65 Mustang base/clear from 1987

6

65 Mustang

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Hello All,

First post. Not a pro, but better than the average guy trying to salvage old paint, or so I think. I have a 65 Mustang that was last painted in 1987, base/clear. Been resurrecting it and in an attempt to make it presentable thought I had paint looking really good, relatively speaking. No clue type of paint, but I wet sanded it, then used Akrya 600, some other Akrya finer compound/polish, Meguiar's 105/205/polish/wax. Looked great - see photo of entire top of car.

The problem: First time it sat out in the sun (couple of weeks ago), the spots appeared. Searched the site and found the thread on leopard spots/finger marks. Also read about older clear coat breaking down or just not lasting. I looked through several photos of the car before I started. Many of the spots and streaks were already there, so I don't believe I necessarily created them, just exposed them. None were noticeable after the wet sanding though.

Thoughts as to the problem? Any solutions beyond complete respray? I don't think it'd be worth my time to wet sand and re-clear it, but if I did, do you think it would resolve the issue? Sounds like it'd be a challenge to ensure all clear was removed and thus better to respray entire car. The car is a good driver for what it is. To repaint it leads to new interior, underhood detailing, etc. Just not ready for that yet.

Thanks,
Robert
 
Welcome to AGO, Robert.

We have more than a few pro's here, and also some guys who work/worked in body shops and painting experts. (I am definitely not one of those guys.)

When those guys see this, they will have an answer for you one way or the other......... Hold tight. :)
 
First you might want to see if you can get the paint checked for thickness.

If you were to repair it again, I’d recommend putting a ceramic coating on the clearcoat to seal it well. Then maybe put a topper on the coating to give it additional protection from water spots.

There are a ton of ceramic coatings. CQuartz UK 3 is one of the stalwarts.
 
I'm one of the "paint guys" PaulMys referred to... Without seeing the paint in person it's really hard to diagnose but I'll give it my best shot.

If those defects that I see in your photos are after wetsanding and polishing, then I can say with near certainty that there is nothing more you could do to try to remove/improve upon them. I would bet that if you inspected those areas with 10x magnification you would find the clear to be compromised... Either very small cracks, porosity or some other type of film failure in the affected areas that likely extends well into or even all the way through the clear. With older paint systems it's even possible that the defects extend into the color coats.

As for the 1980s era paints, urethanes and "true" base coat/clear coat systems for the automotive market were in their infancy. There is actually a pretty good chance that what you really have is a single-stage color coat topped with a clear acrylic enamel that had a urethane conversion additive mixed in. In these older paint systems the color and clear coats are actually one. They "melt" into each other. A much different paint system than today's base coat/clear coat finishes where the clear coat sits on top of the separate color coat. The clear coat bonds to the color coat but it does not melt together as one.

As far as sanding and re-clearing goes, that is a real crapshoot. You may be able to achieve some improvement, but expecting a "like new" finish is not realistic. The flaws in the existing finish will almost certainly telegraph through to the new finish.

Stripping (to metal) and restarting from scratch is the only real option in my book.

Hope that explanation helps. Unfortunately, it's not a remedy for your problem, but rather some information to help with understanding what you are dealing with. And again, this is my best shot at an internet diagnosis... Certainly not a "for sure" alternate for a real live inspection.
 
A vehicle of that value. You have no choice. At some point, you have to take it down to metal and repaint.

Now if it was a Pinto, you could take it to Maaco. Jk, they probably have value now too.
 
Wow! Thanks for the quick responses. This was my COVID purchase last March. Spent most of my lunch hours in the garage working on it when having to work from home while quarantined. I seem to recall getting rid of most of the marks via wet sanding (1000 on up to 3000 grit). There may have been a few of the perimeters still slightly present. I agree with you, 2black1s, that magnified it would be very telling. I hit one spot again with the buffer but have yet to put it back in the sun.

There are only a couple of places I broke through to the paint, and I hit it hard due to the amount of texture, so figured it's some sort of base/clear.

She's still a looker, despite the flaws. This photo is before pulling it out of the garage for the first time. I only cut and buffed the horizontal surfaces and sides down to the coves. Hoping sides aren't affected. If not I'll do the remainder.

Robert
 
I do work for a Classic car dealership and actually see this quite often on cars that have been repainted in that late '80's time line with base coat/ clear coat.

There is actually a few cars in there right now that have this going on.

I myself have been able to improve them a lot but never been able to totally remove them especially when they run as deep as the one im pointing to. And all the vehicles I have seen have literally the exact same characteristics and patterns as what you're seeing.

dac98e37516a13e821103d9fcaeeab1a.jpg
 
Welcome to AGO! Awesome car - love old Mustangs (my old man has a 64.5 Mustang 289 D-Code/4 speed convertible). I see the 289 emblems and the fog lights, so assuming a 289 A-Code GT Fastback. What tranny does it have? Looks like it has AC through the window, does it also have Pony interior - looks like standard parchment from that view?
 
