Brand New Black Paint.

[Stype4life]

Hello all? Im new here Getting my car painted as we speak. It was a train wreck Paint chipping every were. Rain caused it to come off even more, I could rub my hand across the paint and it comes up. Only Time it got a wash was when the rain did it.

I wanted to know you all thoughts about the Forum favorite Kit. I see it comes with a Sealer and the general concious is that Sealers gives a Glass like look and the Pinnacle wax would give a third demension to it. Would something cancel out the other? I dont mind just waxing every 3 weeks. What do you all think

I am Torn between Car wash's. I google the best Car Wash and I see Mcguire Gold Class everywhere Highley Recommened. Dig deeper You come across the exceptional non commercial brands. Poor Boys SSS, Optimum and Pinacle Car Shampoo. I think I will go with Optimum. But there is not much info about Optimum. Best Choice out the big 3? Feel free to give an opinion as none of these car washes have much information, Optimum has the least info.

A little bit confused as weather the Polish in the Kit is needed at this Point being the Paint will be fresh and shouldnt contain any Swirls or Blemishes. But if not needed the ole lady car can use it. Her car is a bit diffrent it is actually a dark blue with Flakes however she had the car for 2 years and we just realized that the car is dark Blue. We always thought it was Black. Until she had body work done on a Panel and we closley inspected under a street light. Blue with Flakes, so Dark the car looks Black in Broad daylight.

Any Suggestions for her car? I want to go a Tottally diffrent route with hers with another top product combo and Post Pics and let you guys decide which combo was best. Stacked Against mine. I kind of want to use Pinnacle Souvern Wax and the car constitutes as dark being we never knew it was blue. But it has bareley visible Flakes. Would Souvern from Pinnacle mute them? But any Suggestions for her is appreciated.

I will post pics to show appreciation for all help :buffing:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Since this is your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Whew! Lots of questions in your first post... hang on...

Hello all? Im new here Getting my car painted as we speak. It was a train wreck Paint chipping every were. Rain caused it to come off even more, I could rub my hand across the paint and it comes up. Only Time it got a wash was when the rain did it.

1. What kind of car is this were talking about?
2. When does it come out of the body shop?
3. Are they going to wetsand, cut and polish the paint or just shoot it and kick it out the door?

There's a term used on forums called "Horror Story", do a search and you'll see that a "Horror Story" is when someone joins a forum after having a car painted or detailed only to find their car's finish is completely swirled out, usually by the mis-use of a rotary buffer.

I wanted to know you all thoughts about the Forum favorite Kit. I see it comes with a Sealer and the general concious is that Sealers gives a Glass like look and the Pinnacle wax would give a third demension to it. Would something cancel out the other? I dont mind just waxing every 3 weeks. What do you all think.

Well there's a reason it's the "Forum Favorite" and that's because a lot of people like using the products and just as important, the results they get.

I am Torn between Car wash's. I google the best Car Wash and I see Mcguire Gold Class everywhere Highley Recommened. Dig deeper You come across the exceptional non commercial brands. Poor Boys SSS, Optimum and Pinacle Car Shampoo. I think I will go with Optimum. But there is not much info about Optimum. Best Choice out the big 3? Feel free to give an opinion as none of these car washes have much information, Optimum has the least info.

The Pinnacle line is a premium line of car care products, you can't go wrong with the Pinnacle Natural Brilliance Bodywork Shampoo or any of the products.


Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo

Coconut oils to lubricate the surface during the washing process plus they smell great. TUFF SUDS II foaming technology for removing dirt and road grime gently off delicate clear coat paints, pH balanced so it won't strip or remove previously applied coats of wax or paint sealant... plus long lasting suds...

A little bit confused as weather the Polish in the Kit is needed at this Point being the Paint will be fresh and shouldnt contain any Swirls or Blemishes.

See my note about "Horror Stories" above. Hope for the best; if they are sanding and buffing the paint chances are very good that you're car will have swirls. If there are swirls, the AIO is a cleaner/sealant and won't be the right product to remove swirls and possibly sanding marks out of fresh paint.

