Beading is gone after one wash

jcedorjr

jcedorjr

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Good morning all, I was hoping I could get some help. I have a 2008 VW GLI with Deep Black Metallic Paint. I keep up on the car and do my best to keep the paint clean at all times and the car is garage kept and isn't driven much as I work from home. Just a few weeks ago I washed it using Turtle Wax Ice Car Wash, then (all steps by hand) used Blackfire Total Polish and Seal, a count of Blackfire All Paint Protection and after sitting over night, topped the sealant with Wolfgang Fuzion. The car looked awesome however after one wash, feels like it has no wax left. I've also used the Megiuar's waterless wash and wax to clean off the dust once.

A little history on how I've kept the car is that in the past, I've used the California Duster to clear light dust and then used a quick detailer to keep the car clean between washes since most of the time, it's an easy to maintain dust from the road. As I've read on the forum, that's not the best thing to do and I was finding myself correcting the paint likely more than I should so I've switched to the two bucket car wash method, no duster, no quick detail and tried the waterless wash instead however now my car isn't holding wax.

I've had problems in the past like this so wasn't sure if maybe the Fuzion didn't bond to the Blackfire or if that car wash is garbage and stripped my wax off for me.

Any thoughts?
 
This seems very strange but I suspect that there might be a problem with using products from so many companies and that they don't work together very well.

If you're determined to do the best for your car, I'd start over and do one of two things: First, you can strip the car down with Dawn and maybe spritz some isopropyl alcohol on the paint for good measure so that there is nothing on the paint at all. Then you can apply some Opti-Coat II on the car, 2 coats will provide excellent protection if you wait for the stuff to properly cure between coats. If I were starting off with a new car, this would be my approach. The reports found elsewhere on this forum indicate that people are getting excellent results and it is supposed to last for years. They also discuss their application techniques plus there are videos on YouTube.

A second option is to strip the car down and use a proven system. If the paint is in good condition, you can apply a product I'm familiar with called Hi-Temp HT-62 "Terminator" sealant. I've seen excellent durability from this product and it can be layered at 36 hour intervals. You can also add some wax like 3M's #39526 Perfect-It Show Car paste wax for some additional depth of shine if you like. This adds some protection to the sealant you have applied. This should also last years if your car is garaged most of the time as you've indicated. I used this system on my mother's car and it still beads very well after more than a year.
 
Thanks. I want to get to one product line for sure, just didn't have the money to get all products at once and my Dad splurged on the Fuzion wax so wanted to try it. I like everything I read about BlackFire so am trying to get to that line so might order the car wash soon and start over with the car wash and sealant route to see if that helps my cause at all. I appreciate the info though, very helpful for the product insight!
 
That's what I figured, but ran out of Mothers and was in pinch so picked it up. Time to shop I guess...

Could that have actually stripped my wax?
 
i'd like to say no, but depending on your amount and how bad the ice line is I can't say, I've used their f21 soap, junk
 
jcedorjr said:
Good morning all, I was hoping I could get some help. I have a 2008 VW GLI with Deep Black Metallic Paint. I keep up on the car and do my best to keep the paint clean at all times and the car is garage kept and isn't driven much as I work from home. Just a few weeks ago I washed it using Turtle Wax Ice Car Wash, then (all steps by hand) used Blackfire Total Polish and Seal, a count of Blackfire All Paint Protection and after sitting over night, topped the sealant with Wolfgang Fuzion. The car looked awesome however after one wash, feels like it has no wax left. I've also used the Megiuar's waterless wash and wax to clean off the dust once.

A little history on how I've kept the car is that in the past, I've used the California Duster to clear light dust and then used a quick detailer to keep the car clean between washes since most of the time, it's an easy to maintain dust from the road. As I've read on the forum, that's not the best thing to do and I was finding myself correcting the paint likely more than I should so I've switched to the two bucket car wash method, no duster, no quick detail and tried the waterless wash instead however now my car isn't holding wax.

I've had problems in the past like this so wasn't sure if maybe the Fuzion didn't bond to the Blackfire or if that car wash is garbage and stripped my wax off for me.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


Blackfire All Paint Protection, Blackfire Total Polish and Seal, top with Crystal Seal and then if you feel luck, top that with Mignight sun Wax. I did my wifes 08 Passat this weekend with this method and it looks better than it did new.
 
umi000 said:
Have you actually used the Turtle Wax Ice shampoo? It's a perfectly fine wash.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

I will admit that Turtle Wax (insert any OTC brand here) produces their fair share of duds, but they are getting better as a majority of their stuff is decent. Occasionally, they even produce something that can compete with the very best.

In my experience, TW Ice shampoo appears to have quite a bit of components that aid in rinsing - water tends to sheet off very quickly when rinsing. I believe it also leaves some gloss-enhancing "stuff" that sheets water away. This could be what you are seeing. Fuzion causes beads...washing with TW Ice will cause temporary short-term sheeting.

Dry your hood like normal and then spritz some water on top - does the water bead and run down quickly or does it sheet water quickly?
 
Well... some waxes just won't bead that nice.... I don't know about Fuzion but I used DP Max Wax to top my KHGSG (6 months old) and I couldn't see a thing beading the next day... I mean... one bead there another over there, but nothing too spectacular, but the looks.... man... this wax does looks incredible...
But now as my car wasn't washed in a month I can definitively tell the wax is still there, both by the looks (although dirty, it's a beautiful dirty "=] ) and because dust and birds droppings, water spots haven't touched the paint, it all swipes with touch.....

So in my opinion, the beading criteria, is not any accurate to tell if the protection is still there.....

If you want some insane beading (and dusting), buy a can of Collinite #885.... I doubt there will be a thing on the face of the earth that will bead more than #885 over a pre clayed surface.
 
Sorry I didn't read the thread. I had always had the same issue. I would go to Walmart and buy a gallon of Turtle Wax car wash and would always loose the beading after washing a freshly waxed car. I decided that it was in fact the soap that was stripping the wax. I have since switched to Meguiars Gold Class car wash (more expensive than the Turtle Wax) and the wax stripping is a thing of the past. Using Wolfgang paint sealant and the gold class soap has been the best decision that I have made for my cars

Don
 
There are a couple of reasons for this...

  1. If the surface wasn't prepped properly the primary layer of protection didn't bond properly so it and subsequent layers washed off..
  2. Depending on the amount of soap to water ratio you used it's possible the solution was strong enough to strip the protection.
 
SON1C said:
Have you actually read my reply?
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So you haven't used it, and you're calling it garbage? How about holding off judgment until you actually get a chance to try it out? Or even do a little reading on various forums - you'd find that the people who have used Turtle Wax Ice wash consider it one of the better OTC car washes out there. I don't understand the snobbery that people have against OTC products, nor the idea that one dud product means an entire line is "garbage".

Back on topic - to the OP, as mentioned, TW Ice wash is supposedly formulated to aid in rinsing by causing water to sheet. Did you notice the lack of beading during rinsing? As MCA said, might be worth testing beading once the car is dry.
 
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The posts have illustrated that when you put a protective layer on the paint water can sheet off or it can bead. I prefer sheeting because the water leaves the surface but the sealant I really like, Hi-Temp HT-62 beads water. OTOH, the 3M Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax tends to sheet off. The advantage here is that when water starts beading instead of sheeting off, I know it's time for more 3M wax to protect the sealant.

If you were looking for beading instead of sheeting, I can understand the confusion. When there's no protection on the paint, water does bead or sheet off, it remains there with a jagged edge to it.

UMI000: I admire your restraint.
 
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Well, the first time I washed it after the sealant/wax combo, the car felt way more slick then it ever has in the past so I was really impressed and it had a bead at that point, but since then the bead is minimal, if you'd consider it a bead and the paint has no slickness to it. Bobby suggested either prep or maybe too much wash and I prepped the paint well so would imagine the sealant and wax would have stuck so am wondering if I did use too much soap and over diluted the water.

I do appreciate all of the feedback. My plan is order the BlackFire car wash and get on point with one product line. Also, going to pick up a machine to give it a good and thorough cleaning and wax application rather than by hand. Leaning towards the Griots machine and planning on ordering Friday so maybe next weekend I can give it a go. I still have a few days of research before deciding between the Griots and the Porter Cable.

Thanks all! :xyxthumbs:
 
Pay particular attention to the curing time for the sealant. If you apply a wax over the sealant before it has stabilized, you'll reduce or remove the sealant. Most likely you will have to seal one day and wax another.

You say you're leaning toward the Griot's DA. I suggest the 3" model. The new version is quite powerful and it it will allow you to get into much tighter places than the 6" model. I use the 3" backing plate with 4" pads that are very nice because it substantially reduces the possibility of the backing plate contacting a part of the car in the tight areas like near the grill or near door handles and rear view mirrors. For the really small areas, I switch to the 3" in pads and for the tiny nooks and crannies, I use some cotton pads I get in the cosmetics section at the drug store.

Of course having two machines is the best situation. I use a Cyclo for cars with wide open areas and the Griot's 3" for small areas and cars that have a lot of boundaries.
 
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With the sealant I let the car sit over night in a garage before applying the wax so had ample time to cure. I did two coats of sealant on my wife's car and then applied Collinite 845 on top and am curious how that goes after I wash it once this rain stops. I was actually looking at the Polisher Club Kit which includes both the 3 and 6" machines but was originally looking at the 6" kit with extra pads. I'm starting to confuse myself with all of the options and was trying to stay under $250 on my order but not sure that's going to happen...
 
So I called Autogeek and spoke with Nick and after talking with him, have decided to go with the Porter Cable 7424XP machine due to the ease of usability, comfort, and overall results of the machine. Thanks for the help Nick!
 
BobbyG said:
There are a couple of reasons for this...

  1. If the surface wasn't prepped properly the primary layer of protection didn't bond properly so it and subsequent layers washed off..
  2. Depending on the amount of soap to water ratio you used it's possible the solution was strong enough to strip the protection.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure you nailed this one, bobby!
 
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