Buffing By Hand... I Can't figure it out!

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Naaman

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I'm new to the detailing scene and have been trying to figure out how to wax/buff by hand. I have some fine scrathes in my paint that I want to get rid of.

I've used Meguires products (scratch-X, Caranuba, etc), and I follow the directions on the bottles exactly. But the scrathes and swirls, etc remain after my process.

What do I need to know to get my paint looking nice and smooth again?

I do not feel that I'm ready for an orbital yet, as I am worried that I don't know enough of the nuances of paint care and application of the tool to apply it without damaging my paint, so I'd like to get a nice a finish as I can by hand.

Help appreciated!
 
You need a machine. buffing by hand is quite difficult, more difficult than by machine. It's a skill in itself, and if the paint is hard and defects significant - it can be next to impossible to get anywhere.
 
With the number of videos readily available on how to use machines you have nothing to be afraid of.
1. Buy polisher
2. Sit on YouTube for 8 hours watching the millions of how to videos
3. Go make your car look new.

If that's not enough find a neighbor with a piece of trash car and volunteer your services and make use of his junk car to get familiar with machine.
 
Agree with the others, however, if you want to continue by hand you can get minor scratches out. I work by hand in tight areas such as under door handles with success. I've never used the products you mention, but one thing that stood out from your post is the use of carnauba. Carnauba is a wax not a scratch removing compound, you won't get any results from that. Looking at the information on Scratch X I would say it's probably not aggressive enough to remove the scratches you are working on. It is a polish, not a compound, and only intended to remove very light/minor scratches. Look for a more aggressive compound followed by a polish and then a wax. You can get this all in a kit like the Blackfire duo SRC compound and polish (I use this combo under door handles with a MF towel). I think you will be happy with the results. Plus when you finally decide to get a DA you can use them with it as well.
 
If I didn't say so before, Welcome!

Look at Mike's tutorials, and you'll see that there is no need to fear a buffer. AG has some great kits, the difficulty is deciding which one is best suited for you.
 
I should write a book on how to polish paint by hand... it can be done but due to the hardness of modern clearcoats and the fact that ANY scratch or defect is so easily seen by your eyes, (and most people's expectations for appearance results is really high), the trick is,

1. You must use a compound with known good abrasive technology what can be applied by hand. Uber Compound, M105 and Ultimate Compound all work. I have articles showing me removing sanding marks with Uber Compound and M105 and also Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover but it's a medium cut compound and it's faster to use a "true" compound.


2. You must ONLY work a small area at a time, usually about 12" squarish or smaller. (Seriously).

3. Move you have back and forth at light speed. (Most people try to remove scratches out of clear coats using a very passive, slow, motion.

4. Apply firm pressure while moving your hand quickly. (These two things will tire you out very fast and the kicker is you're only working a SMALL area, you still have the rest of the car to do).

5. Start out using microfiber as the fibers will act as a type of abrasive.

6. Finish out by foam to remove the scratches the fibers leave behind.


That's off the top of my head.

It's much easier and faster to get a simple, entry level tool like a Porter Cable or the forum favorite the Griot's dual action polisher, get some pads and some quality products and have at it.



:)
 
Any dual action polisher is totally safe to use, and after you use one, the only thing you will say is "why did I not get one sooner". Yes, there is an initial investment in the machine, pads, compounds and polishes etc, but that will get you the best results with the least amount of effort, and a fraction of the effort based on doing it by hand.

I purchased my PC7424XP as part of a kit here at AG and it included a DVD of Mike showing how to use the machine. After I watched that a few times, I went to work and using what I had at the time (Ultimate Compound and Ultimate Polish), I got amazing results. The results far exceeded anything I was able to accomplish by hand. Since then I have never looked back! And tomorrow, I will pull out my machine, and do some maintanance on my car!
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
3. Move your hand back and forth at light speed. (Most people try to remove scratches out of clear coats using a very passive, slow, motion.