You'll want a DA Polisher if you don't already own one.

But if not needed the ole lady car can use it. Her car is a bit diffrent it is actually a dark blue with Flakes however she had the car for 2 years and we just realized that the car is dark Blue. We always thought it was Black. Until she had body work done on a Panel and we closley inspected under a street light. Blue with Flakes, so Dark the car looks Black in Broad daylight.

Klasse AIO is a good cleaner/sealant, very popular with enthusiasts for a lot of years...

Would Souvern from Pinnacle mute them?

Souveran will maximize clarity and reveal any metallic flakes as well as the full richness of color.

I will post pics to show appreciation for all help :buffing:

There's "Inserting" pictures and "Attaching" pictures. Out of the two options, "inserting" is better because everyone can see them without having to click on a thumbnail. I write a lot of articles, some on working with photos on forums...

Also, when I post replies, it's often times for the OP, (That stands for the Original Poster, in this case that's you and for everyone else that will read this thread into the future... check out the ones with the black arrows...

Photography and Working with Pictures on the Internet
How-To capture swirls, scratches, etchings and other surface defects with your camera
How-to work with pictures on discussion forums
--> How to upload a photo into your Autogeek Photo Gallery
--> How to insert an image from your photo gallery into your message
How to crop out the fluff and resize your pictures! - Using FREE online software!

 

[cobalt9123]

Welcome to the forums

Here's a link Mike just posted that may be of help..
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/26967-don-t-wax-your-car-least-30-days.html

As far as shampoo's go, like Mike said, you can not go wrong with Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo. It is absolutely fantastic. I just ordered a gallon myself. However, having said that, it is quite expensive for some people. I have heard very good things about Optimum Car Wash from those who use it, but it often is over-shadowed by Optimum's "leading" product, Optimum No Rinse Wash. Optimum would be fine for starting out. My suggestion is get a few sample sizes or 16 oz or smaller sizes of the car washes you want to try. You REALLY won't know how YOU like something until YOU try it. I will be ordering some Optimum Car Wash and Chemical Guys Glossworkz (not sold on AGO) shampoo's soon to try them out. I'm a shampoo/wash mitt junkie...

As far as the forum favorite kit, I honestly wouldn't bother with it. I have recently tried some cheaper alternatives and found them to be fantastic. For a sealant, DP Poli-Coat paint sealant. For a carnauba wax, DP Max Wax. In case you don't know...a sealant has polymers and generally lasts much longer than a carnauba wax but doesn't give the same "glow". In my opinion, a sealant gives a "glassy" "wet" look, and a carnauba gives a "deep" "three dimensional" look. You apply a sealant first, after claying and or polishing the car. Sealants usually take longer to cure (up to 12 hours) and most contain a cleaner. You apply a carnauba wax on top of the sealant after the sealant has cured and carnauba waxes generally have a short cure time (1-3 hours). Carnauba waxes usually don't contain cleaners. (Note, you can use a carnauba wax or polymer sealant by itself.)

You can see my results from using DP products in this thread:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/show-n-shine/26846-cobalt-ss-tc-wash-n-wax.html

I recommend DP products to newbies so that they don't break the bank while getting started in detailing. I don't like to scare them away by telling them that they HAVE to spend over $300 on washing/waxing supplies. However, do know that detailing is a disease..and you may find yourself emptying your wallet to Autogeek...:hungry:

Also it is good to know that there are also products out there that blend carnauba waxes with polymers to create an "ultimate wax" such as Wolfgang Fuzion. I don't suggest applying any wax to a car without claying it (if it hasn't been recently clayed).

Useful links:
Wolfgang Füzion Estate Wax Special
DP Max Wax- Made with pure carnauba wax and advanced polymers.
DP Poli-Coat Paint Sealant, polymer paint sealant, auto paint sealant, DP Policoat paint sealant, paint sealer

 

[Da Fats]

Brand new paint... SKIP THE CLAY!... you can do damage during this step and it should be very contaminate free. I am on board with the don't clay unless you polish group thats floating around here as I have personally seen marring left by claying on new finishes.

If your worried about getting good better life out of your sealent/wax or removing the old layers of wax there are products like Poli-coat by DP with a bonding agent in it... ultima's and duragloss line ups that have bonding agents you can use before the sealant and paint cleaning lotions to prep the surface for you.

Definitely should wait before sealing and waxing whatever time frame the body shop tells you. might be up to 6 months??? others can give better advice on that then me.

+1 for the DP line up Poli coat + Max wax is the most Shine per dollar your going to find... It's a nice "go to" line up.

Klasse has a slight learning curve so do with easy to use stuff till your feet are wet.

just my 2 cents

chris

 

[cobalt9123]

I've personally seen marring left by clay on old finishes that haven't been painted in years :dig:
Haha, just having fun..but really, I have. I wouldn't suggest claying a brand new car either as it shouldn't have bonded contaminants. I'd suggest washing only for the recommended cure time (and some paint manufacturers don't even let you wash during this time). Definitely ask your paint sprayer their opinion on you detailing the car and your can/can't dos. Make sure you read that thread that I posted above that Mike wrote today. rops:

 

[Stype4life]

Since this is your first post...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:

Whew! Lots of questions in your first post... hang on...

1. What kind of car is this were talking about?
2. When does it come out of the body shop?
3. Are they going to wetsand, cut and polish the paint or just shoot it and kick it out the door?

Hey Mike I really do appreciate the response. We are Talking about an 00 S-Type Jaguar. Painted Black. It will be coming out the shop this Weekend. Not to sure what hes going to do but I know for certain theres no way he can just paint over it. He has to strip the Trunk, Hood, and misc parts of the sides of the car. I will be contacting him to insure he will cut and polish the paint whatever that is.​

But I wont put it pass him if he cuts as many corners as possible painting and shooting as many locations possible on the car. What are you recommending if this is what he does?

Klasse AIO is a good cleaner/sealant, very popular with enthusiasts for a lot of years...

Klasse All In One Polish will remove oxidation, minor swirls, old wax, and other surface blemishes;

Use Klasse High Gloss Sealant to achieve optimum results, including that deep mirror shine that reflects beautifully with diamond-like facets for six months or longer. When used in conjunction with Klasse All-In-One Polish, you will see scratch marks and paint discolorations disappear. This gloss hides and removes more swirls than any other brand, and provides the ultimate protection in extreme weather.

So what are the diffrence between these products? You say AIO are they overlapping on what they already do? I read the word Polish in detailing will confuse you.

You'll want a DA Polisher if you don't already own one.

I see pinnacle has one that dosent remove swirls but blends it. What do you suggest? dosent have to be pinnacle.

So all and all If I do what this says I would be washing with Pinnacle, Drying and going over the car with Crystal Mist, Polishing with what ever you suggest sealing with the AIO then sealing again with the High Gloss then Waxing with the Pinnacle?

From the Horror stories I think I need to select a polish

There's "Inserting" pictures and "Attaching" pictures. Out of the two options, "inserting" is better because everyone can see them without having to click on a thumbnail. I write a lot of articles, some on working with photos on forums....

Ok I will insert them
thanks for the material.
Thanks for your response

 

[Stype4life]

Welcome to the forums

Here's a link Mike just posted that may be of help..
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...s/26967-don-t-wax-your-car-least-30-days.html

As far as shampoo's go, like Mike said, you can not go wrong with Pinnacle Bodywork Shampoo. It is absolutely fantastic. I just ordered a gallon myself. However, having said that, it is quite expensive for some people. I have heard very good things about Optimum Car Wash from those who use it, but it often is over-shadowed by Optimum's "leading" product, Optimum No Rinse Wash. Optimum would be fine for starting out. My suggestion is get a few sample sizes or 16 oz or smaller sizes of the car washes you want to try. You REALLY won't know how YOU like something until YOU try it. I will be ordering some Optimum Car Wash and Chemical Guys Glossworkz (not sold on AGO) shampoo's soon to try them out. I'm a shampoo/wash mitt junkie...

I Forgot about Free Samples I will Try that out. I will sample the Optimum if its Available. The no Rinse, How does it work? You dont rinse your car off? Were do the particles go? Excuse the Ignorance there isnt enough info about Optimum out there?

As far as the forum favorite kit, I honestly wouldn't bother with it. I have recently tried some cheaper alternatives and found them to be fantastic. For a sealant, DP Poli-Coat paint sealant. For a carnauba wax, DP Max Wax....

Fantastic results, ok good. Would you say the results were actually better?

In case you don't know...a sealant has polymers and generally lasts much longer than a carnauba wax but doesn't give the same "glow". In my opinion, a sealant gives a "glassy" "wet" look, and a carnauba gives a "deep" "three dimensional" look.

In your experience would you say one cancels the other or do you get a Glassy Wet 3 demensional look?

Also it is good to know that there are also products out there that blend carnauba waxes with polymers to create an "ultimate wax" such as Wolfgang Fuzion. I don't suggest applying any wax to a car without claying it (if it hasn't been recently clayed).

Useful links:
Wolfgang Füzion Estate Wax Special
DP Max Wax- Made with pure carnauba wax and advanced polymers.
DP Poli-Coat Paint Sealant, polymer paint sealant, auto paint sealant, DP Policoat paint sealant, paint sealer

What would makes the wax an Ultimate wax? Durability? shine? protection? I am going for the best shine, That wet, Glassy, 3 demensional shine at its finest. I will sacrifice more applications for this.

 

[cobalt9123]

I Forgot about Free Samples I will Try that out. I will sample the Optimum if its Available. The no Rinse, How does it work? You dont rinse your car off? Were do the particles go? Excuse the Ignorance there isnt enough info about Optimum out there?

Definitely get some free samples but I don't believe Optimum is available. The particles go in your rinse bucket if using the 2 bucket rinse method. Here is a video of Mike Phillips explaining how to use it: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmXZG85dByk]YouTube - Part 2 - How to use a Rinseless Car Wash to wash your car[/video]

I suggest you watch every video Mike has put out there, they will answer a LOT of your questions before you even have to post rops:

Fantastic results, ok good. Would you say the results were actually better?
In your experience would you say one cancels the other or do you get a Glassy Wet 3 demensional look?

Better than what? And as far as canceling out the other, I don't really think so. I believe it looks better with a sealant topped with a wax. Plus, when the glow of the carnauba wears off in a couple weeks or months, the protection from the sealant will still be there :xyxthumbs:

What would makes the wax an Ultimate wax? Durability? shine? protection? I am going for the best shine, That wet, Glassy, 3 demensional shine at its finest. I will sacrifice more applications for this.

All three, plus easy to apply/remove, great smell, price...I consider all things when buying a wax. Do know that topping a sealant with a sealant is not proactive if it contains cleaners. It could remove the current layer of sealant and leave another but it won't add to the shine. It's basically a replacement act. You can layer carnaubas because they usually don't ever contain cleaners.

 

[Stype4life]

Brand new paint... SKIP THE CLAY!... you can do damage during this step and it should be very contaminate free. I am on board with the don't clay unless you polish group thats floating around here as I have personally seen marring left by claying on new finishes.

Definitely should wait before sealing and waxing whatever time frame the body shop tells you. might be up to 6 months??? others can give better advice on that then me.

Klasse has a slight learning curve so do with easy to use stuff till your feet are wet.

just my 2 cents

chris

Thanks for the Reply weather to clay was going to be my next Question. I appreciate the advice.

Do know that topping a sealant with a sealant is not proactive if it contains cleaners. It could remove the current layer of sealant and leave another but it won't add to the shine. It's basically a replacement act. You can layer carnaubas because they usually don't ever contain cleaners.

