Anybody else not strip wash?

conman1395

conman1395

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I gave up chemically stripping paint a while ago. I used Dawn once a couple years ago and never did because of the lack of lubrication. Never used it enough to notice trim fading. Chemical Guys citrus soaps never did much to strip either and now only use it occasionally. My shampoo is now always Duragloss 901 to be a safe, lubricated shampoo and then I "strip" when I clay. Anything I miss will be when I follow the claying with the DA.
Anyone else do the same??
 
I can see trying to strip your LSP if you are not going to polish and just want a fresh coat of wax/sealant. Using a paint cleaner IMO is a better way than depending on a soap to do this step. It's pretty much a waste of time trying to strip your present LSP if you are going to polish.
 
I believe it was swanic youth that did a couple torture tests of some popular sealants and found that there are very few chemicals that will strip a decent sealant.

I don't have a good excuse to be stripping an LSP intentionally unless it's for a coating or one of the few LSPs that don't like to be a topper (reload comes to mind). I normally just go through my process and if I happen to strip the LSP (based on mechanical abrasion), OK; if not, that's fine too. I'm still going to be adding a layer of protection at the end and I haven't see any ill effects from topping previous LSP with anything that I use as protection. Non-durable products that I would not want to top would be removed by basic processes I use (prefoam, clay, tar removers, etc.)

I do a strong wash/prefoam, as opposed to a strip wash, but the purpose of that is to start breaking down road film, bugs, and other contaminants before I touch the paint.
 
Well, my Meguiar's Hyper Wash added with a bit of CG Bug+Tar Wash strips many waxes from my experience.

I mean, customer's arrive with a car that has been 'wash and waxed' through it's life, has some beading when rinsing but after the wash step (foamed with the above mixture), the final rinse shows generally inexistent beading.

Not the best indicator, but it affects LSP for sure. May not remove it all, but cleaning paint is generally done 'by layers'.

I definitively won't rely ONLY on a washing step if I'm doing a full detail, further iron remover, tar remover, claying, compounding / polishing, cleansing polish / product, if LSP survives all this should be called MacGyver.

If you are using only wax, and some months later want to do a fast switch, maybe the Hyper Wash + CG Bug Tar wash would be your friend.

That said, not a rule, sometimes you can do a stripping wash, but will depend on too many variables.
 
Rsurfer said:
I can see trying to strip your LSP if you are not going to polish and just want a fresh coat of wax/sealant. Using a paint cleaner IMO is a better way than depending on a soap to do this step. It's pretty much a waste of time trying to strip your present LSP if you are going to polish.
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Yes, I also do that. The point still being a soap will not remove my LSP. (Unless maybe I used a 100% carnuba - which I never have)
 
I personally am not stripling my own car which has good coat of LSP on it, I'm stripping a neglected customers car of whatever bits of LSP may still have clung on. When a polish isn't going to follow.

Sent from my XT1030 using AG Online
 
I have never, ever performed/attempted any strip-washing.
However:
That's not to say that I haven't witnessed this event on many occasions where, according to the polls (sic), the affected parties' return on time/$-divested, was not worth the exertion.

Bob
 
IDK if id fully rely on clay to completely strip an LSP. Like others have said, paint cleaners are your best bet.

I do in fact use a stripping wash before using clay and a light polish. Just makes me feel better lol.
 
I have argued, for a long time, that these stripper wash products simply do not work. At best, they leave a film which makes you think that the LSP is gone and this is something that I have demonstrated (and which others have replicated).

In my experience developing products, almost no dilutable product (that includes the strong degreasers) will reliably remove a good LSP. I have long since given up on chemical stripping, even with strong mineral solvents, I have often failed to remove an existing LSP. The only way to do it is with a polish. As far as I am concerned, anyone selling an LSP stripper wash is either telling lies or doesn't know the first thing about the chemistry of what is going on.
 
PiPUK said:
I have argued, for a long time, that these stripper wash products simply do not work. At best, they leave a film which makes you think that the LSP is gone and this is something that I have demonstrated (and which others have replicated).

In my experience developing products, almost no dilutable product (that includes the strong degreasers) will reliably remove a good LSP. I have long since given up on chemical stripping, even with strong mineral solvents, I have often failed to remove an existing LSP. The only way to do it is with a polish. As far as I am concerned, anyone selling an LSP stripper wash is either telling lies or doesn't know the first thing about the chemistry of what is going on.
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Thanks for your insight.
 
PiPUK said:
I have argued, for a long time, that these stripper wash products simply do not work. At best, they leave a film which makes you think that the LSP is gone and this is something that I have demonstrated (and which others have replicated).

