After the wet sanding.....

[86TonaZ]

I used some 3M buffing compound to remove the 2000 grit wet sanding on my black paint. It's color/clear.

I'm using the Porter Cable 7424XP. I started with the 3M compound wand yellow Lake Country pad then used Meguir's Ultimate compound with an orange pad.

I'm reading that I should have used Meguiar's 105 and yellow pad and then 205 and orange pad.

My question is this..... how much damage or trouble will I get into if I 'redo' the panel I've done? I don't plan to wet sand it any more overall. I 'may' touch up a few high spots. But the question is if I skip the 105 (other than the touch up areas) and simply use the 205 will it produce a less gray surface than the process I used above?

I realize that with the 205 or the step I took (the Ultimate compound) that there are still two steps before I'm done. The polish and then the wax. But I want black and not gray.

Any comments or suggestions?

 

[DLB]

There are a few different 3M compounds...which one exactly are you using?

In any case - the Ultimate Compound, the 3M that you were likely using, and the M105 are all in the same range as far as cut goes.

The 205 is a finishing polish and needs to follow any of the previous three mentioned. After the 205, you can use a fine finishing polish - but most of the time people don't find it necessary.

Redoing the panel will take off more clear for certain, so you need to be careful.

I will suggest, although a little late, that you do a test spot. Refine your process on a 16x16 area before you hit the whole panel. If you are going to try several different processes, I would use more than 1 test spot.

DLB

 

[86TonaZ]

The 3M cmpound I used was the Perfect it- III. It was some I had left over from when I buffed my other Daytona. Looking at it now I may have done more work than needed as the Perfect it - III may have been the product I used second. I have some other 3M compound but it's thin and it didn't cut as well as the Perfect it - III so I didn't use it.

So, at this point since the 3M has done its work and followed up with the Ultimate Compound (Meguiar's) would it be safe to then polish with the 205? I'm not considering any more material removal other than the necessary steps to complete the buffing process. Then the polish and then wax.

Is this a safe assumption?

 

[DLB]

I would *guess* that you are safe to use the M205, but this is largely dependent on if the Ultimate Compound (that was your last product used if I read correctly) has achieved all that it needed too. After the UC you should have a fairly clear working surface, no more heavy sanding marks.

DLB

 

[RaskyR1]

The 3M cmpound I used was the Perfect it- III. It was some I had left over from when I buffed my other Daytona. Looking at it now I may have done more work than needed as the Perfect it - III may have been the product I used second. I have some other 3M compound but it's thin and it didn't cut as well as the Perfect it - III so I didn't use it.

So, at this point since the 3M has done its work and followed up with the Ultimate Compound (Meguiar's) would it be safe to then polish with the 205? I'm not considering any more material removal other than the necessary steps to complete the buffing process. Then the polish and then wax.

Is this a safe assumption?

Any chance you can get a pic of the finish after the UC? It will really depend on how deep the marring was from the 3M and whether or not the UC was able to take it out or not.

Also, was it the extra cut compound or the regulars stuff? 3M has two perfect-it III compounds....

 

[86TonaZ]

Thank you both for the replies. There are no sanding marks at all and the finish is smooth with very little swirl. The issue I want to resolve is that the color is a little gray.

I'm assuming at this point that if I use some polish that it will seal the very tiny imperfections left and darken the color.

Here are some pictures of the work before this last buffing.

 

[RaskyR1]

M205 should work well then. rops:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

M205 should work well then. rops:

I agree.

Try a test spot with M205 and either a polishing pad or a finishing pad and then inspect.

Be sure to apply a wax or paint sealant also as M205 is water soluble.


Looks good! :xyxthumbs:


What size pads did you do your initial cut with?

 

[86TonaZ]

Thanks guys. I used the 6.5 inch pads from Lake Country. I got the Porter Cable 7424XP special bonus offer Autogeek had week before last. It came with some smaller red pads, Microfiber cloths and pad cleaner and conditioner. I got an orange, yellow, white, gray and blue pads with my kit.

So if I use the 205 at this point I can use the polishing or finishing pad for that then to apply the wax. I can either apply the wax by hand or use the gray or blue pad.

But, now for the rest of the question.

The part we know now is the hood. It's the largest flat area as the deck is a hatch with a piece of glass nearly as large as the hood.

I need to do the rest of the car. Should I use the product I still have available or abandon that for some 105? I will do the hood and the rest of the car with the 205 as the final compound step before the polish and wax.

Make sense?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Let me see if I can dissect your posts and give you some answers without causing too much confusion.

I used some 3M buffing compound to remove the 2000 grit wet sanding on my black paint. It's color/clear.

I'm using the Porter Cable 7424XP. I started with the 3M compound wand yellow Lake Country pad then used Meguiar's Ultimate compound with an orange pad.

I'm reading that I should have used Meguiar's 105 and yellow pad and then 205 and orange pad.

If you're able to remove sanding marks using an XP with 3M and a 6.5 Yellow Foam Cutting Pad then you probably ought to stick with that recipe, you could try the M105 with the yellow pad and see if it's any faster or if it yields better results and if it does then alter your recipe.

