Another thread about holograms...

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chuckk

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Hi guys,

So here it is, my first post ! And it's about holograms...like if any of you haven't seen one already ! Ok so Ive been using my dewalt rotary on a few cars already using a 3 step process to insure I don't end up with holograms.

Ive had great results using 3M ultrafina with the 3M blue waffle pad. (First spread the product and work it at 1400 RPM then finishing up at 1000 RPM with a quick water mist on the surface). Never felt the need to use a filler afterwards to hide any defects...

Last week ive decided to get the swirls out of my black 07 STI using Meguiars total swirl remover with a meguiar black pad. Finishing up with 3M ultrafina pair with the blue pad didn't get me the hologram free finish. I do have a Griot 3'' dual action buffer so I went ahead and try it with a polish pad with the ultrafina and Ive noticed that ''new'' holograms were getting into the clear coat...Like if the dual action was causing it's own holograms.

Ive decided to try a different panel on my car (door) ONLY with my Griot to see if I could get a perfect finish...To my big surprise using the dual action (always doing the 3 step process) would still get me holograms here and there. So I went ahead and used the #7 glaze with griot at speed 3 to see if it would hide the defects and guess what....nope they're still there.

At this point I don't know what to do and im pretty glad it's not a friend's car so I can find a solution...Here are some pictures of the holograms induced only by my small Griot 3''.

First picture is the car not in direct sunlight.

Thanks for your inputs and sorry for my long thread...
 
First thing I always ask people who end up with holograms is are you hurrying thru your passes? One if the biggest causes of holograms is your making passes too fast. You want to move slowly and let the machine do the work.
 
Hey thanks for replying, im pretty sure I was going slow between my passes. I honestly have no clue on how to correct the issue to be honest. Im thinking about getting a bigger DA with a 6'' pad so less pressure would be applied on the paint...but I feel ill just waste another 300 $ on a new machine...Would you recommend a 15 or 21 orbit for a bigger DA. If that could help solve the issue...
 
You could pick up a harbor frieght DA for about the price of a quart of ultrafina.

Ultrafina is very small abrasives, but still a diminishing abrasive and it is designed for rotary use.

You might try some meguiars ultimate polish. Relatively cheap and easy to find and a non-diminishing micro abrasive. Try it with your 3in griots and a finishing or waxing pad. Give it 2 slow (1" per second) passes with medium pressure and 2 slow passes with no pressure. That should remove the holograms in the first to passes, refine the finish in the second two and hopefully finish out perfect.
 
Technically the word holograms is specific to the scratch pattern inflicted into paint by the use of a rotary buffer.


Scratch patterns inflicted by dual action polishers tend to be called,

micro-marring, tick marks or DA haze

The above are different words for the same pattern of scratches.


See the pictures in this article. I also cover this topic in my how-to book.



The difference between Rotary Buffer Swirls, Cobweb Swirls, Micro-Marring, DA Haze & Tick Marks



And welcome to AGO!


:welcome:
 
So you're seeing a different pattern of marring from the DA machine, pad and product, right? They aren't the same holograms left by the rotary, right? Would you categorize your Subie paint to be soft or very soft?

I like Audios idea of maybe changing polish products and soften up the pad as much as possible on the DA. (although everything i've read about ultrafina is for refining exactly what you're trying to do). Spread the product and then work it with slow passes and gradually decreasing downward pressure to the point of almost zero pressure for your final pass or two.

I'm just thinking...this is super soft paint.
 
Are you saying you went over the whole panel with the GG3"?
 
Puckman said:
I'm just thinking...this is super soft paint.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking. I know ultrafina was the go-to for a LONG time, regardless of machine type. But, I think changing the abrasive type may be a better fit with the DA machine and super soft paint.
 
In waiting for chuckk to respond...

The way i read it was he rotaried first and got holograms then used his GG on the rotary hologrammed section in an effort to remove the holograms and got either some new marring or didn't remove the rotary holo's. Then he tried JUST the GG 3" machine on an untouched, new section and got the second pick just from the GG.

Sorry, chuckk, if that's not correct.

I'm also curious as to how or if you used anything other than a towel to wipe off your polishing residue.
 
Puckman said:
In waiting for chuckk to respond...

The way i read it was he rotaried first and got holograms then used his GG on the rotary hologrammed section in an effort to remove the holograms and got either some new marring or didn't remove the rotary holo's. Then he tried JUST the GG 3" machine on an untouched, new section and got the second pick just from the GG.

Sorry, chuckk, if that's not correct.

I'm also curious as to how or if you used anything other than a towel to wipe off your polishing residue.
Click to expand...

You understood me perfectly, it did remove the rotary holo's but it put new marring into the paint. The second picture is JUST the GG on a new panel. So the kind of marring you see is just from the GG.

Im stocked to read so many inputs, thanks a lot. Im using the cheapest microfiber towels that I found at the store but I always keep them clean (machine washed). Sometimes I really have to put some elbow grease to wipe off the left over stuff on the paint and maybe that doesn't help... do you guys use a mist of water to help clean the residue? I'll get my hands on some better towels for the future.

As for Mike, thanks for the link of that thread. I'll re-read it carefully. Ive watched your tutorials so many times they're so helpfull but I feel that the tick marks or the haze you're talking about are not the same ''defects'' thats on my door...
 
Just curious and basically i was hoping you were near me. We could make quick and immediate removal of that marring and look and talk about what your issue might be.

I have always been impressed by the willingness of Geeks over the years helping each other and am now hoping someone up there can take a look for you.
 
I would have love to do that ! This is what forums are for in my opinion.

Ill try a finishing polish more made for DA buffers and ill post pics as soon as i can.
Thanks
 
it's been raining all week! Still didn't get the chance to try the ultimate polish
 
Ok sorry guys for the delay, it's been raining all week and I didn't get the chance to try again.

Uber Blue Final Polish Foam pad
Ultimate polish
Griot 3'' speed at 4
Very very very slow overlapping passes.
Product was wiped off with brand new simoniz PLATINUM microfibers.

And it looks like there's still some holograms or some kind of marring...As of right now I don't know what I should do next...

What's the best filler wax I could put on top of it? Ive tried working a glaze at speed 3 but it didn't do anything...I can't really go slower than 3 because the pad won't rotate.
 
Ill try to polish it with water only just like Larry from AMMO did. I have read the other post on the page and i like the results.
 
Do you have access to a black finishing pad? I believe the blue uber pad still has a touch of cutting ability. A zero cut pad may help a little. Other options would be LC pads in red, blue and gold.

No clue on the quality of the simoniz towels. It may be worth wiping the polish off with a spritz of instant detailer or ONR. The extra lubrication can cut down on some scratches or marring that may look like holograms.

I've read that menzerna 4500 is good at finishing soft Subaru paint. You might be able to get a sample from someone here on the forum before buying a bottle.

If all else fails, poor boys blackhole and prima amigo are supposed to be amazing glazes.

Also, it may be worth while making a separate post for help in Quebec. I believe there should be a few members near there that may be able to help lend a hand.
 
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