Black Audi S4

[Billy Baldone]

Good morning. I believe this is my first ask Mike Phillips question. I have a black S4 on Wed, i need to 2 step the car, what will be the most efficient way to cut, and finish out properly? I have a Beast and Finisher, also Have Boss G15/G21/G9. Most compounds/polishes/pads are the most popular choices. The paint isn’t too terrible, just mostly swirly. Thank you in advance

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

When you say 2-step - is this one dedicated paint correction step and then 1 dedicated step to seal the surface?

 

[TTQ B4U]

Good morning. I believe this is my first ask Mike Phillips question. I have a black S4 on Wed, i need to 2 step the car, what will be the most efficient way to cut, and finish out properly? I have a Beast and Finisher, also Have Boss G15/G21/G9. Most compounds/polishes/pads are the most popular choices. The paint isn’t too terrible, just mostly swirly. Thank you in advance

I'm biased on this

CarPro ClearCut on a wool pad will correct it with the 3401 in very short order. Follow that up with CarPro Essence polish. You won't need but a few passes. I would then seal it up with CarPro Cquartz UK. There are of course lots of options that will work and yield similar results but that's the one I like and use. I do a LOT of German brands.

This was my APR Stage 3 S4:

 

[Billy Baldone]

Thank you gentlemen. Mike I mean a compound, then polish. It is getting a 1 year coating after those 2 steps

 

[Billy Baldone]

I'm biased on this

CarPro ClearCut on a wool pad will correct it with the 3401 in very short order. Follow that up with CarPro Essence polish. You won't need but a few passes. I would then seal it up with CarPro Cquartz UK. There are of course lots of options that will work and yield similar results but that's the one I like and use. I do a LOT of German brands.

This was my APR Stage 3 S4:

This is where I will begin my test spot. What pad/machine did you use to polish it? 3401?

 

[TTQ B4U]

This is where I will begin my test spot. What pad/machine did you use to polish it? 3401?

Flex 3401 with Wool initially then finished with an orange pad but also had the car for 3 years so at some point I did refine the polish with a white pad and Essence.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

First - freaking mirror finish on the black Audi - hats off to you. :bowdown:

I'm biased on this

GENERALLY SPEAKING - Audi is known for having very hard clearcoats.

Is this your experience with the S4 in the pictures?

 

[TTQ B4U]

First - freaking mirror finish on the black Audi - hats off to you. :bowdown:

Thank you sir.


GENERALLY SPEAKING - Audi is known for having very hard clearcoats.

Is this your experience with the S4 in the pictures?

Yes. VW/Audi has some pretty tough paint. I actually set expectation with customers that the amount of reduction in say a one step is far different on German vs Japanese, etc. My pricing is what it is but it centered around the amount of correction that a customer is looking to achieve. Thus if you own a German car and want 75%+ then you might want to go 2-step. If that makes sense.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Yes. VW/Audi has some pretty tough paint.

This is my experience too except there's always an exception to the rule.

For everyone reading this into the future that thinks all Audi paint is hard, click the link below and read about the exception to the rule AND this is why it's so important to do a TEST SPOT to every car you detail if you've never worked on that specific car in the past.

And just to note, the below article was written in 2011, that's 9 years ago and the actual work I did on the Audi's was done in 2006 while I was at Meguiar's.

Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness

I actually set expectation with customers that the amount of reduction in say a one step is far different on German vs Japanese, etc. My pricing is what it is but it centered around the amount of correction that a customer is looking to achieve. Thus if you own a German car and want 75%+ then you might want to go 2-step. If that makes sense.

Makes complete sense.

The most important thing any detailer can do is "help" their customer, not just the part about making their car shiny but educating them about their car's paint. We all have to remember, the average person knows NOTHING about detailing or their car's paint. They just know what they want. Anytime a professional detailer (like yourself), educates their customer it has the effect to bring their expectations into the real world. That has a cumulative effect for all of us.

:cheers:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Good morning. I believe this is my first ask Mike Phillips question. I have a black S4 on Wed, i need to 2 step the car,

Thank you for asking Billy, I truly appreciate you're wanting my opinion and below I'll share my best stab at a process.

what will be the most efficient way to cut, and finish out properly?

