Boat detailing information needed.

[Mark Haushalter]

Boat detailing information needed.



Mike Phillips I have been compounding and detailing this boat for the last 5 years. Its a 2008 Regal 5260.

I have been using some 3m products. During its time in the boat yard when its out of the water the side hulls get compound and detailed. The Port side of the boat takes a lot of sun during the day. After about 4 weeks leaving the yard the Port side "Sun Side" the oxidation starts to come back.

We have salt water in are area so after the boat returns form a trip the boat is fogged with a water cannon and fresh water washed down.

The picture shows the boat the day it was returned to the water. The detail starts with 3M super duty compound. Then medium duty,then light duty,then Finess it glaze and finished with 2 good coats of collinte 845 wax.

I use wool pads with a Dewalt variable speed rotary buffer. What i am looking for is the gloss to stay on the port side longer with out the oxidation coming back so soon.

My concern is that i may compound the gel coat to far and remove it.

That did happen to the first boat owner and the top black panels had to be painted with Awl grip marine paint.

The rest of the boat stays pretty good all year with only washing it down.


Thanks for help

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for joining the forum and asking your boat detailing questions.

I've been in the garage shooting a video

LIVE BROADCAST - Detailing Tips & Techniques with Mike Phillips and Yancy Martinez -Tuesday, May 19th at 3:00pm Eastern Time


and just now found you post and alas - it's time to call it a day.

I'll be shooting video first thing tomorrow morning but after that I'll do my best to help you.

The short answer to your question is you're going to want to re-compound the foggy, dull side, then machine polish only use an orbital for this step and the install a ceramic coating.

After that cross your fingers. As you know - the SUN is a formidable and relentlessness enemy

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Also - I'm basically going to share the system I use and have shared in these thread in just the last 2-3 weeks.

Read through these. If you only read one thread, read the first one from start to finish.

Help! My first detail project, and its a 26ft boat!

Polishing gelcoat makes it go dull - what am I doing wrong?

Gelcoat Polish Question - Removed swirls but also deep gloss? - Pics

Random Orbital OK on boat gel coat?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's a boat from one of my past classes.



Ceramic Coated Gel-coat after 8 months on the water!


Here's one of the boats we used for the January Boat Detailing Class this year This is a 24' Edgewater and it's always kept on the water right where you see it BEFORE my class did an full correction and ceramic coating to it.


Training Boats for the February 2019 Boat Detailing Class at Autogeek in Stuart Florida

Here's the Test Spot and the results - class took place Saturday, February 9th and Sunday February 10th, 2019.

Pictures & Comments 2019 Boat Detailing Class at Autogeek with Mike Phillips

Before each class starts, I first do a Test Spot to each boat to make sure,

A: The boat can be restored. Pretty easy to see I bring in really bad boats and it's possible for the pigmented gel-coat to be so bad it is past the point of no return - so I test.

B: To dial in a process that works 100% to create a showroom new finish. Then the class simply duplicates this process to the rest of the boat.


So here's my Test Spot for the 24' Edge Water

And here's the results from the Test Spot

The ghosting is gone and the results are a rich blue color as good as and in my opinion better than when it left the factory. I say this because most boat manufacturers finish out their boats with wool pads on rotary buffers.



And here's the FINAL RESULTS from the class!

Most boats I've seen and worked on have holograms from the factory. The finish on this Edgewater is hologram-free! For this reason it's in better condition now than most factory boats.


NOW LOOK BELOW TO SEE HOW IT LOOKS TODAY - 8 MONTHS LATER AFTER ALWAYS BEING ON THE WATER.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Here's 8 months later....


Continued....


Here's how she looks today. As I type, it's September 19th, 2019, a little over 8 months later. The owner had it out of the water and brought it by Autogeek just to show me how the ceramic coating is holding up.

As you can see by the pictures, it was cloudy outside and the hull ANGLES away from the top cap, this made it challenging to capture pictures that show the boat as well as when the boat is in the garage, but I think anyone with two eyeballs can see the gel-coat hull LOOKS GREAT!

And in case you're NOT a boater and don't know what these results mean after being exposed to DIRECT FLORIDA SUN and river water - this is amazing. Normally, after about 3-4 months if using a traditional boat wax or even boat sealant, the hull would have oxidized and turn back to the chalky white appearance you see in the first pictures.



Thanks Brian for bringing your boat by Autogeek so I could share the current condition with our forum. The most COMMON QUESTION I get about ceramic coating gel-coat boats is,


How long will the results last?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just like all things detailing related - the key to the results are in the prep work.


The results shared with the Edgewater are impressive. The 8 month later shots would have been better if I would have had the owner stick the boat back into the garage and take the pictures with it in there but at the time - I was taking off to shoot new segments with Dennis Gage for My Classic Car - I just didn't have the time.

