Best Product/Methodology To Remove Waxes & Sealants??

tenorplayer23

tenorplayer23

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Have done a search on this topic in different forums with varying results; some are a bit old and wanted to raise the question again in lieu of newer products & user opinions.

A question about the best way to remove old sealants/waxes prior to applying fresh coats (whether the car is being polished or not)................

What products (perhaps wash products) are best to remove old waxes & sealants?? I know that using polishes. claying, etc. will remove old layers. However, if the car was not being clayed, polished or otherwise corrected, what is the best way (or product) to accomplish this??

Some forum posts suggest using Dawn dish washing liquid as a car wash. Isopropyl alcohol/water solution is also recommended as wipe-on/wipe-off. I have seen a write-up on Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Clear being a good product at higher car wash concentrations to accomplish this. Griot's has also released something called Pre-Wax Cleaner (a clear liquid that has citrus and surfactant components....).

Also, is there any combination of "Optimum products" that will be able to do this (maybe a combination of OPC added to Optimum Car Wash?? Just a thought as I have a variety of Optimum products in stock).

What, in your opinion is the best product/methodology for removing old sealants & waxes so I can start with a fresh pallet (even if there is no corrective step)? Assume I will be using a combination of Opti-Seal and Opt. Car Wax once the paint is clean.

Appreciate the feedback.

Thx.

See ya.
wavey.gif
 
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Taking the word "best" at face value as you titled this thread...

How DO do you want to get?


I can get as DO as anyone and usually more so...


p.s.

We all know what AR means, I prefer to use DO

DO = Detail Oriented

:)
 
If you use a cleaner wax or buffing with a polish will remove LSP. If no
buffing is needed, then wipe down with Isopropyl alcohol will do. Also. claying will remove LSP's.
 
If you want the easiest way to remove LSP's than stick to the wash. It removes the extra step of using a paint cleaner or IPA/prep sol wipe down. For efficiency I think this is the best way to go about it. Either do a wash with CWC/CWG, dawn or regular shampoo with a few oz of APC.
 
As you`ve already mentioned dish washing liquid will do the job adequately:props:
 
There are many durable sealants out there that will resist dishwashing detergents/soaps. Citrus Wash & Gloss and Citrus Wash & Clear don't really get the job done for me, either (and I'm talking at the paintwork-cleansing dilution rates).

There are only two good ways that I know of to strip existing wax protection completely:
1.) Using a foam cannon and filling it with Optimum Power Clean and shooting it all over the car. Safe on all exterior surfaces and strips wax in a heartbeat.

2.) Alcohol wipe-down, treating it like a quick detailer after washing the vehicle.

A lot of people like to use P21S Total Auto Wash to strip wax but I'm not convinced that works very thoroughly. It takes a couple minutes for P21S TAW dwelling on the surface to break down the existing paint protection and the product leaves behind some light protection of its own.
 
polishes mechanically abrade the surface thus removing waxes and sealants. paint cleaners strip the surface chemically removing them and dedicated paint cleansers are just that, products specifically designed to remove waxes/sealants usually chemically also. No wrong choice , just different flavors for the end user.
 
Kind of thought someone would have wanted to know the D.O. approach?

The only thing I was going to point out is that there are some people that as a normal course of the way they approach detailing, they focus on always working forward in the process, not backward.

Working forward is when every step you do makes the paint look better and better, as in you're moving forward towards the goal of a flawless, show car finish. To do something to the paint that would dull it down would be working backwards, that is moving in the opposite direction of the goal. Some people can't imagine this, let alone do it.

In most cases, using a chemical, usually some time of solvent or soap, as a means of stripping paint to a fresh base tends to dull the paint down. You might get to a fresh base but you're working backwards.

Working forward would be using a a light cleaner/polish. A light cleaner/polish for example will remove whatever wax or paint sealant is on the surface but leave the paint clear, smooth and clean, ready for the next step. This is working forwards in the process.

Some will say that it doesn't matter if you dull the paint down if you're chemically stripping it because the future steps will restore or undo the dulling effect, (you could say, undo the damage), and they're right but it depends upon your point of view, thus in my original post I asked how AR do you guys want to get? The above is a skosh on the AR side.


:)
 
Mike..... I have some Dodo lime prime lite. Will this effectively remove a LSP... or would the regular "lime prime", which has light abrasives, be needed? I do not need to polish, just want to strip all old LSP off before trying something new.

From the description, I am thinking it would, but do not know if it is "enough" to remove some tougher LSP's/sealants.
 
acc1079 said:
From the description, I am thinking it would, but do not know if it is "enough" to remove some tougher LSP's/sealants.
Click to expand...

The layer of wax or paint sealant on the surface of your car's paint is pretty thin, my guess is it's measured in microns and as such, it doesn't take a very aggressive paint cleaner or cleaner/polish to remove whatever coating is still present.

Keep in mind that wax, or paint sealant wears off as a normal effect of wear-n-tear, (driving the car as daily driver and washing the car), and besides your choice of product, just the action of your hand pushing some kind of application material over the surface also has a cleaning effect.

So yes, the light the DoDo Juice, Lime Prime Light should be more than adequate to get you down to a clean base while leaving behind a clear, smooth surface.


:)
 
Roger... thought it would, but always nice to have a professional confirm.

Thanks Mike! :xyxthumbs:
 
acc1079 said:
Mike..... I have some Dodo lime prime lite. Will this effectively remove a LSP... or would the regular "lime prime", which has light abrasives, be needed? I do not need to polish, just want to strip all old LSP off before trying something new.

From the description, I am thinking it would, but do not know if it is "enough" to remove some tougher LSP's/sealants.
Click to expand...

Lime Prime Lite will definitely get rid of all existing paint protection.
 
Mike,

Thanks for the great advice but I have a follow up question. I think it is often said (and repeated) that if you use some type of harsh soap or solvent to strip a wax that you know you will be (in theory) starting with a clean slate, so to speak.

If I was to use your method and lets say I was to choose a product like M80 to remove any remaining product on my car, wouldn't M80 be leaving something behind which might cause adhesion problems with my LSP?

Or maybe it might be more accurate to say, if I used something like M80, would the polishing oils in the product mean that I don't have a "clean slate"?
 
Tesla said:
Mike,

Thanks for the great advice but I have a follow up question. I think it is often said (and repeated) that if you use some type of harsh soap or solvent to strip a wax that you know you will be (in theory) starting with a clean slate, so to speak.

If I was to use your method and lets say I was to choose a product like M80 to remove any remaining product on my car, wouldn't M80 be leaving something behind which might cause adhesion problems with my LSP?

Or maybe it might be more accurate to say, if I used something like M80, would the polishing oils in the product mean that I don't have a "clean slate"?
Click to expand...

The answer to that probably has more to do with what you're going to put on top of the paint after using M80

Just to note, when I referenced a light cleaner/polish it would have been lighter than M80 which I don't consider light as compared to a product like M09, which is very light.

Some synthetic sealants the manufacture recommends an absolutely sterile surface in order for 'their' blend of protection ingredients to best bond to the surface, so always follow the manufactures recommendations because they know their products best.

That said, I've never see a coat of wax or a layer of paint sealant slip off a car over night and pile up on the floor because there was a bonding issue.

I actually wrote all the label copy, including application directions, Tech Bulletins, Application Bulletins and Flow Charts for Meguiar's synthetic polymer Velocity Mold Release Line and while writing all the directions for this line I asked the head chemist a couple of questions about the bonding of ingredients to a surface polished with a product that used polishing oils for a lubricating base as was such in the Velocity Line.

You have to understand that proper adhesion of a mold release wax or polymer sealant is vital because of the risk of sticking a mold. Not so bad if you're making a sink but when you start making 75' Yachts, it's a real bad thing to stick a mold.

Anyway, back in 2002 when I was writing this the big rage was to get all the oils off the paint so the Z product would bond, with that in mind I asked the head chemist if it would be better to wipe a mold sanitary clean with a strong solvent like acetone, (which is as strong as I ever want to work with), to remove all the polishing oils after machine polishing a mold so the polymers in the MV-83 and MV-84 could better bond to the polyester resin mold surface or epoxy mold surface and he said very confidently 'no'. In fact it was better to apply these products onto the polished mold surface as it would act to create a sandwiched barrier coating, which is what they wanted.

2VelocitySystem.jpg


Now keep in mind, this is a case of synergistic chemical compatibility and it's possible because the chemist that made the polish is also the chemist that made the Sealer and Release, so he knows how to make them work together, as in bond over one another.

Here's the actual thread that addresses all this from the year 2005, although our conversation took place in 2002.

This is one of those discussions that never go away... :)


Do Glazes/Fillers affect the bonding of NXT?


Personally I think for the most part, the bonding topic is much to do about nothing. I've known people to apply Z over polished paint without chemically stripping it and say the saw no adverse effects. Still, always follow the manufactures directions.

After I invest time polishing paint I never work backwards, only forwards.

How's that?


:)
 
OK, so maybe the question(s) I needed to ask to begin with should have been:
Is it necessary to remove old sealants & waxes prior to resealing/re-waxing (if the car will not be corrected in any way, prior)? What, if any, problems in attempting to get a great finish will arise if not done prior?

>> Seems to be varying opinions here too, given the responses above. Yes, it sounds like a good idea; not necessarily required since there is experience putting new sealant on old without issue; why bother if you're doing correction (that was the point in the first place....what if you want new wax or sealant w/o correction); etc..
Secondarily, are there any products/methods that are "touted" as being sealant/wax removers, that you feel are unsafe (or perhaps, unwise) to use on automotive finishes?

>> FYI - Procter & Gamble's website for Dawn Dish Washing liquid (FAQ) says that it is NOT recommended for car washing. Since I worked in engineering & product development at P&G, albeit years ago, I'd take the formulation chemists at their word. Skip the Dawn. <<<

OK to use: commercial or professional automotive strippers, paint stripping washes (debate about effectiveness - Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Clear/Wash & Gloss, P21S Total Auto Wash........); add APC to wash step (like Optimum PC); light polishing step or paint cleaner (recommended products???) - GO Forward with your detailing.....don't regress & take a chance that a step dulls the cars finish, et.al..

Third, if you are going to use a simple one step process to remove old wax/sealants (assuming correction will not be done) when is the best point in the wash, dry, seal/wax, final buff/QD cycle to add a "cleansing" step......assuming again that it matters in achieving a stellar finish? What product/brand would you recommend for that particular step?

>> Opinions vary!!

This topic didn't sound that complicated originally, but????..........is there any value (or downside to starting off with a fresh finish to work with) AND, at what point (& with what specific product) would you do that "cleansing" (and most importantly "class, please support your work"....................remember that from high school math & science testing.......???? :):):))

Thx.

See ya.
wavey.gif


PS - I'm going to try a car wash that is said to remove wax/sealer (and assume it won't "hurt" if the product is theoretically built for that purpose) then proceed to using a sealant & wax combo....................and see what happens :dunno:. It's gotta be close! :D





tenorplayer23 said:
Have done a search on this topic in different forums with varying results; some are a bit old and wanted to raise the question again in lieu of newer products & user opinions.

A question about the best way to remove old sealants/waxes prior to applying fresh coats (whether the car is being polished or not)................

What products (perhaps wash products) are best to remove old waxes & sealants?? I know that using polishes. claying, etc. will remove old layers. However, if the car was not being clayed, polished or otherwise corrected, what is the best way (or product) to accomplish this??

Some forum posts suggest using Dawn dish washing liquid as a car wash. Isopropyl alcohol/water solution is also recommended as wipe-on/wipe-off. I have seen a write-up on Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Clear being a good product at higher car wash concentrations to accomplish this. Griot's has also released something called Pre-Wax Cleaner (a clear liquid that has citrus and surfactant components....).

Also, is there any combination of "Optimum products" that will be able to do this (maybe a combination of OPC added to Optimum Car Wash?? Just a thought as I have a variety of Optimum products in stock).

What, in your opinion is the best product/methodology for removing old sealants & waxes so I can start with a fresh pallet (even if there is no corrective step)? Assume I will be using a combination of Opti-Seal and Opt. Car Wax once the paint is clean.

Appreciate the feedback.

Thx.

See ya.
wavey.gif
Click to expand...
 
There's some good detailed information on here from several members, it'll be interesting to see where this goes ^__^

EDIT:
Just Read the stuff Mike wrote on MOL and that's really REALLY detailed, makes a very good read btw!
 
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Thanks Mike. Perfect response which makes a lot of sense.
 
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