Advice on the use of the Flex XC3401 VRG

[JackvRS]

Hello, i just signed up after watching the tutorials on Youtube, which are brilliant and well explained.

I bought the Flex after comparing it with the Rupes 19 and just thought the Flex would suit better for starting off although most people would say even its an advanced machine, but i am willing to learn and have a canvas to work with, an old VW Polo, I have a fair grasp of what I'm looking at but have a few questions;

1. Without buying another machine, can a smaller backing plate be used on the flex to do the areas between the doors and tight areas, obviously smaller areas will have to be done by hand anyways.

2. I have Meguiars Ultimate compound as its known here in Ireland, is this ok or is there something better that can be used?

3. I know from watching Mikes videos that Lake country orange, red and cyan pads seem to be what is needed, what sizes or are there better pads that are are effective? backing plate is 140mm or ~5.5inch

Any advice or further information I missed would be greatly appreciated! although the videos on youtube are brilliant.

thanks

Jack

Donegal, Ireland

 

[JustJesus]

Welcome to the Forum!

I love the Flex 3401. So much so, I have two.

For backing plates, you have two options:
- 4" version made by Lake Country (2 piece design) -FLEX XC3401 Changeable Backing Plate System
-4.5" version made by Flex (1 piece design) - FLEX XC3401 Mini 4.5 inch Backing Plate, FLEX

The 4" one is a super good price right now, too!!

Lake Country used to make a Hybrid Pad that was 5" in diameter with a 4" backing material that was perfect for the 4" backing plate. Not sure if the new Hybrid Force pads are similar or not.

I have the 4.5" version in transit, expecting it Monday. I finally went with that one so I can use the 5-5.5" pads I have. I don't think I'll use it as much as the 4" version, but it will be nice to have options.

Ultimate Compound is fine and should meet your needs. Plenty of quality options out there. I say work with what you have for now.

Pads, again you have choices. It seems the 3401 likes a thicker pad (Lake Country Hybrid Force pads, perhaps? They are made with forced rotation in mind). I have recently used some thin pads and thought the experience was still okay.

Mike Phillips wrote the book on the Flex 3401, literally. I bought it prior to getting the tool. Read it over a couple of times before I bought the machine, and have referred to it several times.

edit The colors you mentioned on #3, they sound like the Hydro Tech pads. Those are good pads, too. They also come in 4" diameter if you didn't know. The thicker ones are good for the 3401. I like the combo of the 4" plate and 4" HydroTech pads. You can also get the bigger size (thought not sure if 5.5 or 6.5) for the original Flex backing plate.

 

[JackvRS]

Thanks for getting back! yes ment to say they were the hydro tech pads, im a bit of a perfectionist, like all good detailers of course and want to start off in the right foot. ive a number of people wanting their car buffed, being Ireland a lot of people running about after spending 100$ on a buffer thinking they're professionals. Of course I will do my own car for practice first. that's some valuable information above there thanks for that too! I decided to go all out and go proper and buy the correct tool IMO for the job instead of going budget stuff although I do understand that a cheap polisher can be brilliant in the correct hands too. thanks for taking the time to get back to me.
Jack

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hello, i just signed up after watching the tutorials on Youtube, which are brilliant and well explained.

I bought the Flex after comparing it with the Rupes 19 and just thought the Flex would suit better for starting off although most people would say even its an advanced machine, but i am willing to learn and have a canvas to work with, an old VW Polo,

Hi Jack,

Welcome to the AGO forum. :welcome:

I have a fair grasp of what I'm looking at but have a few questions;

1. Without buying another machine, can a smaller backing plate be used on the flex to do the areas between the doors and tight areas, obviously smaller areas will have to be done by hand anyways.

Yes. FLEX offers a 4 3/8" backing plate that will enable you to use most 5" and 5 1/2" pads. I'm not in the office until Monday as I'm taking a few vacation days before they expire, but when I return I'll double check some good options for you.

For the most part I do everything with the Lake Country Force Hybrid 6.5" pads and when I need to work a thin panel I simply go up on edge.

