Can a detailing product damage a driveway?

[creaky]

I cleaned my wife's car yesterday and this afternoon noticed these small, shallow divots in the driveway on the side where her car was located. I can't unfortunately get the close-up pic to upload but basically there a bunch of pea-to-nickel size small indentations in the driveway that are gray (not black), like it has been dug out with a small spoon. The birds-eye shot is attached.

I used ONR 1.5 oz-3gal for the "Garry Dean" wash preceded by Stoner Tarminator on the wheels and exhaust then Griot's wheel wash. If it could be anything I imagine it was the Tarminator but I did hose everything down afterward. I used Tarminator on my car last week with no problems. This was the first time I'd done the "GD" wash on the new driveway.

The driveway is asphalt and was installed in July (so not yet sealed). It was not a particularly hot day yesterday (about 75 degrees) and it has been cool here this summer (lately getting down into the 50s at night).

Any ideas?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Was it the Griot's Heavy Duty (clear) or the green? My bets would be on the Tarminator since that's got solvents in it and the driveway is fresh.

 

[allenk4]

I seriously doubt the asphalt was damaged by the products you listed

 

[theblob640]

Damage, no. Stain, yes. Parts of my driveway is also hydrophobic now after my Hydro2 application on my wheels.

 

[creaky]

Was it the Griot's Heavy Duty (clear) or the green? My bets would be on the Tarminator since that's got solvents in it and the driveway is fresh.

It was the green.

I seriously doubt the asphalt was damaged by the products you listed

I doubt it too but I can't for the life of me figure out what could have made those marks. No one drove on the driveway except me taking the car out and back into the garage. The marks are only on that side of the driveway. Perhaps some kind of animal? Miniature meteor shower?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

It's hot out, you've still got some solvents coming out of the mix, add the pressure of the car tires, it's possible you got some reaction. You sure they weren't there before?

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say, mix fresh asphalt, heat, more solvent (Tarminator), heat and pressure from the weight of the car, is it possible some of the aggregate stuck to the tires and was pulled out? That might explain the shape of the "divots".

 

[2.ooohhh]

I would say that Yes tarminator could potentially damage an unsealed asphalt driveway since it is make for removing tar and asphalt.

"Spray Tarminator into a soft, clean cloth. Gently wipe a Tarminator-soaked cloth over pre-washed surface to lift and remove tar, sap, grease, and asphalt. For difficult residue, reapply or spray directly onto surface and let Tarminator penetrate for a few minutes before wiping."

Source:MoreShine | Tarminator

(note to mods not meant to post an alternate place to purchase so much as the manufacturer's product page)

 

[allenk4]

Go outside and do a "Test Spot" on an inconspicuous spot of the driveway with Tarminator

Spray a table spoonful on a small section and see if it eats a nickel sized divot into the driveway


Why won't your cell phone let you take a close-up? Maybe borrow someone's and email it to yourself

 

[allenk4]

Isn't an asphalt driveway sealed with liquid asphalt?

Not sure why it being uncoated, would have much impact

Wondering

 

[creaky]

Thanks for the responses.

Damage, no. Stain, yes. Parts of my driveway is also hydrophobic now after my Hydro2 application on my wheels.

This is what my wife thinks happened. That the "divots" were already there and that the Tarminator pooled in there with the runoff and changed the color from back to gray.

It's hot out, you've still got some solvents coming out of the mix, add the pressure of the car tires, it's possible you got some reaction. You sure they weren't there before?

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say, mix fresh asphalt, heat, more solvent (Tarminator), heat and pressure from the weight of the car, is it possible some of the aggregate stuck to the tires and was pulled out? That might explain the shape of the "divots".

Can't be sure the divots weren't there before (see above) but the patterning of the divots is too widespread and random to look like they were done by tires.

Go outside and do a "Test Spot" on an inconspicuous spot of the driveway with Tarminator

Spray a table spoonful on a small section and see if it eats a nickel sized divot into the driveway

Great idea. I'm out of Tarminator but will try and pick some more up soon.

