Black residue after buffing. Why ????

Red Lehr

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I was polishing my friends 67 Mustang that was repainted by Macco some 25 years ago. The car has been sitting for 10 years inside,but we washed it thoroughly before buffing. I started buffing and when I finished my pad was solid black. I could see the black residue coming off as I buffed.After 3 rounds of buffing (using Menzerna 400) I took a towel and put some compound on by hand,rubbed it in and still came up with black residue on the towel. The color of the car is Burnt Amber(one of the original colors.)

What could the black residue be ???? Dirt, lead from the paint ?
There is no clear on the car,so it is all paint.
Thanks in advance !!
Red
 
What color is the mustang?
Possibly single stage paint?
It could also be from the rubber trim pieces
 
What color is the mustang?
Possibly single stage paint?
It could also be from the rubber trim pieces


Umm.... Always read....


The color of the car is Burnt Amber(one of the original colors.)
There is no clear on the car,so it is all paint.
I started buffing and when I finished my pad was solid black. I could see the black residue coming off as I buffed.After 3 rounds of buffing (using Menzerna 400) I took a towel and put some compound on by hand,rubbed it in and still came up with black residue on the towel.


Unfortunately I don't really know much about buffing Single Stage, or even straight paint...
 
Could it be oxidized aluminum flake in the paint?

That sounds like it could be the problem but the OP didn't say whether it's metallic. See: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...w-car-finish-antique-single-stage-paints.html in the section right below the first 2 yellow car pics,

and also here: Protecting single stage red on a newer car... [Archive] - Bimmerforums - The Ultimate BMW Forum
Quote: "If you polish an older metallic single stage paint, the buffing pad will turn black because you're actually buffing the metallic flake along with the paint."

I think today they use plastics rather than metal (or they do for "metal flake"; not positive if that's the case for metallics too). But it's also under the clearcoat.

I guess it could be worse...they could have used iron-containing metals for the metallic ;o)
 
It's got to be the metal flake in the paint doing the black residue. YES ,there is metal flake in the paint !! LOL....

Thanks guys, you answered the question !!
 
After 3 rounds of buffing (using Menzerna 400) I took a towel and put some compound on by hand,rubbed it in and still came up with black residue on the towel.

The color of the car is Burnt Amber (one of the original colors.)

What could the black residue be ????

There is no clear on the car,so it is all paint.


As someone posted, I cover this in my article here,


The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints



Single Stage Metallic Paint = Difficult to Restore
Single stage, non-metallic paints like the above paint on the Ranchero are actually very easy to fix because the problem is for the most part just topical, that is the problem is just on the surface. All you have to do is remove the dead paint off the surface and if there's enough paint left then it's just a matter of polishing what's left to a high gloss. The most difficult paints to restore are single stage metallic paints.

The reason single stage metallic paints are the most difficult to restore is because not only does the paint itself oxidize, that is the resin used as the binder, (generally some type of seed oil like Flaxseed oil or Cottonseed oil), but also the aluminum flakes embodied inside the paint oxidize. This is where the problem lies.

It's a problem because the entire exterior surface of each individual aluminum flake oxidizes over time but you and I can only work on the surface of the paint and thus we can only work on the portion of the flake that is exposed at the surface level. Any portion of each aluminum flake that is below the surface and is surrounded by paint cannot be cleaned or polished so there's no way to remove the oxidation on the portions of the flakes inside the paint.

Oxidized Aluminum Turns Black
With metallic single stage paints, oxidation can show up as a darkening effect on medium to light colored paints because the aluminum metal flakes embodied inside the paint will stain or discolor the paint with a grayish black color.


If you’ve ever polished uncoated aluminum then you’ve seen this grayish black color coming off the aluminum and onto your polishing cloth as you work a metal polish over it. This same type of oxidation is taking place to the aluminum flake inside the paint.

Polishing Uncoated Aluminum
NonAbrasiveMethod058.jpg


NonAbrasiveMethod059.jpg



Oxidized Aluminum Comes Off Black
NonAbrasiveMethod060.jpg

Wolfgang MetallWerk™ Aluminum Polishing System


In the same way you see the black residue coming off the aluminum wheel onto the piece of white cotton terry cloth material above, when working on metallic single stage paints you will see black residue coming off the paint and onto you applicator pads, buffing pads and wiping towels.


This darkening effect can take place even at the same time the surface of the paint itself is turning chalky white. This is because you have two different substances oxidizing, both the paint and the aluminum flake, which both are oxidizing at the same time. The paint oxidizes white and the aluminum flake oxidizes black.


Then further down the article you'll see this to tie together with the pictures I posted above...




After approximately 12 hours of soaking in #7 Show Car Glaze, we're ready to wipe off the first application off this 37-year old paint.

NonAbrasiveMethod017.jpg




Look at the paint surrounding the towel...
In the picture below, note how after just one well-worked application of #7 the finish is now more smooth and clear and the color is more vibrant and even.

NonAbrasiveMethod018.jpg



Look at the color of the residue coming off the paint and onto the white terry cloth towel; it's black. The single stage paint is butterscotch gold.

Question: Where's the blackness coming from?
Answer: The aluminum flake.


One of the benefits that we enjoy when car manufacturers switched over to basecoat/clearcoat paint technology is there's a clear layer of paint covering over the color coat of paint and this seals the paint and keeps it from oxidizing and deteriorating. This enables metallic finishes to last for a long time without oxidizing and this is why you no longer see any black residue coming off modern metallic finishes.




Back in the old days the flake was aluminum. Today it's a type of plastic or mylar, thus no metal oxidation problems.

Of course, this is one of the early reasons there was a switch to basecoat/clearcoat, by sealing a single stage aluminum flake basecoat you could prevent metal oxidation.


:)
 
Thanks everyone,that answers my question !! The paint on this Mustang is ROUGH, but we are going to get it to look as good as possible.
 
i am not sure i understand how a glaze can help restore paint...
 
Thanks everyone,that answers my question !! The paint on this Mustang is ROUGH, but we are going to get it to look as good as possible.


Here's is just another success story to add to the growing list of people that have restored single stage paint using my method...


1967 Chevy Camaro - Restoration Detail - Original Paint




Best pictures are on pages 4 and 5 but the entire thread is educational for anyone attempting this type of work.



:dblthumb2:
 
i am not sure i understand how a glaze can help restore paint...


We're not talking about just any glaze, we're talking about a glaze that has been around since car paint was invented.


Also, lots of products have the word glaze on them when in fact they are either abrasive polishes or protective waxes and/or synthetic paint sealants.

There's now "Word Police" in the car wax world so companies throw words around pretty loosely and this leaves everyone confused.

I define the word glaze in its historical context, the correct context in my how-to book. The link is in my Sig line.

Also, read these...


The Secret to Removing Oxidation and Restoring a Show Car Finish to Antique Single Stage Paints


and this one from my article list, also in my Sig line...

Words mean things... just ask any Lawyer...

Word Definitions - Compounds, Polishes, Glazes, Paint Cleaners and Waxes





:)
 
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