Am I damaging my expensive waxes with ONR?

[nubaseal]

After going through a long phase of sealants and durable waxes, I am now enjoying show waxes at the moment (Bouncer's Capture the Rapture, Victoria's Red Concours Wax etc.). However, most people who are veterans with show waxes here and other forums recommend to use their respective QD after washing so that the look is not altered.

My problem is I wash every week with ONR as I have water restrictions. I can spend a huge amount of money to buy and use Victoria wax QD to maintain my Victoria Red wax after every ONR wash but would ONR have such a drastic effect on the waxes that it will permanently change the look of the wax?

I always thought the polymers in ONR are rather temporary and the original look of the LSP will be restored after a day or two on it's own.

 

[mwoolfso]

ONR on its own will not harm the LSP. However the wipe-off using MF towels will affect durability (over time) of any LSP.

 

[silverfox]

I'm sure Dr G would not put out a product that damages anything...let alone a precious show wax. If altering the appearance of the LSP is considering damaging it...then 95% of the stuff that people put over their LSPs with are indeed doing damage.

I do get your point...I have a factory option tinted clear coat paint job and after putting on CQUK coating last fall..I ended up polishing the stuff off because it darkened my color to the point where it took away the look I paid all that extra money for.

 

[mwoolfso]

Clarification - when I say ONR I mean Optimum No Rinse

I don't mean Optimum Car Wash
I don't mean Optimum No Rinse Wash & Wax (ONRWW)

In any event, their car wash product is benign and good. ONRWW would seem to be too much considering you have Victoria - so avoid that completely.

 

[FUNX650]

I always thought the polymers in ONR are rather temporary and the original look of the LSP will be restored after a day or two on it's own.

That restoration process would be quite welcome...
Is it possible, or not? Let's explore:

•What are ONR-(W&S) and ONR-(W&W) product descriptions?
Here's ONR-W&S. (For ONR-W&W...substitute "sleek & glossy finish" with: "adding great gloss and protection").

"This unique product contains substantive polymers which bond to the paint and protect it during the wash. Therefore, No Rinse™ Wash & Shine offers greater protection and lubricity than conventional car washes leaving a sleek & glossy finish behind afterwards. The waste water in the bucket can be used to water the lawn or disposed of into a sink, where it will be treated!"

"No Rinse™ Wash & Shine does not require rinsing since there are no soapy surfactants to wash off into the storm drains."

Breaking this product description down...
•ONRs' substantive polymers bond to the paint and protect it during the wash.
-What if the paint already has an LSP? Will ONR's polymers bond to LSPs---during the wash?
-What happens to ONR's polymers after the wash has been completed (the "temporary-ousness" you mention?)

•leaving a sleek & glossy finish behind afterwards/adding great gloss and protection
-Acts as a "topper"? { LOL}
-Messes with the LSP?

•there are no soapy surfactants
-Yes...Polymers can be made to be/act as surfactants.

Degradation of Polymers:
•Even though both ONRs have substantive polymers...they are polymers...and will degrade---over time---and by a process known as: abiotic hydrolysis:
Abiotic = not living
Hydrolysis = decomposition by reacting with water

-This means: Water starts breaking down larger polymers into smaller water-soluble monomers. The beauty/uniqueness of this hydraulic breaking down (degrading) processes of polymers is that all it takes is for them to be in presence of common, everyday soil minerals.

•If an LSP also has polymers:
-They will also degrade in the same fashion.
-Will the action of applying a product...noted to be "rinse less" (not without water though)...actually kick-start the polymer degradation of a "soiled LSP"? (Your "harming" concern?)
-OR:
Will the "rinseless' polymers" replace the LSPs' polymers until they, too, degrade to nothingness?

•Another aspect of "car-care polymers":
-Many, many, many are of the silicone-persuasion.
-Silicone polymers are made from Quartz (sand)
-When polymers have degraded, they return to being soil-silicates.
-Thus the cycle is completed: Ashes to ashes...Dust to dust!


•I'll close with this "rinseless" question:
"No Harm, No Foul"?


Bob

 

[nubaseal]

Mother of god. That's way too much information for my tiny brain Bob.
Polymers break down to become soil silicates? That sounds like they are best avoided.

Bob, can I ask you what wax or sealant do you use on your car? I am very interested in that product

 

[FUNX650]

Polymers break down to become soil silicates? That sounds like they are best avoided.

Hard to avoid polymers...They're everywhere!!
Shoot...Even the human body has (natural) polymers.
A reminder of what I posted earlier:

Thus the cycle is completed:
Ashes to ashes...Dust to dust!

Or should it be:
Soil-silicates to Soil-silicates...Dust to Dust!! {LOL}

Bob, can I ask you what wax or sealant do you use on your car? I am very interested in that product

•Thanks for asking!

•Over the years...(nevermind----that's not pertinent). Rather:
•I have now narrowed the Waxes/Sealants down to the following
{if I would leave any out---OK: They're out then!! }:

-Meguiar's: M26; M21 2.0; Ultimate Wax; NXT 2.0
-Wolfgang DGPS
-CMagic
-SON1C Carnaubavore
-Optimum Car Wax
-3M Show Car Wax
-The "Klasse Twins"
-Collinite #845

Dammit...that's too many:
Time to cull a few more!!