This is where you do your testing or your test spot. Dial in a system that works for you. The goal would be to find a single cutter that will remove all the sanding marks. With the XP or a polisher like the GG ROP, if you hold the pad flat on a flat surface it will rotate a 6.5 pad just like a rotary buffer even under pressure, it won't have the power of a rotary buffer but it comes close enough for people that either don't own a rotary buffer or are not ready to move up to a rotary buffer.

So try to do some testing with your most aggressive foam pad and see if you can remove the sanding marks with just one product, there's actually a way to test,

• Sand a section
• Test 3M and your yellow foam cutting pad for 8 passes back and forth to just one portion of the section.
• Now duplicate this to a section right next to the first test section only used M105

Now compare the two sections. You should still have sanding marks as the goal is not to remove all the sanding marks, (that would/should take more passes), the goal is to see which product is removing the most sanding marks under a controlled test.

Does that make sense? If not then call me as this is pretty hard to teach with a keyboard.

After you dial in your recipe for removing all the sanding marks all you should have to do is remove any haze or micro-marring and restore a clear, high gloss finish. M205 should do this with a polishing pad for sure, and maybe a finishing pad, again test.

You might find that it takes the polishing pad to remove the haze and if you're in love with your truck you might want to maximize the finish with a finishing pad and the M205

The key is testing till you find a recipe that makes you happy and gets the job done and then duplicate this over the entire finish.

So if I use the 205 at this point I can use the polishing or finishing pad for that then to apply the wax. I can either apply the wax by hand or use the gray or blue pad.

See above where I talked about testing a polishing pad first and checking the results and then test a finishing pad and checking the results, use whatever level of aggressiveness in your pad selection to get the job done.

But, now for the rest of the question.

The part we know now is the hood. It's the largest flat area as the deck is a hatch with a piece of glass nearly as large as the hood.

I need to do the rest of the car. Should I use the product I still have available or abandon that for some 105? I will do the hood and the rest of the car with the 205 as the final compound step before the polish and wax.

Make sense?

M105 is a compound, M205 is a cleaner/polish. So when you wrote,

Should I use the product I still have available or abandon that for some 105? I will do the hood and the rest of the car with the 205 as the final compound step before the polish and wax.

Did you mean to write? (not the red part)

Should I use the product I still have available or abandon that for some 105? I will do the hood and the rest of the car with the 105 as the final compound step before the polish and wax.

If you meant the second quote, then again, test till you can hopefully find out which compound is cutting the best and then you should be able to use just that one compound over the entire car to remove sanding marks. You may have to do each section multiple times however to get all the sanding marks out. If you run out of one compound you can always just start using the other compound. By the time you get done with the truck you should have a feel for which compound is cutting the fastest.

After all the compounding is over and all the sanding marks are removed, then re-polish the entire truck with the M205 and then go to wax or paint sealant.

 

[86TonaZ]

Thanks for the great information. I didn't quote your reply because of size but I will try to address each point in this reply.

I am able to remove the sanding marks with the 3M. I was using the Ultimate Compound from Meguiar's to remove the gray left over from the 'rocks in a bottle' 3M product. It worked OK but the surface is still a little gray. This is why I started this topic. I want to be sure that I get the true black back once the wet sanding and buffing process is done.

I will try the test like you describe as I need to do the entire car, now that the hood is done more or less. If I find that the 105 is easier I'll change to that.

When you asked if I meant 205 as my final compound step, yes I did. I didn't realize that the 205 is acutually a polishing product when I refered to it as a compound. I meant that I would use it as the final buffing step before the polish and then the wax. Now I will change that proceedure. I will either start with the 3M or 105 (depending on the results of my test) and then Ultimate Compound (if necessary) to bring the finish to the stage it is in the photos. Then I'll use the 205 to polish the clear coat, and finally finish it off with the wax.

Does this sound like I understand your meaning?

 

[87rx7chick]

im a little late to the thread, but, i had to re-do my sanding, i sanded with 1200 then buffed with a 3m compound and rotory buffer with wool then with foam.

realizing 1200 creats deep marks in the paint, texture. i had to buy 1500 and 2000 and go over the paint one more time and buff .

3m left holograms so i had to buff AGAIN... with 105

is your paint from factory? or is it after market color coat clear coat?


you have SOME give in an after market paint job depending on how much clear was applied. in my case 3 coats of clear was applied and i had ample clear to work with.

i hope i dont confuse you, i only read a bit of your first post and not much of the rest of the thread just letting you know i've been there done that and it just depends on how much clear you have!


edit: read your last post, sounds great. try it!!!

you dont need much product on the pad. make sure you watch the DA video how to. rub the product in with 3 and buff with 5-6 to work the product,

if i were you. after 205 and before a wax, you should try a cleaner, pinnical cleaning lotion, optimum poli-seal (great stuff) or poorboy's black hole, i could go on there are so many. personal preference is that i bought optimum poli-seal which is a cleaner wax type product. you can work it using a green LC pad!

