2black1s
New member
- Jan 23, 2015
- 1,783
- 1
A week or so ago I had the pleasure of reading Mike's book, "The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine". I wrote a review, sent it to Mike, and thought I'd share my review with the forum. So here you go...
Hi Mike,
Here’s my review after reading your book, “The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine” preceded with a little preface on my background so you know where I’m coming from.
First and foremost, great book and thank you for sending it.
My Background
My background (as related to detailing) started years ago (late 1960s) in the autobody industry. I think I was around 15 years old when I painted my first car in my Dad’s garage. An early car that comes to mind is a 1966 or 1967 (?) Buick Riviera. That is my first recollection of using a rotary buffer to remove 600G scratches from an Acrylic Lacquer finish using DuPont Machine Polishing Compound. You could feel the grit in that stuff between your fingers. And then the dusting… Whenever I read about dusting today, my thoughts are “If you only knew”. Times sure have changed.
Anyways, through the years I gained experience and improved my skills, both in painting and also polishing, which I really consider as one. They are individual tasks, each required in the execution of the overall process.
I did plenty of specialty, award winning work. Early on there were a lot of Cadillacs, Corvettes, and custom motorcycles. I prided myself in turning out the best possible work and always aimed for each job to be an improvement over the last one. My business’ motto was “We Strive for Perfection”.
The work I did required the highest level of polishing achievable. One can always debate which steps in the process are the most important, but to me, they’re all critical and important in the overall product and final polishing is no exception.
Later, around 1980 or so, I got out of the full-time painting business but continued to do classic restorations out of my home garage, as a nearly full-time side gig, for several more years until the early 2000s.
Now my detailing consists primarily of my own vehicles and helping out friends.
I understand that many “detailers” do not have the highest opinions of “body shop detailers”, and rightfully so, but I assure you I’m not one of those guys that fits that stereotype. Quite the contrary. My Attention-to-Detail in most (not everything) all I do has been the subject of others questioning my sanity more than once.
That’s it for my background, now on to the book.
The Book
The first thing I’d like to say is how lucky you are to have access to all of the latest products and equipment available today. You’ve done a great job at describing them.
For me, my exposure to such is miniscule compared to yours. My general philosophy is along the lines of something I heard you say before… Find something you like and use it. That’s what I do. I certainly don’t go out to buy each and every new product or piece of equipment.
Now the processes. Another great job describing those. I’m a hands-on, self-learner guy and believe you can only get so much from reading or instruction. Actual experience is required. You’ve given as clear and concise as possible descriptions of the actual processes that only experience could improve upon.
And just for the record, generally speaking, your processes and mine are very similar with few exceptions.
Here’s a few specifics…
Process Variances
“How to tape off a car before machine polishing”
While I do cover areas that I want to keep clean, i.e., windshield cowl, engine bay, wheels/tires, etc., typically I will not tape off things like body lines or edges. The only time I’ll tape an edge is when an adjacent panel has a mismatch in which case, I’ll protect the protruding edge. Hoods, doors, deck lids… I’ll crack them open so there is only a singular edge to worry about and I don’t have to buff across the edges of two adjacent panels.
“Use a tape line”
Even though you do have a cautionary note not to buff aggressively on the tape line, I see the tape line as an unnecessary risk. It scares me to imagine a “ghost” line left behind because of a piece of tape that wasn’t absolutely necessary. I completely understand though using the tape line for your before and after photo shots for educational and/or marketing purposes, but I can't see myself doing it as a matter of course.
“Test Spot”
I do agree on the general philosophy behind this but do not take it to the level of detail that you do. I treat the first section of my polishing process as my test spot. Then again, I’m working on my own vehicle, or my own paint work, and am acutely aware of what is necessary. I’m not working on different cars everyday with varying paint characteristics, but even if I was, I think I have enough stored knowledge from experience to make a rational decision of what’s necessary with the products I have.
“How to buff your car section by section”
I’ve never been a 2 x 2 guy. By your definitions, I’m more of a “let the panel dictate your path” or a “big picture buffing” type. That probably comes from my rotary background. I’ve always felt that if there were going to be any buffer trails left behind at least they would be somewhat straight and uniformed, rather than some of the haphazard random sequence of trails we’ve all seen.
“… working by machine is faster and produces better and more consistent results”
While I agree on the “faster” aspect, I do not necessarily agree with the “better and more consistent” part. My opinion is probably due to the fact that I’m an old guy and have plenty of hand-rubbing experience from days past. Heck, I remember rubbing out complete motorcycle paint jobs entirely by hand, and even some cars that I would do a final hand rub after machine polishing to remove the buffer trails. Then I’d follow that with 3M Fill & Glaze by hand, the pink stuff. Do you remember that?
“Don’t be a caveman and use a screwdriver…”
I still to this day have an old worn screwdriver that has only one use, and that is to clean my wool pad on the fly. I also have a spur but to me the screwdriver is easier/faster and does just as good a job.