2. I have Meguiars Ultimate compound as its known here in Ireland, is this ok or is there something better that can be used?

UC works great with the 3401 - you're good to go. (One of my classes buffed out the car on the front label of that product)

3. I know from watching Mikes videos that Lake country orange, red and cyan pads seem to be what is needed

My guess is we made that video when those pads came out, since then I've found any closed-cell foam pads tends to wear out faster than any open cell pads. I cover this in my how-to books. It has to do with "tensile strength".

Any advice or further information I missed would be greatly appreciated!

Jack

Donegal, Ireland

What I purposefully show in my classes is I make the students hold the pad perfectly flat to a flat surface on the 4-6 speed setting and get used to how the polisher feels.

Next, start tilting the pad to the surface and PURPOSEFULLY buff crooked. This will cause the tool to pul or want to walk in various directions depending on which side of the pad is in contact with the paint and which side of the pad is in the air.

What this teaches is that when you hold the pad flat to the surface the tool buffs smooth. When >you< don't hold the pad flat to the surface there nature of the gear-driven orbital action will tend to pull or push the tool around. This is the self-teaching aspect of 8mm gear-driven orbital telling you to correct how you're holding the tool.

Once you experience this, (the point of this in my class, hands-on experience), you understand the "characteristic" and instead of complain or whine about it you adjust how you hold the tool when buffing and power through a detail job.

The FLEX 3401 is a BEAST and aptly named.

Also, when it comes to correction work, foam cutting pads work better when they are the thicker options. Some guys like thin cutting pads like the 6.5" ThinPros but I find thin stiff pads don't buff as smooth on gear-driven orbitals and thicker foam pads.

When it comes to polishing it's less of an issue because the squish factor for the foam smooths the power out for the gear-driven orbitals.


Practice first on flat panels and then move to curved panels.

 

[JackvRS]

Hi Jack,

Welcome to the AGO forum. :welcome:





Yes. FLEX offers a 4 3/8" backing plate that will enable you to use most 5" and 5 1/2" pads. I'm not in the office until Monday as I'm taking a few vacation days before they expire, but when I return I'll double check some good options for you.

For the most part I do everything with the Lake Country Force Hybrid 6.5" pads and when I need to work a thin panel I simply go up on edge.






UC works great with the 3401 - you're good to go. (One of my classes buffed out the car on the front label of that product)




My guess is we made that video when those pads came out, since then I've found any closed-cell foam pads tends to wear out faster than any open cell pads. I cover this in my how-to books. It has to do with "tensile strength".





What I purposefully show in my classes is I make the students hold the pad perfectly flat to a flat surface on the 4-6 speed setting and get used to how the polisher feels.

Next, start tilting the pad to the surface and PURPOSEFULLY buff crooked. This will cause the tool to pul or want to walk in various directions depending on which side of the pad is in contact with the paint and which side of the pad is in the air.

What this teaches is that when you hold the pad flat to the surface the tool buffs smooth. When >you< don't hold the pad flat to the surface there nature of the gear-driven orbital action will tend to pull or push the tool around. This is the self-teaching aspect of 8mm gear-driven orbital telling you to correct how you're holding the tool.

Once you experience this, (the point of this in my class, hands-on experience), you understand the "characteristic" and instead of complain or whine about it you adjust how you hold the tool when buffing and power through a detail job.

The FLEX 3401 is a BEAST and aptly named.

Also, when it comes to correction work, foam cutting pads work better when they are the thicker options. Some guys like thin cutting pads like the 6.5" ThinPros but I find thin stiff pads don't buff as smooth on gear-driven orbitals and thicker foam pads.

When it comes to polishing it's less of an issue because the squish factor for the foam smooths the power out for the gear-driven orbitals.


Practice first on flat panels and then move to curved panels.

Thanks Mike for getting back to me, some brilliant tips and tricks, I’ve ordered and waiting for the machine to arrive, can’t wait! I have an old car available for practicing on so will keep you posted if I have any more queries. Thanks again.
Jack

 

[Kamakaz1961]

The Lake Country Hybrid Pads are the way to go IMO. I use them all the time. I use the Orange ones for correcting. The White ones for polishing. I use either a Black, Red or Gold pad for LSP and need just one of those.