 

[86TonaZ]

Thanks for the reply. I'll be able to work on this much more in a few weeks. Between now and then I plan to get some 105 and 205 and some polish then the wax. I think with these four steps the finish should turn out smooth and black.

The paint was applied about 7 months ago. There is more than enough clear on the rest of the car to insure a great result even if I do need to get agressive with the 2000.

The good news is that other than a few spots on the fenders the orange peel is very minimal. So with little effort I hope to get this car buffed before the beginning of the year.

 

[87rx7chick]

Thanks for the reply. I'll be able to work on this much more in a few weeks. Between now and then I plan to get some 105 and 205 and some polish then the wax. I think with these four steps the finish should turn out smooth and black.

The paint was applied about 7 months ago. There is more than enough clear on the rest of the car to insure a great result even if I do need to get agressive with the 2000.

The good news is that other than a few spots on the fenders the orange peel is very minimal. So with little effort I hope to get this car buffed before the beginning of the year.

you sound just like me. i spent about 3 weeks finishing the wet sanding and buffing

remember, if you wet sand make sure to buff the same day, if you let it sit to long the paint will be difficult to work with.

when wet sanding, its good to start with a soft 3m block, its a soft yet firm foam. use it to level out the paint. then with the next step sand paper use your hand. i used 1500 then 2000. it seemed to take a while with 2000 and the block, i removed the block and found it to go alot smoother, literally, doing it with a flat hand, its easy to have a "woops" when sanding causing a deeper scratch int he paint. i used the 2000 to make sure i got all the "woops" from the sanding block. using a 3m rubber squeegy makes easy work of seeing what your doing with the sand paper. slide the squeegy over the paint to reveal dry areas and see your actual sanding marks.

always have constant running water over your sanding area, i use a wet microfiber or sponge or even a hose with the metal part cut off . typically i use a bucket and sponge.

again with the squeegy, its your friend if you dont have one you should get one i promis it will make easy work of figuring if you have worked long enough in an area or not!

if you dont work the compound enough you could get that hazing. the gray your seeing. you may need to work on it a bit better, but at this point just do 205 and 105. follow the "how to" video and you'll do just fine!!!

 

[86TonaZ]

The three weeks is because I'm teaching from home this week online then I have to travel to Alaska to teach another class. Then on the 14th I will teach from home online for a three day class and that's it for the year. Then I can play with the car. I expect the sanding/buffing etc will actually only take me three or four days. That's assuming it doesn't rain.

I'll see if I can't locate some 105 and 205 locally otherwise I'll place the order with Autogeek for some additional 'stuff'. I'll look to see if by chance they will put a special together which includes most of the stuff I need then I'll just what isn't in the 'package'.

 

[87rx7chick]

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...car-detail-prep-what-buffer-2.html#post273977
105,205, and sometthingn like black hole, pinnical cleansing lotion, optimum poli-seal ect. and pick up a green LC buf pad (applies cleaner waxes and such)

you'll be set. just have to choose what glaze/finish is right for you to squeeze in after 205 and before wax!

also Meguiars NXT Generation Tech Wax is unlike any other car wax! Tech Wax, a synthetic, scientifically engineered paint sealant, is an alternative to i tried this stuff out on my daily driver, i love it as a non carnuba wax. deep luster and it hid some swirls on my daily driver. idk bout what others say but i dont mind a product that has fillers in it to help hide imperfections!
this stuff made my paint soo deep and rich and its as lustrous as a carnuba wax. but idk how it compares to the stuff on autogeek, since i havent tried everything yet.

 

[SRHTX]

Also Meguiars NXT Generation Tech Wax is unlike any other car wax! Tech Wax, a synthetic, scientifically engineered paint sealant, is an alternative to i tried this stuff out on my daily driver, i love it as a non carnuba wax. deep luster and it hid some swirls on my daily driver. idk bout what others say but i dont mind a product that has fillers in it to help hide imperfections!
this stuff made my paint soo deep and rich and its as lustrous as a carnuba wax. but idk how it compares to the stuff on autogeek, since i havent tried everything yet.

Uh, young lady, you know what I'm about to say. LOL Go see Anthony and talk to him about some other Optimum products. I had some in my car that I did not take out while we were working on your Mazda RX-7. Yes. The NXT does leave a nice shine, HOWEVER, for only one or two car washes. Optimum has very good products that will last far a few months. hint hint.......

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

When you asked if I meant 205 as my final compound step, yes I did. I didn't realize that the 205 is actually a polishing product when I referred to it as a compound.

I meant that I would use it as the final buffing step before the polish and then the wax.

Now I will change that procedure. I will either start with the 3M or 105 (depending on the results of my test) and then Ultimate Compound (if necessary) to bring the finish to the stage it is in the photos.

Then I'll use the 205 to polish the clear coat, and finally finish it off with the wax.

Does this sound like I understand your meaning?

Perfect.

It's my nature to focus on words and sometimes a single word.