Black (Soft,Soft) Paint

[IID]

Hey Guy's,
I'm trying to correct a 02' Camaro SS and this black paint is VERY stubborn!
In the light of my halogen's the finish is like a mirror BUT when I put the Brinkman Xenon to it ,there are still swirls/fine scratches :wow:

I have tried these Menz/Pads:
Power Finish (White,Grey Flat LC's)
Super Finish (White,Grey Flat LC's)
PO85RD (White,Grey LC's)
OPT Hyper Polish (White,Grey Kompressor's)=This definetly was NOT the answer
These combo's were attempted with both the Flex3401&Flex PE14-150-2.With the 3401 on settings from 5-3 and also the PE14-150-2 settings 3.5-2

Just looking at the paint will induce swirls!!

I have never ever had a paint this soft.I can't even wipe off the polish without inducing swirls.
BTW,I do have some 205 I could try but would think that has more cut than the PO85RD?

Can someone (Please) make some suggestion's with paint that is this soft?

Thanks,
If anyone has the right combo,i'll take care of ya.One hand washes the other

Chris

 

[Jeff120]

Im assuming you removed the heavy swirls, but can finish down swirl/mar free?

OPT finish polish may be what you are looking for.

 

[IID]

Im assuming you removed the heavy swirls, but can't finish down swirl/mar free?

That is correct.
I do have some Adam's Fine Machine Polish?

 

[jpegs13]

Power Finish with LC Orange, finish it down with PO85RD with Grey pad. This is the combo I use on My Caddy (GM paint, has to be similar)

 

[IID]

Power Finish with LC Orange, finish it down with PO85RD with Grey pad. This is the combo I use on My Caddy (GM paint, has to be similar)

I think the orange will not finish down LSP ready for me.
I am at the finish stage and ALL the heavy swirls are gone,just can't get the finish perfect.
With the Halogen's,the finish is like a mirror.It's when I put the Brinkman on it

 

[Porsche Pilot]

I feel your pain with soft paint. My car just scratched by reading your post. I was just in the garage today correcting AGAIN after Detail Fest. I use a Flex 3401 with a white LC pad with Wolfgang Finishing Glaze. Nothing else has worked for me. 205 is great but not for my car. Typically I have always induced marring with the wipedown. I re-read a Mike Phillips post recently about the "final wipe". This has helped me tremendously in the post polish marring issue.

I use a CG Sasquatch MF (folded four ways) to wipe down after polishing. Wipe down is a bad term. I use the MF to kiss the surface with no pressure. I let the fibers just glide over the surface very lightly and slowly. It takes forever but you gotta do what you gotta do. This car is getting CQuartz soon and hopefully this will solve some of my issue.

This is my own vehicle of course and a customers car may vary for ya.
Just my .02 as I know how miserable and aggravating it can be.

 

[Superdutytd]

That is correct.
I do have some Adam's Fine Machine Polish?

I would try that on a gray pad if you've got one.

 

[TLMitchell]

I drove myself nuts with miserably soft Vivid Black paint on my Harley. 205 wouldn't finish no-way, no how. Tried this, that and the other and was ready to tear my hair out. When I finally got a super finish I left swirls wiping off the residue with the softest, plushest MF I have.

I ran across an article on MOL by Nick Chapman where he had similar problems with a Black Colorado. Tried everything. Then he decided to try some things that you'd never expect to and shouldn't work. He ended up getting a flawless, mirror finish using yellow LC with 205. Go figure. The pictures are worth searching for the article.

So I started thinking outside the box. I tried finishing polish with cutting pads and heavy compounds with finishing pads. Both goofy combos worked pretty well. But I still had the problem of imparting swirls removing residue.

I ended up achieving acceptable results by finishing with LC orange and 85RD and spritzing the residue liberally with FK425 and wiping with a Cobra WW. Still some minor, minor marring under the Brinkmann but not visible in direct sunlight. No matter, you walk by it you impart swirls. A no-win situation.

I'd suggest doing the best you can do and don't let it drive you crazy. Throw away the Brinkmann for this job. As Mike Phillips says, it can be a "cruel master" if you let it. Some paint just isn't made to be flawless.

TL

 

[bill57]

TLM - You finished with the orange. Did you try finishing with the white pad, and it didn't work as well for you as the orange?

 

[IID]

I feel your pain with soft paint. My car just scratched by reading your post. I was just in the garage today correcting AGAIN after Detail Fest. I use a Flex 3401 with a white LC pad with Wolfgang Finishing Glaze. Nothing else has worked for me. 205 is great but not for my car. Typically I have always induced marring with the wipedown. I re-read a Mike Phillips post recently about the "final wipe". This has helped me tremendously in the post polish marring issue.