In my experience developing products, almost no dilutable product (that includes the strong degreasers) will reliably remove a good LSP. I have long since given up on chemical stripping, even with strong mineral solvents, I have often failed to remove an existing LSP. The only way to do it is with a polish. As far as I am concerned, anyone selling an LSP stripper wash is either telling lies or doesn't know the first thing about the chemistry of what is going on.
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When I scrub my wax applicator pad with de-greaser on a wash board, the excessive wax/sealant in the applicator gets thinner and thinner and gradually dissolve. I know dish washing detergent isnt effective as most of the LSP still firmly attached to the applicator but isnt a good degreaser strong enough?

I have tried Valugard ABC (at 1:8 ratio) and Autoglym powermax 3 (stated strong enough to remove copolymer coatings at 1:7 ratio) and both products seems to work. Not trying to doubt you as I have learnt much from all your posts and perhaps the LSP you developed is much durable than the rest?
 
dschia said:
When I scrub my wax applicator pad with de-greaser on a wash board, the excessive wax/sealant in the applicator gets thinner and thinner and gradually dissolve. I know dish washing detergent isnt effective as most of the LSP still firmly attached to the applicator but isnt a good degreaser strong enough?

I have tried Valugard ABC (at 1:8 ratio) and Autoglym powermax 3 (stated strong enough to remove copolymer coatings at 1:7 ratio) and both products seems to work. Not trying to doubt you as I have learnt much from all your posts and perhaps the LSP you developed is much durable than the rest?
Click to expand...

My concern is that the products will often seem to work, because they leave a film of surfactant which then makes the surface hydrophillic (i.e. no beading). I have repeatedly found that this style of product can be 'repaired' with hot water or even IPA wipe, such that beading miraculously returns.

Is it possible that my products are better? Of course! But, being realistic, they aren't THAT much better. Let me give you example of durability. I made a batch of Quick detailer yesterday. It left the insides of the mixing vessel very significantly hydrophobic - the water just ran off in beads, as with a freshly treated vehicle. Today, in that same vessel, after cleaning and such, I made a tar remover - a product that is packed with mineral spirits and xylene. After sitting in there for several hours and then more time whilst it was bottled out, the tank was then rinsed again. The hydrphobic character of the surface remained. This was a quick detailer and the 'treated' surface was immersed in strong organic solvents for several hours - but the 'protection' remained. So, unless my QD is massively better than what others sell as sealants, I just don't believe in chemical stripping.
 
I know if I am going to be polishing, I will use the harshest soap I can find because I try to minimize contamination the best I can at each stage before I go buffing. I like to think it helps my pad stay just a little bit cleaner.
 
dschia said:
When I scrub my wax applicator pad with de-greaser on a wash board, the excessive wax/sealant in the applicator gets thinner and thinner and gradually dissolve. I know dish washing detergent isnt effective as most of the LSP still firmly attached to the applicator but isnt a good degreaser strong enough?
QUOTE]

I would argue that if you apply the technique described above to your paint....you will definitely remove any LSP, regardless of whether you used degreaser Dawn or regular car wash soap
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Setec Astronomy said:
I guess this also begs the question of how you get sealants, spray waxes, QD's etc. out of your towels.
Click to expand...

The Hot Water and thorough Agitation variables are different between washing your car and machine washing your towels

The towels are scrubbing against each other for 30 minutes in Hot water with multiple rinses

If you used hot water and agitated/rubbed your car wash on each section for 30 minutes...you would remove almost any LSP
 
With my recent water testing, I prepped the surface of a car that had not been waxed for quite some time by claying the entire surface, then applied degreaser + citrus detergent followed by an IPA wipedown in order to have a non waxed control area down the middle of the hood. This left the entire hood very hydrophillic, no beading while flooding the panel, complete flat sheeting. I compared TW ICE Paste against Meguiars UPW. When it came time to remove them I tried IPA at 13%. Some beading remained compared to the original control section. I used straight IPA at 91% out of the bottle. Beading remained. Followed up with the citrus detergent and the degreaser, and although the surface tension and beading was significantly altered, compared to the original control section I was still not comfortable claiming the entirety of both waxes/sealants were removed.

So, for wax comparison testing purposes I will now always use a mechanical process in attempting to remove the previously applied wax or sealant. I skip a control section with no wax because a surface that is 100% hydrophillic doesn't mean that the panel is completely devoid of some product that can alter surface tension, versus a theoretically perfectly cleaned surface. So personally, based on my test I'm skeptical of any claim that IPA or certain chemical products are 100% effective in removing the bonding of sealants. If you're going to be polishing, using any chemical to specifically remove the wax is a waste in my opinion. And if you're not polishing and just want to try a new wax or sealant and want the old stuff off, again, I'm skeptical of how effective that process really is.
 
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