A-code, 4-speed, A/C, standard white interior, non-GT. I added fog lights and have trumpet exhaust to install. Your Dad's sounds like a keeper too.
 
65 Mustang said:
... I seem to recall getting rid of most of the marks via wet sanding (1000 on up to 3000 grit). There may have been a few of the perimeters still slightly present...
Click to expand...


There's a really simple and likely reason that the defects appear to have been removed by sanding, only to re-appear after polishing.

If you take any one of the general defects that you see and break it down, what you really have is a multitude of microscopic defects clustered tightly enough together resulting in the general "larger" defect that is visible to your eyes. When you sanded the surface, the sand scratches and general haziness of the surface are enough to camouflage the micro defects. They are still there, its just that your eyes can't easily see them.

Now you move on to polish the surface. When the sand scratches and haziness from sanding are removed by polishing, the defects become more discernible to your eyes. Again, they were always there, you just couldn't see them in the sanded surface.

Another contributing factor is that when polishing and waxing, there are more than likely some polish and wax residues left behind that have penetrated the micro defects. As these residues dry out they will tend to turn to a whitish, chalky type substance within the micro defects, thus amplifying the appearance of the overall general blemished area.

Back to the suggestion of inspecting the flaws with a 10x (or higher) magnifier lens... That can either prove or disprove my ideas of what you are dealing with. Regardless, it will certainly give you a better understanding of the actual paint condition in the affected areas.
 
Normally I would have washed the car really well between stages, but since it wasn't running was tucked in the back of the garage, I didn't. In the event any remaining residues did contribute to what I'm seeing, is there a preferred cleaner or cleaning method between stages?

I hit a spot on top of the rear quarter with the buffer and 600 Akrya, washed it really well with soap and water, and the car has been out in the bright sunshine for a few hours now. It wasn't a very bad spot, but so far so good. Time will tell.
 
65 Mustang said:
Normally I would have washed the car really well between stages, but since it wasn't running was tucked in the back of the garage, I didn't. In the event any remaining residues did contribute to what I'm seeing, is there a preferred cleaner or cleaning method between stages?

I hit a spot on top of the rear quarter with the buffer and 600 Akrya, washed it really well with soap and water, and the car has been out in the bright sunshine for a few hours now. It wasn't a very bad spot, but so far so good. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

If the residues are causing the issue, I don't really know of any easy way to remove them. What I have done in the past when experiencing this is to saturate the areas with an oily protectant or silicone oil. The oils will penetrate, moisturize, and clarify the residues, thereby reducing their visual prominence.

This method won't last forever but its easy to repeat periodically as required.
 
Would Meguiar’s #7 glaze help moisturize and “fill” some of the pores 2black1s?
 
dgage said:
Would Meguiar’s #7 glaze help moisturize and “fill” some of the pores 2black1s?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure as its been years since I used #7, and even then, I only used it on new paint for its incredible shine and color enhancement properties. I never tried it for the situation discussed here.

While #7 does have a high oil content, I don't know how it would work in this situation. It might leave behind residues of its own in the subject defects. It's for that reason I think a crystal clear product will provide a better result, hence the suggestion of an "oily protectant" or "silicone oil".

That said, it is certainly reasonable to try #7. There's not any downside to trying it.
 
I buffed the top surfaces again, then washed it really well. Better, but not like the first time (several spots need wet sanding). Then I used #7. Have not put in in the sun yet. Prior to waxing, is it recommended I wash it really well first, or skip it and wax on? I suspect either way the spots will reappear.
 
Just wax it. No need to wash it (unless it has accumulated any dirt since the glaze application).

When you say several spots need wet sanding, I'd be very careful if you proceed down that path. If my assessment of the defects your dealing with is correct, wet sanding is not really an option... You'd have to sand all the way through the clear to remove them.

Did the #7 make any improvement?
 
Yes, for removing swirls from the rotary. I'll wax it for this weekend. Car show Saturday I'd like to attend in it. If spots reappear I'll pick one and wet sand away. We'll see.

Thanks,
Robert
 
65 Mustang said:
Yes, for removing swirls from the rotary...
Click to expand...

When asking how the #7 worked, I was referring to how well it worked to conceal the blemishes you are dealing with, not necessarily how well it concealed the buffer swirls. Concealing the appearance of buffer swirls is a primary characteristic of the #7 and I know it does that well.

Note the use of the word "concealed". That's what the #7 does... It does not remove buffer swirls. You would need to further polish by hand or DA to actually remove them.

The #7 is visually minimizing the appearance of the buffer swirls with its fillers. That is what it is designed to do. The buffer swirls will re-appear as the #7 degrades over time.

65 Mustang said:
... If spots reappear I'll pick one and wet sand away. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Your car, your choice, but I don't think wet sanding is your answer.

Granted, you are seeing the blemishes in-person and I'm trying to assess them over the internet. You have that advantage. But from what I can surmise from your pictures and descriptions, I don't think the risk/reward ratio associated with wet-sanding is in your favor. I'd be very careful.
 
No, #7 did not help with the spots.

Wet sanding is the pits. I likely will only do a test spot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top