Now some general comments/observations…
General Comments/Observations
“Technique is more important than the products or pads you’re using”
That, or similar words, are used multiple time throughout the book. While I tend to agree with that assessment, like I said previously, I also think that all parameters are important to the final product. Ranking of importance is debatable in my opinion. What struck me though when reading this, is a forum poll you have in which you stated something contrary – that the abrasive technology is the most important. Am I misinterpreting something? Or has your opinion shifted over time?
“Automotive paints are thin”
Again, this is stated over and over throughout. In one instance you go on to opine why it is thin… “It’s thin because it costs more, in materials and time, to apply more paint”. There is no dispute there.
But I have an additional perspective…
What is rarely, if ever, mentioned as a reason for a thin coat of paint is the fact that paint becomes less stable and less durable as the thickness increases. As paint thickness increases so do undesirable instances of paint shrinking, cracking, chipping, etc. Ideal paint thickness is a compromise of many factors and the factories tend to lean in the direction of paint stability and durability. I think rightfully so, as their market is for the transportation of the general population, not producing “show” cars.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not necessarily opposed to thicker paint coatings but they should be reserved for special circumstances, not everyday factory vehicles.
Heck I remember one Corvette I painted (that won multiple “best paint” awards) that had in the neighborhood of 40 coats of acrylic lacquer. I can’t remember the exact number but it was something like 8-10 coats of silver base, 18-20 coats of translucent candy blue, and finally 10-12 coats of clear.
A few years later the owner let the car sit outside through an Ohio winter and this beautiful and expensive paint job was trashed with cracks beyond repair.
Today’s urethane finishes are less susceptible to this type of damage, but they are not immune to it either.
“Keep in mind the most important aspect of creating a show car finish isn’t the wax, sealant or coating, it’s the prep work”
Agreed. But I’d also like to add that it goes back even farther than the prep work during detailing. It goes back to the beginning of the body preparation of the vehicle during the painting process.
This is another reason for not wet sanding factory paints beyond the “paint is thin” risks involved.
Factory bodyworks are usually full of minor flaws that become highlighted by glass smooth paint. While the paint itself may look nicer, the overall appearance may actually be worse because of such body flaws that are no longer subdued by the factory paint texture.
Flawless bodywork is key. It is the origin for all that follows.
Summary
I enjoyed the book thoroughly and think it’s a great resource for anyone venturing into this profession and/or hobby. Also, for those with previous experience, it’s a great way to see how the “other guys” do it, pick up a tip on something you may not have thought about, and measure yourself against… How do my processes stack up?
Feel free to share any info provided as you see appropriate. And if you ever have any questions about paint or painting processes feel free to ask. I'll either tell you what I know, or that I don't know. I try to never speculate or provide BS answers to something I don't know.
As for polishing questions... I think you've got that covered.
Thanks Again Mike,
John Vargo
Forum ID - 2black1s
Hi Mike,
Here’s my review after reading your book, “The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine” preceded with a little preface on my background so you know where I’m coming from.
First and foremost, great book and thank you for sending it.
My Background
My background (as related to detailing) started years ago (late 1960s) in the autobody industry. I think I was around 15 years old when I painted my first car in my Dad’s garage. An early car that comes to mind is a 1966 or 1967 (?) Buick Riviera. That is my first recollection of using a rotary buffer to remove 600G scratches from an Acrylic Lacquer finish using DuPont Machine Polishing Compound. You could feel the grit in that stuff between your fingers. And then the dusting… Whenever I read about dusting today, my thoughts are “If you only knew”. Times sure have changed.
Anyways, through the years I gained experience and improved my skills, both in painting and also polishing, which I really consider as one. They are individual tasks, each required in the execution of the overall process.
I did plenty of specialty, award winning work. Early on there were a lot of Cadillacs, Corvettes, and custom motorcycles. I prided myself in turning out the best possible work and always aimed for each job to be an improvement over the last one. My business’ motto was “We Strive for Perfection”.
The work I did required the highest level of polishing achievable. One can always debate which steps in the process are the most important, but to me, they’re all critical and important in the overall product and final polishing is no exception.
Later, around 1980 or so, I got out of the full-time painting business but continued to do classic restorations out of my home garage, as a nearly full-time side gig, for several more years until the early 2000s.
Now my detailing consists primarily of my own vehicles and helping out friends.
I understand that many “detailers” do not have the highest opinions of “body shop detailers”, and rightfully so, but I assure you I’m not one of those guys that fits that stereotype. Quite the contrary. My Attention-to-Detail in most (not everything) all I do has been the subject of others questioning my sanity more than once.
That’s it for my background, now on to the book.
The Book
The first thing I’d like to say is how lucky you are to have access to all of the latest products and equipment available today. You’ve done a great job at describing them.
For me, my exposure to such is miniscule compared to yours. My general philosophy is along the lines of something I heard you say before… Find something you like and use it. That’s what I do. I certainly don’t go out to buy each and every new product or piece of equipment.
Now the processes. Another great job describing those. I’m a hands-on, self-learner guy and believe you can only get so much from reading or instruction. Actual experience is required. You’ve given as clear and concise as possible descriptions of the actual processes that only experience could improve upon.
And just for the record, generally speaking, your processes and mine are very similar with few exceptions.