I have a Beast and Finisher, also Have Boss G15/G21/G9.

Most compounds/polishes/pads are the most popular choices.

The paint isn’t too terrible, just mostly swirly.

Thank you in advance

Paint Correction - Compounding


TOOL

In my opinion, out of the tools listed - the FASTEST way to correct each panel, no matter what the shape or curve would of course be the 8mm gear-driven orbital polisher the BEAST.


Pad

For a pad and compound recommendation - I know a FIBER pad of some sort will always correct or REMOVE paint faster than a foam pad. The problem with using some or most fiber pads on gear-driven tools is the pads tend to grab the paint and yank to tool around and this in turn yanks you around.

I would test out any of the fiber pads you have in your arsenal that have a foam intercore or interface between the face of the pad and the velcro backing. This little bit of foam helps to smooth out the felt buffing experience.

If you cannot find a fiber pads that feels good enough when buffing and specifically anytime you change planes, that is move the pad over one plane to a new/different plane on a body panel, to allow you to buff out the entire car, then switch over to the most aggressive foam pad you have and go with it. With a great compound and 10 to 15 pounds of downward pressure, the BEAST will cut hard paint.

Compound

No doubt you have some great choices in your collection, so I'd test anything you have that offers great cut plus long working time and low to no dusting. Especially if using a fiber pads. When using fiber pads, products don't seem to stay as liquid on the surface as long when using foam pads.



Paint Correction - Polishing


Tool

If you find the paint is hard as we all assume, then you can easily finish out with the BEAST. After a heavy paint correction step all you're going to need to do is remove any micro-marring left by a fiber pad or any pad haze left by a foam cutting pad. If you want something less wieldy to finish out with then I would probably go with the G9 or if you still have one a GG6 or even Porter Cable. Short stroke will get the job done and you'll experience less pad stalling with short stroke versus long stroke thus the polishing step should be faster overall.



Pad

Heck any brand of foam "polishing" pad should clean-up any haze or marring after a heavy compounding step when used with a quality polish.



Polish

Back to paint hardness, if in fact the paint is hard, then my experience tells me you'll want and need to use a medium cut polish in order to work with a foam "polishing" pad to abrade the hard paint an shmoo it over. You could test a fine cut polish also - go with what looks best with your Test Spot.


Please let me know what you test and what you finally choose to use.


Already looking forward to the "after" pictures.


:buffing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just to add....


Here's a recent example of a car I detailed that had in my opinion - very hard paint.


From April 8th, 2020

Review: 3D Paint Coating and 3D One Cutting Compound and Finishing Polish

Now follow me - this car only had LIGHT SWIRLS AND SCRATCHES. Let me this a more specific way - the swirls and scratches in the paint on the Corvette were SHALLOW. The word shallow is what is more accurately meant anytime someone says or writes a car has LIGHT swirls and scratches.

The word light is really not an accurate way to describe the depth of below surface paint defects.


Even though the swirls and scratches were SHALLOW - in order to get 99.9% paint correction - I had to CUT HARD with the BEAST and by this I mean I PUSHED DOWN ON THE TOOL HARD while running it on speed 6 for the compounding step.

AND - I changed my pads OFTEN. Wet pads don't cut. I didn't want to use fiber pads and they simply don't feel as good on the tools for this type of hard buffing and fiber pads CUT the paint, and this means they tend to leave their own scratch pattern called micro-marring.


Look how many pads I went through for what I call "Show Car Detailing".

But I produced the exact results I was aiming for and the customer wanted.

There's all types of ways to buff out a car no matter what the paint hardness or softness - it all starts with doing a proper Test Spot and then adjusting to your tastes to get the job done.

 

[TTQ B4U]

Nice job on the Vette! I agree with your pad count too. I tend to change out pads every panel and lots of times I use more than one pad per panel. Hoods and roofs of course use multiple but even doors I will often change them up very often. It's easier on the pads too.

I had a fellow detailer stop by last week and he made a comment that I had TONS of pads and I laughed. One can never have too many.