Bird crap etching even after recent sealant and wax?!

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140BPM

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2009 Nissan 370z (yes, another thread about this dreadful paint)...

Brief overview: Full detail less than 2 months ago (clay, polish, black diamond paint sealant (2 coats for coverage), and menzerna color lock carnuba on top of that). Car has not seen rain since and is garage kept - only drive it 2-3 days a week.

Today I drove it to the office, and by lunch 4 hours later there were two massive bird craps on the roof and spoiler. Drove it home over my break to get it off and it had already etched the clear. Not excessively hot today either... about 75 outside. Tried to clay it quick but nope, its in there.

I would've expected this [expensive] sealant and additional wax to protect it for at least a few hours time. Can anyone explain this? Do I need to rework my procedure or switch to a different sealant?

BTW it was the real nasty purple/blackish bird crap :(
 
The act of bird-crap etching CC is dependent upon
several factors...including, but not limited to:
-species of bird
-type of food involved at its last feeding period
-ambient and vehicle temperatures
-etc.

We can probably correctly assume that bird crap
will etch CC that has no LSP(s)/protectants.

With that in mind:
I don't expect any LSP that has, at the most,
a few microns thickness...to totally stop bird
crap from etching CC...unless it is removed ASAP:
Especially when the weather is hot and sunny!


Bob
 
Just like what the smart guy said. I have seen bird stains left on cars for days and do nothing at all and there are some that were there for only minutes and severely etched the clear.

If you are looking for a product that MIGHT provide some protection against this you need to step up to a coating.
 
geekdout said:
Just like what the smart guy said. I have seen bird stains left on cars for days and do nothing at all and there are some that were there for only minutes and severely etched the clear.

If you are looking for a product that MIGHT provide some protection against this you need to step up to a coating.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. That's wild. That never happened on my Xterra.

Case in point, this guy left the bird poo on his truck for two weeks + in the beating Florida sun. Not to mention it hadn't been waxed in over 6-7 years!! When I washed and detailed it I figured for sure that it would have majorly etched the paint. One shot of FG400 and gone. I was surprised, I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it for myself.

Before:


After:




 
See, that looks like regular bird crappy to me custmsprty. I got unlucky with that nasty berry colored crap. I've had some luck getting the usual stuff off in time, but not today. It's surprising bc this cc is harder than most. Just hoping for some magic answer that probably doesn't exist....

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, now I know what you're referring to, it's nasty stuff. Like our love bugs down here. Even on my daily duirng the season I wipe them off every day, they will acid etch paint in no time and they dry like epoxy. I'm most likely going to get a clear bra on my Rogue's new front end before the fall blooming of the love bugs. No selant or coating will save you from them. I've often wondered if bird poop or love bugs can etch clear which is a paint, no way a coating would stop love bugs or bird poop from etching it if left on for a few days?
 
Man sorry to hear that! That must have been one helluva bird!! Usually, the sealant and wax will prevent etching. However, the bird spot must be addressed asap.

The reason why I say usually is because I was bird bombed and did not even know it for at least 2 days. I thought for sure my ride was going to be etched. To my surprise, none. I do sealant and then a wax like you do. I think my bird was a "typical" bird (crow, small bird, etc).

In your case; the only thing I can think of is, that bird was a big one and not your "typical" bird.

Additionally, I do not care what you have coating, sealant, wax or both will completely protect a car from certain bird bombs. IMO, you met a B-2 sized Bird Bomb and his crap was nuclear. The acid and other stuff would have eaten through the protection regardless. Based on you saying the poop was purple and black seemed like it was some serious crap (pun intended).

140BPM you got bombed with a nuclear bomb. In my case, I was bombed by just a regular bird bomb. That being said....I think even if you had a coating...it would have not mattered.

Again, IMO. Oh well bring out the compound/polish!!

BTW, my car was protected by Menzerna Powerlock as a sealant and then topped with Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax when my car was bombed.
 
Autoglym did a study about 5 years ago regarding bird poop etching. Their conclusion was that the etching is not a chemical process. They concluded that the etching happens when the crap lands on a hot sun heated panel. The sudden cooling under the bird crap causes the heated paint to mold to the texture of the bird crap as it cools down. That is why you can end up with bird crap etching that has peaks that are higher than the surrounding paint. So the most important factor is how hot the car panel was when it happened. This explains all your stories about why you had instances when no etching happened at all despite residing on the paint for a long time.

When you think about the etching process this way, it should be easier to understand that a sealant wouldn't be able to stop this since it a temperature fluctuation phenomenon.
 
Never happened on my xterra yet. But i have several coats of prima hydro max on.
 
DBAILEY said:
Autoglym did a study about 5 years ago regarding bird poop etching. Their conclusion was that the etching is not a chemical process. They concluded that the etching happens when the crap lands on a hot sun heated panel. The sudden cooling under the bird crap causes the heated paint to mold to the texture of the bird crap as it cools down. That is why you can end up with bird crap etching that has peaks that are higher than the surrounding paint. So the most important factor is how hot the car panel was when it happened. This explains all your stories about why you had instances when no etching happened at all despite residing on the paint for a long time.

