1972 Cutlass - Wet-sanded and Ceramic Coated - PBL Diamond Paint Coating

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1972 Cutlass - Wet-sanded and Ceramic Coated - PBL Diamond Paint Coating


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At my recent 3-day car detailing class we detailed 14 cars in 3 days including wetsanding a 1948 Chevy Suburban Streetrod and a Dodge Ram 3500 Pickup Truck. For these two truck the class learned a technique I call,

Scuff & Buff

Check them out... they look great! And the majority of the people in this class had never wetsanded a car before nor used a rotary polisher with a wool pad to buff out a car.

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Out of the other 12 cars detailed in this 3-day class, we used one of the student's cars to learn Production Detailing. This is Ryan's 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass AFTER the class buffed it out.

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Looks great huh?

Yes it does. But - this custom paint job had a lot of orange peel, dye-back or shrink back that revealed prep work in the primer as well as other surface texture defects.


Orange Peel

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On the other side of the trunk lid you could see D.A. Sanding Marks, called Pig Tails in the underlying coats of paint. The pig tails are actually UNDER the clearcoat and if there's enough clear paint over the basecoat we'll be able to remover or at least improve how they look.


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Here's the pig tails...

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Because I already had 2 vehicles for the wetsanding portion of the 3-day class, I invited Ryan to bring his 1972 Cutlass back to Autogeek where if he let me use the trunk lid for two LIVE Detailing Classes showing how to hand sand and how to machine sand, I would help him to wet sand all the rest of the body panels using the Scuff & Buff Technique to safely level some of the orange peel and other surface imperfections and the ceramic coat the paint.

He said yes.

Next I'll share a few pictures and the LIVE Detailing Class videos we shot that are very educational followed by the final results.



:)
 
Continued....


Here's the finish after scuffing with 3M Trizact #3000 by Hand.


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Here's after compounding and polishing with Pinnacle Advanced Compound. We used FLEX Cordless PE14 with RUPES Twisted Wool Pad to cut out the sanding marks and followed with the FLEX Supa BEAST with a RUPES 180mm Yellow CP Foam Pad to polish and remove the holograms.

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Here's everything we used...

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Here's final results...

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Thank you Ryan for trusting Autogeek with your beautiful 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass!



:cheers:
 
And here's the 2 YouTube videos we made using this car,


On Autogeek - Hand wetsanding with Nikken Unigrit Finishing Papers



On Mobile Tech Expo - Machine Damp Sanding with 3M Trizact #3000



Here's a full video on the Scuff & Buff Technique





And here's my full write-up on the 1937 Ford Wood we wetsanded using the scuff and buff technique.

How-to Wetsand using the Scuff and Buff Technique - 1937 Ford Woody

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:)
 
At Mike P. If the pig tails are under the clear as you stated..how can you remove or improve them by wet sanding the top of the clear coat? Is it because the top clear coat is outlining the pig tails in the base coat?
 
At Mike P. If the pig tails are under the clear as you stated..how can you remove or improve them by wet sanding the top of the clear coat? Is it because the top clear coat is outlining the pig tails in the base coat?

I'm not Mike but I'll try to answer your question anyways...

The pigtails originated in the underlying coats. Either the primer surfacer (most likely) or in the color coats if they were sanded (less likely). Then as the color and clear are applied they tend to fill the pigtail scratches but never to the point that they are completely level at the paint's surface.

So, the pigtails are still visible at the surface, but the fact that they originated "below surface", is where the description "UNDER the clear-coat" comes from. They are a scratch pattern "in the paint" rather than a scratch in the surface of an otherwise flat finish.

Regardless of where or how the scratch originated, removing them at the surface is the same process... Sand them smooth and then polish.

Another consideration when working with metallics is that even though you can sand and polish the surface smooth, there is always a chance that the scratch pattern will still be visible because the metallic particle distribution is irregular within the underlying scratch and will reflect light accordingly even though the surface is perfectly smooth. The scratches in this example were not that bad so there's a pretty good chance that is not the case here, but it is possible.

Hope that explanation helps.
 
They are a scratch pattern "in the paint" rather than a scratch in the surface of an otherwise flat surface.


So how do you remove them by removing paint from the top coat?:dunno:
 
They are a scratch pattern "in the paint" rather than a scratch in the surface of an otherwise flat surface.


So how do you remove them by removing paint from the top coat?:dunno:

Let's try this again... They are a scratch in the underlying coat(s). When you spray a coat of paint over the scratch, the scratch is still there, it's just filled in a bit with the paint you sprayed. Continue spraying and the scratch becomes "buried" in the paint, but it still shows up at the surface. You can sand and polish the surface to remove the visual indications of the scratch at the surface, but the scratch is still buried, or encased, within the paint film thickness even though you can no longer see it at the surface.

That's why it was described as "UNDER the clear-coat". It's "in the paint". It's not from the surface being scratched after the paint was applied.

The only way I could explain it any better than I've already tried would be with a drawing or sketch. Maybe I'll work on that.
 