4. Apply firm pressure while moving your hand quickly. (These two things will tire you out very fast and the kicker is you're only working a SMALL area, you still have the rest of the car to do).
Click to expand...

I think I need a nap now just from reading this.

This paints a great picture of the intensive labor involved in hand applied paint correction.
 
bsmith0404 said:
I work by hand in tight areas such as under door handles with success.
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This is a good point. On some of the amazing turn-arounds I've seen posted of swirled-out but fairly new cars, it usually seems there are areas--door handles like you mention, but also on the rear (between the bumper and trunk lid, around the licensed plate and tail lights, around spoilers) and on the front (around odd-shaped grills and the front lights and spoilers) which are too small for a 3-4" pad, or have squared corners that a round pad can't reach, or might risk hitting paint with the backing plate in recessed areas.

So it would seem that removal of swirls by hand, in these small or odd-shaped recessed areas, would be a useful supplementary skill for most everyone to develop.

Are there some videos covering this specifically, that anyone can point to (discussing which compounds work (or don't work) for hand removal in these small/recessed areas; advantages of different types of applicators and foam shape/density, pressure, wrist speed, straight versus orbital motion, etc.)?

edit: Oops, I see Mike addressed some of this in text form, in post #9, but videos or photos are always helpful since technique is often hard to describe in words.
 
Hand polishing and compounding gets old eventually. It took me about 6 years to get the GG6. Even before I got acquainted with the boards, I had to learn on my own about proper washing habits. When you do it by hand you become very picky about what touches the car since you know deep down what it takes to get that out.

I used meguiars foam hand applicators. Worked very small sections, usually the width of a single overlap, so about eight inches. Stay off of your finger tips, keep your hand flat like waxing. Practice on a section of a bumper or something till you get it right. It is all about time, patience, and stamina. Mike referenced Ultimate Compound... that stuff is my favorite. Ultimate Polish, is another essential component. The clear coat on my fuel door was starting to fade. I just attacked that with Ultimate Polish and it cleared up so well. I was all excited.

As for microfiber pads, I have never used them so I cant really comment. I would go with Mike on that one if I were starting out. Since you will just get used to them and that will be your go to item, like mine being Megs Foam.
 
Griever said:
It took me about 6 years to get the GG6.
Click to expand...

And my guess is after you purchased the Griot's Garage 6" Dual Action Polisher and used it a few times you wished you would have moved up to machine polishing sooner...



Griever said:
Even before I got acquainted with the boards, I had to learn on my own about proper washing habits.

When you do it by hand you become very picky about what touches the car since you know deep down what it takes to get that out.
Click to expand...


Exactly and well said.


Once a person learns not only how much work goes into removing swirls and scratches out of the paint on an ENTIRE car, (not a spot), then it sinks in that moving forward, ANYTHING that TOUCHES the paint has to be of the highest quality you can obtain AND the manner in which you touch the paint has to be well though-out.

In my how-to books I have a section on the two approaches to washing a car, the first approach is the aggressive approach BEFORE you buff out your car. The second approach is the CAREFUL APPROACH AFTER you have buffed out your car because you now know how easy it is to put scratches into the paint and what it's going to take to get them out.



Griever said:
I used Meguiar's foam hand applicators. Worked very small sections, usually the width of a single overlap, so about eight inches. Stay off of your finger tips, keep your hand flat like waxing. Practice on a section of a bumper or something till you get it right. It is all about time, patience, and stamina.
Click to expand...

I agree. I get winded rubbing paint out by hand.




Griever said:
Mike referenced Ultimate Compound... that stuff is my favorite.
Click to expand...


To my knowledge this was the first compound introduced to the market that you could successfully use by hand and remove swirls and scratches without leaving swirls and scratches at the same time.

Before Meguiar's introduced their SMAT products, anything I tried by hand could remove defects but it would leave behind it's own defects.