For your boat, you're in a tough situation simply because of how strong the UV rays coming from the sun are. I'm afraid there is not GREAT answer and from my experience, the MOST you can do besides storing the boat under-cover, would be to re-polish or re-compound and then re-polish, chemically strip and apply a gel-coat ceramic coating.


I don't believe in using a rotary for any last step process - it's real basic as to why - it leaves holograms in the surface. The holograms are actually scratches and the scratches increase the total surface area. This leads to accelerated oxidation. So you're fighting yourself for your intended goal. Purchase any good brand of random orbital polisher and use it AFTER any correction work with the rotary and it will remove the hologram scratches by leveling the surface. Then strip and coat.


When you switch to the orbital polisher - get the RUPES coarse, blue foam pads and use these with the Marine 31 Captain's Compound. I know 100% for sure this abrasive technology works every time.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

More....


Anyone can do what I do, that is, get the skills and knowledge to follow their passion and then "do something with it".

I am the only "instructor" in the car and boat detailing industry that both teaches boat (and car) detailing classes and this is key - and also documents it. I know other guys teach classes but where's their write-ups OVER TIME?

Here's mine, and I'm going to updated it and add even more photo-documentation.


Boat Detailing Training - Before & After Pictures - The MOST DOCUMENTED HANDS-ON Boat Detailing Classes - Autogeek - Stuart, Florida


Each of the boats shown in the above link have their own write-up with more before, during and after pictures.


Here's the thing that ties into you and everyone that comes to this forum asking me to help them get their boat right. I recommend the same things I use myself and teach in my classes. You don't have to do all these steps, for example some people don't want to or don't need to do the machine sanding step. I show it because I bring in the WORST condition boats I can find SO I CAN show it. My theory is - SHOW EVERYTHING and let each person take from the process just what they need for their particular project.

1. Machine sand with Mirka Abralon.
2. Cut out scratches with rotary buffer, twisted wool pad and Captain's Compound.
3. Machine polish with orbital polisher (I show gear-drive as it has the most power), with RUPES coarse blue pads and Captain's Compound.
4. Chemically strip.
5. Apply marine ceramic coating.
6. Stick a fork in it and call it done.

Outside of storing under cover, re-gel-coating or re-painting, the above is the MOST you can do and that's what's available to us earthlings at this point in time.

 

[Mark Haushalter]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for joining the forum and asking your boat detailing questions.

I've been in the garage shooting a video

LIVE BROADCAST - Detailing Tips & Techniques with Mike Phillips and Yancy Martinez -Tuesday, May 19th at 3:00pm Eastern Time


and just now found you post and alas - it's time to call it a day.

I'll be shooting video first thing tomorrow morning but after that I'll do my best to help you.

The short answer to your question is you're going to want to re-compound the foggy, dull side, then machine polish only use an orbital for this step and the install a ceramic coating.

After that cross your fingers. As you know - the SUN is a formidable and relentlessness enemy

Thanks for your information and help . What type of pads should i use on the orbital. What type of orbital do you recommend. What type of ceramic coating do you recommend ? There is a lot of hull sides on this 52 foot boat. I am open to using compounds,waxes, sealers etc. that you recommend. I am looking to do the best i can do for my customer. There are times during the summer that i have to wait till the evening to wash the port side hull. The side hull get so hot that the water steams off the hull side. Is there any way to measure the amount gel coat on the side hull ?
Thank you very much for your help

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Thanks for your information and help .

What type of pads should i use on the orbital.
What type of orbital do you recommend.
What type of ceramic coating do you recommend?

Pads - RUPES Coarse Blue Foam Pads for POLISHING after compounding.

Which SIZE you get depends on what tool you buy. If you get the FLEX 3401 aka the BEAST then you get the 7" pads as the BEAST comes wit a 6" backing plate.


6 inch RUPES blue foam pads

7 inch RUPES blue foam pads



Compound? Hands-down - the Captain's Compound

I write more about abrasive technology than anyone in this industry, I feel comfortable saying, I know what I'm talking about.

Marine 31 Captain’s One-Step Compound & Polish - 32 ounce bottle - $60.00


Coating

At this time I recommend the GYEON Q2 Marine Gel-Coat Coating

GYEON Q2R GelCoat

GYEON Q2M Prep - 1 Liter <-- You'll need this too



Orbital Polisher

As for an orbital, if if you want to work as fast as humanly possible and maintain pro grade results - then get the BEAST and never look back. I use to teach a class at Mobile Tech Expo called,

How to turn the FLEX 3401 into a money making machine

You never see them for sale "used" for a reason. And the few times I have seen someone sell their 3401? Within a few months you see them buying another one and regretting having sold the first one.

The FLEX 3401 aka The BEAST - with the 25' heavy gauge power cord pre-wired into the tool


If you can't swing the BEAST then get the Porter Cable 7424XP. You'll MUST also purchase a 5" backing plate for it and then get the 6" RUPES blue pads.


Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

5" Dual-Action Hook & Loop Flexible Backing Plate

There is a lot of hull sides on this 52 foot boat. I am open to using compounds,waxes, sealers etc. that you recommend. I am looking to do the best i can do for my customer. There are times during the summer that i have to wait till the evening to wash the port side hull. The side hull get so hot that the water steams off the hull side.

I get it - boats are huge and a lot of hard work. If you're going to carve this niche out for business you need to get your prices UP THERE in the CLOUDS.

Is there any way to measure the amount gel coat on the side hull ?

Not that I know of. Find a chip in the gel-coat and look to see if it looks thick or thin. Always use the least aggressive process to get the job done.

Thank you very much for your help

I expect that we will be far enough through the current Chinese Coronavirus and able to hold our ONCE A YEAR boat detailing class. It's (now read carefully), ALWAYS IN FEBRUARY. Mark that in you calendar. Budget to travel to Stuart, Florida NOW.

Info on this year's class

https://www.autogeek.net/mike-phillips-boat-class.html



Take this class and I promise to completely flatten out the learning curve. You cannot find a negative comment about my boat classes anywhere on Planet Earth except - they will make you tired as they is ZERO sitting - they are 100% hands-on, on-your-feet, working on REAL boats.

There are no other classes like mine and if there ever are in the future it will be because someone copies my format.


Have to go - I've given you plenty of info and links to MORE INFO that if you'll take the time to read it you'll learn plenty.


Best wishes my friend....

:cheers:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

More....


As the saying goes,

A picture tells a thousand words....


If I had to buff out a NEGLECTED boat and get it to my standards, (otherwise I wouldn't take the job), assuming the oxidation is deep, then below is what I would pile up in my truck to take to the job site and get it done right the first time.

And as I cover in my boat detailing classes, you don't have to sand... instead you can simply PUSH HARD on a rotary buffer for HOURS on a surface that typically ANGLES away from you. What I do and what I teach is to work smarter instead of harder.

Yes, this is a worn-out cliche except I actually show how to put this old cliche into practical use. Instead of pushing on a rotary for hours, hold any orbital polisher LIGHTLY against the hull and machine sand off the deep, dead oxidized gel-coat. Both approaches work but sanding is easier on you and all other factors considered creates better results that last longer.


Both of these tools can be used to machine sand and polish. With the BEAST you can use the factory 6" backing plate for both sanding and polishing. With the Porter Cable you'll want to sand with a 6" backing plate and polish with a 5" backing plate.

You can also hand sand and this means getting into areas you cannot reach by machine.

This is a Nanoskin Hand Backing Pad. It has a velcro hand strap on one side.

Velcro HOOKS on the other side.

Attache an 6" interface pad onto the hand backing pad and then attach the Mirka Abralon sanding disc to the interface pad. Get some clean soapy water and you're ready to sand-off oxidized gel-coat.

After sanding, OR if you skip sanding and just want to compound, then you'll need a rotary buffer, a wool pad, a great compound and a pad cleaning spur. After compounding with the rotary, you use the BEAST to remove the holograms and put a show car finish on a boat. You can use the BEAST with the 7" RUPES Course Blue Foam Cutting pads - YES for POLISHING - gel-coat don't like soft mushy pads.

And you're going to need a LOT Of pads. When any brand or type of foam cutting or foam polishing pad becomes wet, saturated and soggy with the product you're using it STOPS WORKING. You're WASTING TIME and TORTURING YOUR PADS. Take wet pads of and put on a clean, dry pad and you're back to working EFFICIENTLY.

The BEAST is almost $500.00 with the optional 25' 12 gauge cord pre-wired in. You can get the normal FLEX just be sure to use a 12 gauge heavy duty cord. Don't use no cheapie 14 o1 16 gauge cord it will burn up the motor. If you cannot afford the BEAST then get the trusty Porter Cable. It's not the most powerful 8mm simple free spinning random orbital polisher on the market but it is a WORKHORSE. And while some EXPERTS might say it doesn't have the power they are simply wrong. with a BOAT HULL the sides are FLAT. Slap a 6" RUPES blue course foam cutting pad on a 5" backing plate and as long as YOU hold the body of the tool in such a way as to keep the PAD FLAT TO THE SURFACE the pad will spin like a top with no pad stalling. And again - with the Porter Cable you can both sand and polish. And it's lightweight and compact in size. Try to find someone that has worn one of these suckers out?

No matter what tool you go with - you're going to need a LOT of pad. Soggy pads won't cut or polish gel-coat.

Use the GYEON Prep to chemically strip the gel-coat and then install, (apply), the GYEON Gel-coat Coating.

While everything is important - like I teach - the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR when it comes to polishing anything is the ABRASIVE TECHNOLOGY.

I know a some people will dis what I'm saying and use any old compound. Then they'll come back here and describe their problems. No one describes problems after using this compound and my photo-documented boat detailing classes always show the same thing over and over again no matter what the brand of the boat hull and that is show car results on a boat. The first time - every time.



:buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: