rollo Gillespie and i own Orchard Autocare. who manufacture the products mentioned. We are one of the only companies that actually design and manufacture our own bespoke products rather than buying from wholesale manufactuers diluting to a level rebottling and relabelling. Most companies rebottle but very few develop their own products.
Our snow foam is totally wax safe and has been designed in a way that it has cleaning power but will not strip any LSP that has been applied to the car. For heavier washing, we use our Citrus Preclean that at 50:1 dilution will strip some protection but it has a higher cleaning power and if its needed to remove bonded dirt, then it is safe to assume that the protection you have previously applied has been compromised. I agree with you re dilution rates and we also manufactre a 2000:1 dilution ratio snow foam that I can supply a link to but we recieved critism about teh price but when u factored it out litre for litre it is a similar price to what you would pay for a 200:1 foam.
Shampoos are a different matter hyper wash personally is not a product that I would use on my car if you then say about not wanting to use a product that will remove LSP as it will ahpply do that as that what its designed to do. We manufacture a shampoo that is a minimum of 2000:1 dilution and can go happily as far as 5000:1 dilution which as we are aware makes it the mose concentrated production shampoo available to retail customers. again this is a pure shampoo with no glossing agents or whetting agents that some botique manufactures use to palm you off with "slick" water and no bubbles all that does is leave a bonded film of surfactant on your paintwork that will inhibit any LSP that is already there.
Pre washes are not a new thing it is something we have been doing for years. it is a stage that allows you to minimise contact with the paintwork when the vehicle is at its dirtiest and the risk of damage is at its highest. The thing is a lot of "detailers" work on cars that are usualy in a pretty clean state where as and i speak for myself most cars I work on usually have an inch of dirt on them when they arrive (I live in Ireland and its wet and muddy all year round). Its not a new thing as I have used it when valeting cars back in 1996 and was amazed when Detailers in 2006 would not do this. its like using a mitt and only using water and no foam or shampoo when washing this will have an extremly high risk for potential damage in real world detailing.
With regards to USA distribution I would totally agree and it is something we are looking at as we are up there with teh best on teh market and I have tried to make contact with Mike and am convinced that he would really love the products if he used them. We manufacture in house rather than buy wholesale so we can make a far more superior product for a similar price as we dont have to factor a mark up and because of this we are rapidly gaining momentum in the UK and Europian market as well as supplying some very prestigious OEM manufacturers One came on board this week looking us to develop a product specifically for them.
I hope this has not opver stepped the mark Mike as im not plugging but was made aware of this and thought I would put some input towards it.
This really is a topic broad enough for a thread of its own. Yes, there are products which will degrade LSP notably but even the strongest snowfoams, when use appropriately, are unlikely to strip totally. Many of the middle ground products - non-caustic and even mildly caustic alkaline - will do practically no damage to any decent LSP.
The matter of pressure washers and mechanical action will clearly depend upon the sort of soiling you have. It is true that many parts of the US have very little in the way of bound dirt and traffic film - a pressure washer will do the job most of the time. That said, so would a waterless wash. I cannot comment about areas of the US which suffer similarly but the previous description is typically invalid in the UK. Typically he have high levels of soiling which are mixed with oil traffic films - a pressure washer will only do so much. In this instance, the use of a good snowfoam or prewash will show a night and day improvement in the level of soiling remaining after pressure washing. This is something which has been tested and demonstrated repeatedly by any number of users in the UK. Inspite of this, and as above, it is possible to achieve this additional cleaning without removal of the basic LSP and you can even achieve an adequate finish without the need for the use of a hand washing medium, even with vehicles which are extremely heavily soiled.
I would certainly be happy to discuss this further but, as before, it would probably warrant a thread of its own.
TroyScherer
Active member
- Sep 19, 2009
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Welcome to AG Rollo. Since this is the first I noticed you were here. I have watch some of your product development and I will say I am interested and intrigued. I would be interested in getting ahold of some of your stuff and testing them out.
Mr Megane, I just want to add I always like reading your information as it very informative and gives a look into the chemistry behind the products.
TroyScherer
Active member
- Sep 19, 2009
- 1,924
- 21
I would definitely be interested.