Technically, M105 was introduced before Ultimate Compound but Ultimate Compound uses the same technology.


The Aggressiveness Order of SMAT Products - This might surprise you!

The SMAT Pack - Everything you ever wanted to know about Meguiar's SMAT products...


The Wolfgang Uber Compound, Total Swirl Remover and Finishing Glaze all work excellent by hand also.


The Wolfgang Four


Griever said:
As for microfiber pads, I have never used them so I cant really comment. I would go with Mike on that one if I were starting out. Since you will just get used to them and that will be your go to item, like mine being Megs Foam.
Click to expand...

A person has three basic options for "application material".

Terry Cloth - Most aggressive.

Microfiber - less aggressive than terry cloth still offers more bite and abrading than soft foam.

Foam - Least aggressive - At least in the context of the average foam wax applicator pads.
​

AG does carry some very aggressive foam applicator pads here,

CCS Euro Foam Hand Polish Applicators - Hand polish, hand detail, foam applicators, CCS foam pads, polishing pad




:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
And my guess is after you purchased the Griot's Garage 6" Dual Action Polisher and used it a few times you wished you would have moved up to machine polishing sooner...
Click to expand...


Actually, it may sound strange but... working by hand felt more personal and like sanding you feel every curve and every line. You pay attention to every little thing you come across. Just can't feel that when you're so far away from the pad.



Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Exactly and well said.


Once a person learns not only how much work goes into removing swirls and scratches out of the paint on an ENTIRE car, (not a spot), then it sinks in that moving forward, ANYTHING that TOUCHES the paint has to be of the highest quality you can obtain AND the manner in which you touch the paint has to be well though-out.

In my how-to books I have a section on the two approaches to washing a car, the first approach is the aggressive approach BEFORE you buff out your car. The second approach is the CAREFUL APPROACH AFTER you have buffed out your car because you now know how easy it is to put scratches into the paint and what it's going to take to get them out.
Click to expand...


I will have to buy this book, likely on my next AG order.

Thanks for the background on those products, like when you told me your story about Stoops. I love history so I eat all that stuff up. Just like before my grandfather passed away, I was at his place every week or two just to get his D-Day stories, and his 1938 Lincoln Zephyr stories. Those are some good ones, I wish he still had that bad boy.
 
Great feedback, everyone, thank you. I will look into getting an orbital. What I don't want is to wind up with one of those "car wash jobs" where I've paid for a wax/buff and receive my car with swirl marks all over. I assume it's a matter of the product and the technician not really caring about the individual car as much as the volume of cars he works on.
 
Naaman said:
Great feedback, everyone, thank you. I will look into getting an orbital.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I cannot remember anyone that I've interacted on a discussion forum with over the years that has upgraded to machine polishing that ever regretted it. In fact, most of the time they post the same comment and it goes like this,


I should have done this years ago...



Naaman said:
What I don't want is to wind up with one of those "car wash jobs" where I've paid for a wax/buff and receive my car with swirl marks all over.

I assume it's a matter of the product and the technician not really caring about the individual car as much as the volume of cars he works on.
Click to expand...


Most car washes and car washes that offer detailing don't have the proper tools to do the job right and by tools that can be as simple as a clean, wash mitt that doesn't scratch or any kind of drying or wiping towel that's clean and/or soft enough to not scratch when used. Nor any up to date education.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
For what it's worth, I cannot remember anyone that I've interacted on a discussion forum with over the years that has upgraded to machine polishing that ever regretted it. In fact, most of the time they post the same comment and it goes like this,


I should have done this years ago...


Most car washes and car washes that offer detailing don't have the proper tools to do the job right and by tools that can be as simple as a clean, wash mitt that doesn't scratch or any kind of drying or wiping towel that's clean and/or soft enough to not scratch when used. Nor any up to date education.


:)
Click to expand...

Well, I'm already sold on the DA polisher. Just a matter of shopping for a good deal at this point.
 
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