I use a CG Sasquatch MF (folded four ways) to wipe down after polishing. Wipe down is a bad term. I use the MF to kiss the surface with no pressure. I let the fibers just glide over the surface very lightly and slowly. It takes forever but you gotta do what you gotta do. This car is getting CQuartz soon and hopefully this will solve some of my issue.

This is my own vehicle of course and a customers car may vary for ya.
Just my .02 as I know how miserable and aggravating it can be.

I will try a white/Grey pad and the WFG tomorrow,Thank you Porsche Pilot for the opinion.
BTW,The customer is paying for a CQ application as well.

I would try that on a gray pad if you've got one.

I will try the Grey pad and the Adam's FMP tomorrow if the WFG does not work,Thank you Superduty for the response.

I drove myself nuts with miserably soft Vivid Black paint on my Harley. 205 wouldn't finish no-way, no how. Tried this, that and the other and was ready to tear my hair out. When I finally got a super finish I left swirls wiping off the residue with the softest, plushest MF I have.

I ran across an article on MOL by Nick Chapman where he had similar problems with a Black Colorado. Tried everything. Then he decided to try some things that you'd never expect to and shouldn't work. He ended up getting a flawless, mirror finish using yellow LC with 205. Go figure. The pictures are worth searching for the article.

So I started thinking outside the box. I tried finishing polish with cutting pads and heavy compounds with finishing pads. Both goofy combos worked pretty well. But I still had the problem of imparting swirls removing residue.

I ended up achieving acceptable results by finishing with LC orange and 85RD and spritzing the residue liberally with FK425 and wiping with a Cobra WW. Still some minor, minor marring under the Brinkmann but not visible in direct sunlight. No matter, you walk by it you impart swirls. A no-win situation.

I'd suggest doing the best you can do and don't let it drive you crazy. Throw away the Brinkmann for this job. As Mike Phillips says, it can be a "cruel master" if you let it. Some paint just isn't made to be flawless.

TL

I hear ya on the Brinkman.
It's just that I like the personal gratification on doing a Impressive job for my customers as well he is paying for a job well done.

Maybe I'll pull it in the sun after each section corrected and see how that goes.
Thanks for the input TL

 

[Lasthope05]

What speed is 2-3.5 on the flex rotary? For jeweling/final finishing I always work and around 1400rpms for the first 2 passes and then drop it all they way down to 1000 rpm for the rest and have very slow arm movements (less than an inch a second.) Give that a try with the black/85rd again. Maybe even try experimenting with dropping it down even lower to 800.

As always with soft paint, check and make sure your towels arent adding to the marring either. Use a super plush buffing towel.

 

[TLMitchell]

TLM - You finished with the orange. Did you try finishing with the white pad, and it didn't work as well for you as the orange?

Before I started with outside-the-box experimentation I tried everything. Like I sez, finishing polish with a cutting pad or a stout compound with a finishing pad worked best. M105 with a red LC left the best finish, however, I was imparting more marring than I just removed trying to wipe off the stout 105 residue. 85rd worked until it almost disappears with the orange left a comparable finish but allowed me to wipe whatever was left with liberal FK425 and the WW. Plush MF... Cobra 600, Pakshak, Ubers.... you name it... left marks, WW didn't. Who'da thunk it? Softer pads with 85rd and it just didn't finish well, lots of micromarring.

TL

 

[Dr Oldz]

This may sound a bit weird and I have never personally tried this method but I think that sharing this may be worth a shot! A local body shop guy with 40+ years of experience told me about this altho I have never found a need to try it! He claims that when trying to put a show car finish on ultra soft paint that a polish is not needed for the last polishing step.......A rotary on the slowest setting with a soft finishing pad and clay lube is what he uses! Like I said, I have never tried this myself, but I consider his advise golden. So maybe it is worth a test spot??????

 

[05xrunner]

man that sounds like the factory paint on my mustang..I have actually seen my paint scratch my just running my fingers over it. Granted i dont have the smoothest hands..But still. It is soo soft. In the sun the paint looks perfect the way i have it now but if I bust out the 1million candle power spotlight I bought and shine on the paint you can see very faint swirls..I gave up because I just figure if it looks perfect in the sun I am done..No one other then me is going to look at it under 1million power spotlight. I was driving myself mad. I shoulda never bought that spotlight

 

[TLMitchell]

...I bust out the 1million candle power spotlight I bought and shine on the paint you can see very faint swirls..I gave up because I just figure if it looks perfect in the sun I am done..No one other then me is going to look at it under 1million power spotlight. I was driving myself mad. I shoulda never bought that spotlight

Probably ought to stay away from malls and parking lots then. The mercury vapor lights in the lot at work are where I check my results. They show every wisp of a booger. I keep a vial of 105, Opti Seal and some pads and MF in the vehicle for spot jobs I may have missed.