Let's try this again... They are a scratch in the underlying coat(s). When you spray a coat of paint over the scratch, the scratch is still there, it's just filled in a bit with the paint you sprayed. Continue spraying and the scratch becomes "buried" in the paint, but it still shows up at the surface. You can sand and polish the surface to remove the visual indications of the scratch at the surface, but the scratch is still buried, or encased, within the paint film thickness even though you can no longer see it at the surface.

That's why it was described as "UNDER the clear-coat".

"On the other side of the trunk lid you could see D.A. Sanding Marks, called Pig Tails in the underlying coats of paint. The pig tails are actually UNDER the clearcoat and if there's enough clear paint over the basecoat we'll be able to remover or at least improve how they look."

I understand what you are saying, but how can you remove the pig tails by sanding the top clear as stated above?
 
"On the other side of the trunk lid you could see D.A. Sanding Marks, called Pig Tails in the underlying coats of paint. The pig tails are actually UNDER the clearcoat and if there's enough clear paint over the basecoat we'll be able to remover or at least improve how they look."

I understand what you are saying, but how can you remove the pig tails by sanding the top clear as stated above?

Technically, you are not removing the pig tails... They are still buried within the paint film.

What you are actually doing is removing the appearance of the pig tails at the surface and as long as you can't see them at the surface, then they are for all practical purposes "removed".
 
Technically, you are not removing the pig tails... They are still buried within the paint film.

What you are actually doing is removing the appearance of the pig tails at the surface and as long as you can't see them at the surface, then they are for all practical purposes "removed".
Just what I thought.:xyxthumbs:
 
I would like to thank Mike for giving me this great opportunity to learn hands on with him. This was an awesome learning experience.

I look forward to using the techniques I learned in the future. The car has never looked better!

Thank you again for everything.

Kind regards,
Ryan

:xyxthumbs:
 
I would like to thank Mike for giving me this great opportunity to learn hands on with him. This was an awesome learning experience. I look forward to using the techniques I learned in the future. The car has never looked better! Thank you again for everything.

Kind regards,
Ryan

Which car was yours, Ryan?
 
I'm not Mike but I'll try to answer your question anyways...


Thanks for explaining the "hard to explain" John.


For those reading this now and into the future,


Here's the passenger side of the trunk lid where there were the most visible pig tails.

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Here's the pig tails...

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Here's the same area after hand sanding, compounding and polishing....

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While the original defects, (the pig tails), were caused in the underlying layers of paint, these defects translated into all the layers of paint and thus sanding the top coat made them visually disappear.



:)
 
Great write up from Mike and follow-up info from John!

My sister-in-laws 66 GTO clone had these pigtails in the paint. I tried for a long time to get them out before realizing they were in the paint and not the clear. Another learning experience!
 
Great write up from Mike and follow-up info from John!

Thanks for the comment, I almost forgot about this project and it's only been ONE WEEK since we did it!


My sister-in-laws 66 GTO clone had these pigtails in the paint. I tried for a long time to get them out before realizing they were in the paint and not the clear. Another learning experience!


And as you know, just like a great detail, the end-results all start with the prep-work.


:dblthumb2:
 
... My sister-in-laws 66 GTO clone had these pigtails in the paint. I tried for a long time to get them out before realizing they were in the paint and not the clear. Another learning experience!

What you are likely experiencing is the disruption of the metallic orientation resulting from the underlying scratches as I described in post #7.

... Another consideration when working with metallics is that even though you can sand and polish the surface smooth, there is always a chance that the scratch pattern will still be visible because the metallic particle distribution is irregular within the underlying scratch and will reflect light accordingly even though the surface is perfectly smooth...
 
:bump:

Here's another explanation of dieback from forum member Ken Tuep

Take from post #3 in this thread,



Newbie advise on minimizing "paint dieback"




From Ken Tuep

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What usually causes dieback is applying too wet, or too soon between coats. The reducers need to completely flash before the next coat is applied. Fast reducers are more likely to cause dieback because they trap the solvents under the paint.

If I apply 3 coats of clearcoat, I'm sure to give ample flash time before the 3rd coat. If the film build is thicker than recommended by the paint manufacturer, it can cause dieback. I usually follow the manufacturers directions, and dont usually have issues.

Your best bet is to wetsand the paint to open it, and let it outcast for a day or two, then try polishing.
I'd recommend a rotary polisher if you don't have one. A Porter cable will work,( probably taking 3 times longer) but you'd need to finish out with a minimum of 3000 grit sandpaper.

You will have to sand it either way, but it might not completely remove all the dieback, time is gonna be your friend, depending on temperature and humidity.

Me personally, I'd block sand with 600 grit wet, let it dry for a week, and respray the clearcoat.

Perform a test spot on a panel, and see if polishing will work before sanding the entire vehicle down, to make sure you're getting the results you want.

Hopefully this helps ya out.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Hope that helps...


:cheers:
 
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