You will love the Flex. That thing will keep on working. Just remember, let the product do the working for you. You do not need to apply too much pressure.

But you will need to get used to the walking (pulling or pushing away from you). DON'T WORRY! You will get used to it. Soon you can polish with 1 hand (if need be but most of the time 2 hands).

You will have fun and please let us know your experience with it soon along with Pics!

 

[JustJesus]

Kamakazi - Have you tried the Hybrid Force pads yet? I haven't as I still have plenty of the regular Hybrids

 

[spazzz]

I practiced on the washer and dryer when I got mine, then went to town.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Kamakazi - Have you tried the Hybrid Force pads yet? I haven't as I still have plenty of the regular Hybrids

No haven't tried them yet as I still have plenty of the hybrids. My guess they are just as good or better.

 

[JustJesus]

No haven't tried them yet as I still have plenty of the hybrids. My guess they are just as good or better.

Hope so. I do like the design, size, and fitment of the OGs

 

[JackvRS]

The Lake Country Hybrid Pads are the way to go IMO. I use them all the time. I use the Orange ones for correcting. The White ones for polishing. I use either a Black, Red or Gold pad for LSP and need just one of those.

You will love the Flex. That thing will keep on working. Just remember, let the product do the working for you. You do not need to apply too much pressure.

But you will need to get used to the walking (pulling or pushing away from you). DON'T WORRY! You will get used to it. Soon you can polish with 1 hand (if need be but most of the time 2 hands).

You will have fun and please let us know your experience with it soon along with Pics!

Sure will! I’ve an old car available to use as a template so I’ll practice with that, gonna do half the bonnet and snap a pic, will probably have to wait 2 weeks for the machine to arrive unfortunately but can’t wait. Thanks guys.

 

[VISITOR]

congrats on the new purchase, excellent polisher!

 

[JackvRS]

Sure will! I’ve an old car available to use as a template so I’ll practice with that, gonna do half the bonnet and snap a pic, will probably have to wait 2 weeks for the machine to arrive unfortunately but can’t wait. Thanks guys.

So ive got my Flex and did a bit of compounding with I believe a 3m compounding pad (mountains and valleys shape) all I could get from the local so I’m enquiring now what I need to order in terms of pads, compounds, Backing plates and polishes. I’d also like to know what’s the best was around polishing body lines as I know it’s not good polishing on them, and doing tight areas. I did the bonnet of a vw bora (Jetta) and it was brilliant very easy machine to use, although the odd score or slight scrape still left, probably due to the pad type as it’s not flat.

summarize:
1. What pads are ideal for polishing and compounding as I hope to do polishing by machine to avoid putting swirl marks back on the compounded paint by hand lol.

2. The best polishes and compounds to use for polishing and compounding. I use Autoglym HD wax as the sealant paste wax.

3. Techniques to polishing body lines and tight areas and suggestions of backing plates (smaller ones for my flex).is compound, polish and then wax the correct sequence ?

thanks everyone for the help the machine is a blast, removes scuffs and scores in seconds.
Ps. No pictures unfortunately I forgot lol.
Jack

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Get the Lake Country Hybrid Pads. I DO BELIEVE they were designed for the Flex 3401. But don't quote me on that. I use the Orange Pads for Correcting. I use the White Pads for Polishing. I have maybe 1 or 2 Red Pads for Last Step Product (ie wax or sealant). As for my Go-to Compound/Polish I like Menzerna FG400 for correcting and Menzerna Super Finish 3500/3800. This IMO is the best combo (FOR ME) and I have tried several different brands. As for the Backing Plates (I do believe Lake country); Flex makes Backing Plates for your DA. As for polishing around body lines, I am not too familiar with what you are trying to accomplish with that. The Flex will correct and polish anything you put it on. My GUESS is that the pads you are using are the thin type pads. The Hybrids are thick pads and they run better with the Flex than the thin pads.