TL

 

[05xrunner]

I dont take it to malls..LOL I actually dont ever really park it anywhere but when i go to car shows..I mainly just cruise around then come home and back in the garage. It doesnt go out at night to often either.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

With the Halogen's,the finish is like a mirror.It's when I put the Brinkmann on it

I read this and thought about how the Brinkmann has the nickname Cruel Master

I'd suggest doing the best you can do and don't let it drive you crazy. Throw away the Brinkmann for this job. As Mike Phillips says, it can be a "cruel master" if you let it. Some paint just isn't made to be flawless.

TL

Yeah you beat me to it...


Some paints are really hard to finish down perfect after chemically stripping and inspecting with high intensity lights. Then if you can get the paint perfect, the wipe-off mars the paint too...

For paints like this finishing out with a good cleaner/wax that uses diminishing abrasives has worked for me in the past and "yes" you are in part removing defects and in part filling or masking the last remaining fine defects with the wax and other protection ingredients that are depositing themselves onto the paint. This approach won't work if you're going to apply a coating like CQuartz.

I'd try a soft foam finishing pad with the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze or Menzerna PO85RD on a DA Polisher on the 5.0 Speed Setting with a fast arm speed, then wipe off very very gently.

If that doesn't work then heck yeah, think outside the box and try Nick's approach.

I buffed out a 1997 Camaro with factory paint a few years ago and the paint on it was as hard as nails. I think I finished out with M09 with a finishing pad on a PC. The car had hand painted pinstripes that were soft which made the car a challenge to buff out.

Keep us posted an what you find to eventually work the best...


:xyxthumbs:

 

[rfinkle2]

Try this if you have a chance.

Take a microfiber bonnet or trap a piece of microfiber in between the pad and the paint.

Mist the towel / bonnet with water and hit it with that superfinish or 85rd.

Works like a charm.

 

[VIP Reflections]

i never thought of GM paint as being soft? dont feel bad though, the wind blows and my black infiniti gets scratched. infiniti/nissan paint up until 2007 is way too soft. 3M fineness it II finishing material(white pad) followed by 3M perfect it II glaze(Dark)(gray pad) is what eventually worked for me. took me to long to get it right though haha

oh ya i also started using quick detailer on the MF and the paint when wiping of product/dust.

 

[IID]

This may sound a bit weird and I have never personally tried this method but I think that sharing this may be worth a shot! A local body shop guy with 40+ years of experience told me about this altho I have never found a need to try it! He claims that when trying to put a show car finish on ultra soft paint that a polish is not needed for the last polishing step.......A rotary on the slowest setting with a soft finishing pad and clay lube is what he uses! Like I said, I have never tried this myself, but I consider his advise golden. So maybe it is worth a test spot??????

I will be giving this a try tomorrow,Thanks.

I'd try a soft foam finishing pad with the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze or Menzerna PO85RD on a DA Polisher on the 5.0 Speed Setting with a fast arm speed, then wipe off very very gently.

Keep us posted an what you find to eventually work the best...


:xyxthumbs:

Mike,Thank You for answering any of my thread's (First time you have)rops:.I tried your recommondation and I thought it worked BUT when I wiped off the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze-there was marring

Try this if you have a chance.

Take a microfiber bonnet or trap a piece of microfiber in between the pad and the paint.

Mist the towel / bonnet with water and hit it with that superfinish or 85rd.

Works like a charm.

I tried this as well,with NO luck.The bonnet left marring.I used Detail Spray instead of water.
Thanks for the mention thou.

Here are All the products and pads I have tried (minus the bonnets in the wash machine):

I even tried the Adam's Fine Machine Polish and a Adam's White finishing flex pad with NO sucess.Heck,I even tried a blue/red pad with PO85RD and am not getting that to finish down!!

I've tried almost everything in my inventory except the mention of a compound and a soft pad or a cutting pad and a finishing polish.
I'm just not comfortable with CQuartzing over these micro marrings and light swirls.


I ordered some GTechniq P2 (Halogram removing polish),thats ment for difficult paint and also
I'm going to order some OPT Finish polish and try that if need be if the P2 don't work.

This is loosing it's fun ,but will keep on keeping on.