Here’s a few specifics…
Process Variances
“How to tape off a car before machine polishing”
While I do cover areas that I want to keep clean, i.e., windshield cowl, engine bay, wheels/tires, etc., typically I will not tape off things like body lines or edges. The only time I’ll tape an edge is when an adjacent panel has a mismatch in which case, I’ll protect the protruding edge. Hoods, doors, deck lids… I’ll crack them open so there is only a singular edge to worry about and I don’t have to buff across the edges of two adjacent panels.
“Use a tape line”
Even though you do have a cautionary note not to buff aggressively on the tape line, I see the tape line as an unnecessary risk. It scares me to imagine a “ghost” line left behind because of a piece of tape that wasn’t absolutely necessary. I completely understand though using the tape line for your before and after photo shots for educational and/or marketing purposes, but I can't see myself doing it as a matter of course.
“Test Spot”
I do agree on the general philosophy behind this but do not take it to the level of detail that you do. I treat the first section of my polishing process as my test spot. Then again, I’m working on my own vehicle, or my own paint work, and am acutely aware of what is necessary. I’m not working on different cars everyday with varying paint characteristics, but even if I was, I think I have enough stored knowledge from experience to make a rational decision of what’s necessary with the products I have.
“How to buff your car section by section”
I’ve never been a 2 x 2 guy. By your definitions, I’m more of a “let the panel dictate your path” or a “big picture buffing” type. That probably comes from my rotary background. I’ve always felt that if there were going to be any buffer trails left behind at least they would be somewhat straight and uniformed, rather than some of the haphazard random sequence of trails we’ve all seen.
“… working by machine is faster and produces better and more consistent results”
While I agree on the “faster” aspect, I do not necessarily agree with the “better and more consistent” part. My opinion is probably due to the fact that I’m an old guy and have plenty of hand-rubbing experience from days past. Heck, I remember rubbing out complete motorcycle paint jobs entirely by hand, and even some cars that I would do a final hand rub after machine polishing to remove the buffer trails. Then I’d follow that with 3M Fill & Glaze by hand, the pink stuff. Do you remember that?
“Don’t be a caveman and use a screwdriver…”
I still to this day have an old worn screwdriver that has only one use, and that is to clean my wool pad on the fly. I also have a spur but to me the screwdriver is easier/faster and does just as good a job.
Now some general comments/observations…
General Comments/Observations
“Technique is more important than the products or pads you’re using”
That, or similar words, are used multiple time throughout the book. While I tend to agree with that assessment, like I said previously, I also think that all parameters are important to the final product. Ranking of importance is debatable in my opinion. What struck me though when reading this, is a forum poll you have in which you stated something contrary – that the abrasive technology is the most important. Am I misinterpreting something? Or has your opinion shifted over time?
“Automotive paints are thin”
Again, this is stated over and over throughout. In one instance you go on to opine why it is thin… “It’s thin because it costs more, in materials and time, to apply more paint”. There is no dispute there.
But I have an additional perspective…
What is rarely, if ever, mentioned as a reason for a thin coat of paint is the fact that paint becomes less stable and less durable as the thickness increases. As paint thickness increases so do undesirable instances of paint shrinking, cracking, chipping, etc. Ideal paint thickness is a compromise of many factors and the factories tend to lean in the direction of paint stability and durability. I think rightfully so, as their market is for the transportation of the general population, not producing “show” cars.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not necessarily opposed to thicker paint coatings but they should be reserved for special circumstances, not everyday factory vehicles.
Heck I remember one Corvette I painted (that won multiple “best paint” awards) that had in the neighborhood of 40 coats of acrylic lacquer. I can’t remember the exact number but it was something like 8-10 coats of silver base, 18-20 coats of translucent candy blue, and finally 10-12 coats of clear.
A few years later the owner let the car sit outside through an Ohio winter and this beautiful and expensive paint job was trashed with cracks beyond repair.
Today’s urethane finishes are less susceptible to this type of damage, but they are not immune to it either.
“Keep in mind the most important aspect of creating a show car finish isn’t the wax, sealant or coating, it’s the prep work”
Agreed. But I’d also like to add that it goes back even farther than the prep work during detailing. It goes back to the beginning of the body preparation of the vehicle during the painting process.
This is another reason for not wet sanding factory paints beyond the “paint is thin” risks involved.
Factory bodyworks are usually full of minor flaws that become highlighted by glass smooth paint. While the paint itself may look nicer, the overall appearance may actually be worse because of such body flaws that are no longer subdued by the factory paint texture.
Flawless bodywork is key. It is the origin for all that follows.
Summary
I enjoyed the book thoroughly and think it’s a great resource for anyone venturing into this profession and/or hobby. Also, for those with previous experience, it’s a great way to see how the “other guys” do it, pick up a tip on something you may not have thought about, and measure yourself against… How do my processes stack up?
Feel free to share any info provided as you see appropriate. And if you ever have any questions about paint or painting processes feel free to ask. I'll either tell you what I know, or that I don't know. I try to never speculate or provide BS answers to something I don't know.
As for polishing questions... I think you've got that covered.
Thanks Again Mike,
John Vargo
Forum ID - 2black1s