When you think about the etching process this way, it should be easier to understand that a sealant wouldn't be able to stop this since it a temperature fluctuation phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Then wouldn't a sudden rain storm or washing the car in the heat cause the same issue? How many cars go thru car washes and don't come out etched? I respect research, but I also respectfully disagree with that finding.

Faulty or incomplete conclusion, IMO.
 
DBAILEY said:
Autoglym did a study about 5 years ago regarding bird poop etching. Their conclusion was that the etching is not a chemical process. They concluded that the etching happens when the crap lands on a hot sun heated panel. The sudden cooling under the bird crap causes the heated paint to mold to the texture of the bird crap as it cools down. That is why you can end up with bird crap etching that has peaks that are higher than the surrounding paint. So the most important factor is how hot the car panel was when it happened. This explains all your stories about why you had instances when no etching happened at all despite residing on the paint for a long time.

When you think about the etching process this way, it should be easier to understand that a sealant wouldn't be able to stop this since it a temperature fluctuation phenomenon.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this input. I do agree with this post. When my car had the bird bomb for 2 days the weather was actually cool and we have June Gloom in So Cal. No sun just grey clouds for about a week. I do agree if the hood or whatever is hot the reaction is more pronounced.

This is completely off topic, however, might make some sense to what happened. My co-worker had a rock chip in her windshield. I told her to open all the windows a little as the chip could spread under the heat and sun. She of course did not listen to me and lo-and-behold...her windshield had a line crack about 12 - 14 inches...she needs to replace the windshield. She could have had the windshield chip filled and repaired for $25.

But my point being...sun and heat can cause damage. Oh well, my 2 cents worth!!
 
Kamakaz1961 said:
Thank you for this input. I do agree with this post. When my car had the bird bomb for 2 days the weather was actually cool and we have June Gloom in So Cal. No sun just grey clouds for about a week. I do agree if the hood or whatever is hot the reaction is more pronounced.

This is completely off topic, however, might make some sense to what happened. My co-worker had a rock chip in her windshield. I told her to open all the windows a little as the chip could spread under the heat and sun. She of course did not listen to me and lo-and-behold...her windshield had a line crack about 12 - 14 inches...she needs to replace the windshield. She could have had the windshield chip filled and repaired for $25.

But my point being...sun and heat can cause damage. Oh well, my 2 cents worth!!
Click to expand...
I'd never even heard or thought about that before. Good to know!
 
@ 140BPM:

I'm shocked that you do not have a spray bottle of IPA or QD or WW plus 1-2 mf towels in your car for BB's. I got hit with some a few years ago but now I carry a small bottle of Ultima+ and/or QD. I cleanup as fast and best as I can then drive off home for a hosing or to a power wash facility. Can handle a few clearcoat scratches but not etching. I even carry a temperature laser meter (from APR-OCT) to read the panel temp, just for my own edification.

Is your paint cc or single-stage?
 
My 2 cents.
Why worry about bird bombs, love bugs, etc.
Have Dupont, PPG, etc formulate their clear coats to handle this. Problem solved.
No needs for sealants, etc. Resale value would increase.
 
MI Mike said:
My 2 cents.
Why worry about bird bombs, love bugs, etc.
Have Dupont, PPG, etc formulate their clear coats to handle this. Problem solved.
No needs for sealants, etc. Resale value would increase.
Click to expand...
Uric acid is able to even etch glass. I don't think it would be very cost effective to formulate paint that is able to withstand it. Keep in mind when clear coats first came out there were issues with it expanding and contracting with temperature differences and early clear coat failure.

It's not as simple as putting something down that is resistant to bird droppings, you also need something that can be used on the substrates which paint is applied to.
 
jmsc said:
@ 140BPM:

I'm shocked that you do not have a spray bottle of IPA or QD or WW plus 1-2 mf towels in your car for BB's. I got hit with some a few years ago but now I carry a small bottle of Ultima+ and/or QD. I cleanup as fast and best as I can then drive off home for a hosing or to a power wash facility. Can handle a few clearcoat scratches but not etching. I even carry a temperature laser meter (from APR-OCT) to read the panel temp, just for my own edification.

Is your paint cc or single-stage?
Click to expand...

I usually do carry all that around but took it out a few weeks ago while detailing the interior and forgot to put it back in. Besides, I doubt the 20 min delay in getting it off would've mattered... It was most likely there for hours already at that point. I was at work and don't have the luxury of parking directly outside my office window.

And it is factory paint, Nissan magnetic black.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
 
140BPM said:
Thanks for linking that Mike! Don't know how I missed it while searching earlier.

Good read.
Click to expand...


Thank you. Taping off and only buffing out one half of a black car was a real pain. Bringing the car back to Meguiar's and then buffing out the other side was also a real paint. I've probably done about a dozen of these types of demonstrations and they're always a lot of work. But when done correctly and in the right display environment they can really wow the crowd!

2600tapedoff1b.jpg


2600_bmwsidebyside2.jpg





:)
 
It sounds like you got hit by mulberry filled crap! That stuff etched my wrx paint quick. It was also waxed.

Most of the time white bird crap doesn't do squat even after being on the car for a while
 
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