Bob

 

[allenk4]

onr on its own will not harm the lsp. However the wipe-off using mf towels will affect durability (over time) of any lsp.

bingo!

 

[Dr Oldz]

I know what you are getting at here. Even the QD from the same manufacturer will alter the look ever so slightly of the wax. So I wouldn't bother. Now rather than ONR, the Meg's Rinseless won't change the look of your current LSP. As far as QD,s.... Poorboys Spray and Wipe has nothing in it that will alter the look of a LSP.

 

[VP Mark]

ONR doesn't harm the durability of a wax or sealant but the polymers in it will sit on top of your LSP and alter the way it acts. Sometimes after a bunch of ONR washes you just need to do a good 2 bucket wash then voila! Beading has returned.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using AG Online

 

[Lowejackson]

Slightly off topic. It turns out you can spray indoor plants with ONR QD and not kill them. Not suggesting this should be tried by others but just in case anyone every wondered.....

 

[FUNX650]

Slightly off topic. It turns out you can spray indoor plants with ONR QD and not kill them. Not suggesting this should be tried by others but just in case anyone every wondered.....

Heard of spraying indoor plants with liquid dish soap/water mix...
But with ONR? That's one I've never heard before... :xyxthumbs:

So...ONR's polymers won't interfere with the chlorophyll/photosynthesis cycle...
Is this applicable only for Lotus plants?!?! {LOL}

Bob

 

[frankprozzoly]

ONR doesn't harm the durability of a wax or sealant but the polymers in it will sit on top of your LSP and alter the way it acts. Sometimes after a bunch of ONR washes you just need to do a good 2 bucket wash then voila! Beading has returned.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using AG Online

I was going to wash as much as possible with ONR . I didn't know that a 2 bucket wash should be done once in awhile. Good to know

 

[DetailedByPrecision]

ONR doesn't harm the durability of a wax or sealant but the polymers in it will sit on top of your LSP and alter the way it acts. Sometimes after a bunch of ONR washes you just need to do a good 2 bucket wash then voila! Beading has returned.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using AG Online

I agree with Mark. My car is sealed with Fuzion as a stand alone product. I used ONR twice and it definitely altered the beading pattern on my paint. Here are 2 pics for you to judge.

 

[EVOlved]

I agree with Mark. My car is sealed with Fuzion as a stand alone product. I used ONR twice and it definitely altered the beading pattern on my paint. Here are 2 pics for you to judge.

I'm guessing the first pic is the one after the ONR uses as the second picture has phenomenal beading.

 

[Lowejackson]

Heard of spraying indoor plants with liquid dish soap/water mix...
But with ONR? That's one I've never heard before... :xyxthumbs:

So...ONR's polymers won't interfere with the chlorophyll/photosynthesis cycle...
Is this applicable only for Lotus plants?!?! {LOL}

Bob

My wife went on holiday, amongst my many instructions was one which said I must water the house plants. By mistake I picked up the wrong bottle and sprayed QD strength ONR on all of them and poured the remaining liquid into some of the pots. Luckily for me, none of the plants seem to suffer in any visible way. Obviously this has nothing to do with wax but at least it seems to back up the claim than ONR will break down after using it

 

[aim4squirrels]

My wife went on holiday, amongst my many instructions was one which said I must water the house plants. By mistake I picked up the wrong bottle and sprayed QD strength ONR on all of them and poured the remaining liquid into some of the pots. Luckily for me, none of the plants seem to suffer in any visible way. Obviously this has nothing to do with wax but at least it seems to back up the claim than ONR will break down after using it

How clean are the leaves now, and how's the beading?

 

[Lowejackson]

How clean are the leaves now, and how's the beading?

All the plants are still looking good. Hope my wife does not read this as I forgot to tell her about this little adventure

 

[nubaseal]

What I don't understand is how does ONR not deteriorate the performance of Optimum Car Wax or Opti Seal but degrades something bullet proof like Collinite 845?

At the rate this discussion is going, it looks like if you must use ONR; stick to their waxes/sealants as they play well together. I find that rather disturbing as I'd like to continue using high end boutique waxes but I also continue to live with water restrictions.

 

[PiPUK]

I would pose this thought...

Dirty on a vehicle tends to be held in place by a film which comprises oily molecules which are picked up from any number of sources (exhaust fumes, for example). Now, ONR sells itself as being able to remove these easily, reliably and without rinsing. Got that. Now, what is in your wax, what makes it look good and what makes it last? So we have waxes, silicones, polymers etc. So what are these things loosely related to? Well, they are oil like (especially waxes, effectively they are oils but with longer carbon chains). So we have wax on the surface with a notably oil like character. We have a cleaner which apparently removes (unwanted) oily residues. To my mind, as with all cleaning solutions intended to remove oils, there is only one thing that is going to happen to the wax - it will be degraded. I have never seen anything to convince me that any product can genuinely be a superb cleaner of dirt and grime but have no effect on a fundamentally oily film on which that dirt and grime resides.

This is not to say that a product cannot put down something which protects and makes up for the damage it has done (in fact, again, I have yet to see a compelling argument for a truly safe 'low water' product that doesn't make use of something substantive and thus 'add' something to the finish).