Ok Im glad you brought this to my attention but do you have an clue what the purpose of AIO and topping it with gold klasse being that they are both sealants?

 

[sgtmillhouse648]

AIO is exactly what it says, all in one. It's primary purpose is to clean the paint before sealing, however it does have some sealant properties to it. By using AIO, you clean the paint and remove minor contaminants/oils etc. from it, but also provide an ideal surface for the sealant glaze to bond to for maximum protection.

This is very important as the sealant glaze doesn't have any cleaners in it and is what is referred to as a finishing sealant. It does not contain any cleaners in it and cannot 'prep' the surface it is going to bond to hence the need for AIO. However, it provides a much better barrier between the outside world and the paint than AIO does hence the reason for topping it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey Mike I really do appreciate the response. We are Talking about an 00 S-Type Jaguar. Painted Black. It will be coming out the shop this Weekend. Not to sure what hes going to do but I know for certain theres no way he can just paint over it. He has to strip the Trunk, Hood, and misc parts of the sides of the car. I will be contacting him to insure he will cut and polish the paint whatever that is.​

Cool car...​

Some shops sand and buff paint, some shops don't, depends on how good the painter is and how well dialed-in his paint system and booth are. Some don't sand and buff because it's not part of the package.​

You can see a little sanding and buffing in this video...​

Optimum Hyper Compound​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhkBAhXDk8Q]YouTube - Optimum Hyper Compound at Autogeek's Show Car Garage![/video]

But I wont put it pass him if he cuts as many corners as possible painting and shooting as many locations possible on the car. What are you recommending if this is what he does?

Wetsanding, cutting and buffing are a good thing if it's done correctly and you're looking for a show car finish, if it's done incorrectly it leaves swirls in the paint. If a person doesn't care about a show car finish then it's a non-issue.

I deal with a lot of "Serious Enthusiasts" always looking for a show car finish and people that just want to wash and wax their car, don't know what a person wants though unless they tell us...

Most people don't know what to ask for when getting a custom paint job so I'm writing and article on this topic.

So what are the difference between these products?

Probably the thing to do will be to wait until you get your car back and then pull it into direct, overhead sun and inspect the finish...

Hope it looks like this,
The sun shots...

and not this,

The picture with the swirls is the horror story that is the norm for buffing work from body shops... a lot of times the painter is "Great", but it's the guy that does the sanding and buffing that makes or breaks the paint job.

 

[Stype4life]

Hey Mike got my car back there are no Holograms but there are swirl Marks.
Since we have Swirls Im thinking of getting the Souvern Wolfgang Kit. Looks like im going to have to do alot of work on this one unfortunately

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hey Mike got my car back there are no Holograms but there are swirl Marks.
Since we have Swirls Im thinking of getting the Souvern Wolfgang Kit. Looks like im going to have to do alot of work on this one unfortunately

So there are now rotary buffer induced "Buffer Swirls" or Holograms" but there are swirl scratches from being washed or wiped?


Tracers Tracers - RIDS - Pigtails - Cobweb Swirls - Rotary Buffer Swirls - Holograms - Water Spots - Bird Drooping Etchings - Micro-Marring


Rotary Buffer Swirls also called Holograms or Buffer Trails
Rotary Buffer Swirls leave a pattern that mimics the direction or path the rotary buffer was moved over the paint.

Cropped out section focusing on the Zig-Zag pattern of Buffer Swirls

Cobweb Swirls also called Spiderweb Swirls
Cobweb swirls also called Spider Web swirls appear to be in a round pattern like a spider web when a bright point of light is placed onto a panel. The scratches are not actually in circles but all kinds of random directions, you see a circular effect because they random scratches reflect or bounce light back at the point of light.

Regardless, you can remove most swirls using a DA Polisher like the PC 7424XP with 5.5" foam buffing pads.

The Wolfgang Twins are easy to use and guarantee haze free, swirl-free results...


Call our 1-800-869-3011 number and they can make sure you get everything you need to do the job right the first time.