As for tight areas I have a mini-DA (converted) to tackle that or in some cases use my hands with the pads.

As for the combo product you should use, that will be up to you. After several uses of different brands I have settled with the Menzerna Brand. The only problem with Menzerna products is that they change their name so many times you can get confused! Please let us know what you decided to go with and use!

 

[JackvRS]

Get the Lake Country Hybrid Pads. I DO BELIEVE they were designed for the Flex 3401. But don't quote me on that. I use the Orange Pads for Correcting. I use the White Pads for Polishing. I have maybe 1 or 2 Red Pads for Last Step Product (ie wax or sealant). As for my Go-to Compound/Polish I like Menzerna FG400 for correcting and Menzerna Super Finish 3500/3800. This IMO is the best combo (FOR ME) and I have tried several different brands. As for the Backing Plates (I do believe Lake country); Flex makes Backing Plates for your DA. As for polishing around body lines, I am not too familiar with what you are trying to accomplish with that. The Flex will correct and polish anything you put it on. My GUESS is that the pads you are using are the thin type pads. The Hybrids are thick pads and they run better with the Flex than the thin pads.

As for tight areas I have a mini-DA (converted) to tackle that or in some cases use my hands with the pads.

As for the combo product you should use, that will be up to you. After several uses of different brands I have settled with the Menzerna Brand. The only problem with Menzerna products is that they change their name so many times you can get confused! Please let us know what you decided to go with and use!

I've got some photos to show progress so far to see if I'm doing it right!
I'll upload separately

 

[JackvRS]

I've got some photos to show progress so far to see if I'm doing it right!
I'll upload separately

I don’t think there’s any haze and swirl marks seem to be all gone at first attempt.

 

[JackvRS]

I don’t think there’s any haze and swirl marks seem to be all gone at first attempt.

I also just wanted to ask the best way to A and B pillars, or door handles. Can the flex do damage if used on these areas or how can damage be caused using the flex in general to paint work ?
thanks!

 

[JackvRS]

I also just wanted to ask the best way to A and B pillars, or door handles. Can the flex do damage if used on these areas or how can damage be caused using the flex in general to paint work ?
thanks!

Again sorry for all the questions as it's always pays to exercise caution than pay for new resprays but if I get the flex 4.5inch backing plate is there any pads available for this plate in 4.5 to 5.0 inch as I can't find any on autogeek, maybe I'm not looking hard enough and as said above can damage or defects be caused using the flex incorrectly?
I hope to put an order today for the stuff I need.
Thanks for everyone's help couldn't have done anything without here, the detailing infrastructure where im from is really poor.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I also just wanted to ask the best way to A and B pillars, or door handles.

Can the flex do damage if used on these areas or how can damage be caused using the flex in general to paint work ?

thanks!

What I do is go up on edge, that means to hold the tool so that only a portion of the pad is in contact with the surface. You will feel the tool try to walk on you or move to a side, so just expect it and buff accordingly. I buff out 1" thin panels like this and if I can do it then others can do it to, it just takes some practice.

Again sorry for all the questions as it's always pays to exercise caution than pay for new resprays but if I get the flex 4.5inch backing plate is there any pads available for this plate in 4.5 to 5.0 inch as I can't find any on autogeek, maybe I'm not looking hard enough and as said above can damage or defects be caused using the flex incorrectly?

I just went out to the AG garage and grabbed the factory FLEX 4 3/8" backing plate and checked the Lake Country 5.5" Force Hybrid pads and they fit with the velcro backing with about 1/4" extra around the backing.


In most cases you can do everything with orange, white and black.

Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish 5 Inch Foam Pads


I would still recommend the 6.5" pads for the factory backing plate instead of the 3M Waffle pads


Lake Country Hybrid Power Finish Ultra Performance Pad System, buffing pads, foam pads, polishing pads

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Pics

Any pad with a 5" diameter velcro backing will work. My personal preference is for thick pads when using gear-driven tools although I'm finding thicker pads work better on the FLEX XFE 7 and I think this is due to inertia.






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