Why won't your cell phone let you take a close-up? Maybe borrow someone's and email it to yourself

This is precisely what I have been doing! The pic is within the size limits and somehow the other pic in the OP was just fine. I've tried with two different pics (jpg files) and I keep getting the "upload failed" error message in the popup window. I will post it on my website and then try to link it. That might work. I'll also try saving to another format.

Isn't an asphalt driveway sealed with liquid asphalt?

Not sure why it being uncoated, would have much impact

Wondering

I don't know - I'll look into this.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Isn't an asphalt driveway sealed with liquid asphalt?

Driveway sealers are typically latex products. Sealing asphalt with asphalt wouldn't really improve the properties of the underlying asphalt.

The latex sealer provides a sacrificial barrier to protect the asphalt from UV degradation (kind of like putting putting an LSP on your paint). It also helps to seal any microfissures to prevent moisture intrusion and possible freeze/thaw damage.

 

[Audios S6]

Isn't an asphalt driveway sealed with liquid asphalt?

Not sure why it being uncoated, would have much impact

Wondering

Generally a latex based sealant is used. But that is normally not done immediately, you may wait a year or two before putting on a sealcoat.

Hard to tell from the photos but the texture looks more like the driveway was chipsealed than repaved. If it was repaved, it looks to be very heavy on coarse aggregate and shy on fines, mineral filler and bitumen, almost like a stone matrix asphalt (SMA) or a pervious pavement. I only looked breifly at the NY state specs, but they seem to follow a similar spec to Minnesota (which does not use SMA), most asphalt plants are going to be producing NYSDOT spec'd asphalt for large projects and if you're a residential contractor using that plant, you get what you get that day. All that said, I would not expect an SMA or pervious pavement for your driveway.

 

[creaky]

OK, hopefully this link to the closeup of the driveway will work:

That's my wedding ring for scale.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

You sure the neighbor kid wasn't just pounding on something in your driveway?

 

[creaky]

Generally a latex based sealant is used. But that is normally not done immediately, you may wait a year or two before putting on a sealcoat.

Hard to tell from the photos but the texture looks more like the driveway was chipsealed than repaved. If it was repaved, it looks to be very heavy on coarse aggregate and shy on fines, mineral filler and bitumen, almost like a stone matrix asphalt (SMA) or a pervious pavement. I only looked breifly at the NY state specs, but they seem to follow a similar spec to Minnesota (which does not use SMA), most asphalt plants are going to be producing NYSDOT spec'd asphalt for large projects and if you're a residential contractor using that plant, you get what you get that day. All that said, I would not expect an SMA or pervious pavement for your driveway.

Thanks for the detailed reply. This is a completely new driveway, not a repave. Don't know if that makes a difference nor do I know exactly what was used for the driveway but I do know it came from a plant that also supplies the DOT.

You sure the neighbor kid wasn't just pounding on something in your driveway?

No neighbors, we live in a very rural area. The divots do look like they were made by some kind of impact. Hard to say.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I'm glad to know we have a paving expert on here (Audios S6). I might have to pick his brain shortly...

 

[Audios S6]

OK, hopefully this link to the closeup of the driveway will work:

That's my wedding ring for scale.

Disclaimer: I am only vaguely familiar with NYSDOT asphalt specs so take it for what it's worth. NYSDOT uses a superpave mix design, which is similar to what we use in Minnesota, but the actual design criteria may differ resulting a very different mix. Such that they may use way more coarse aggregate and less fines and filler.

If that was a typical mix that I would see in Minnesota, I would say the mix had cooled way too much before it was placed, it was also too cold when they rolled it and you got very little compaction. If the bitumen isn't hot enough, the aggregate can't slide around allowing for compaction. My guess would then be that some of the surface aggregate is poorly adhered to the pavement below and has popped out over time, or even a small amout or tarminator may have cause some portions to pop out. Was this paved in cold temps or are you a long distance from the asphalt plant?

Here's a photo taken in the spring of asphalt that was poured in November the previous year in Minnesota, this was probably a week before the plants shutdown. One thing to note is the density, far less 'gap-graded' than the mix in your photo. This illustarates that even when ambient temps are in the 30s and 40s, you can get good results if the mix is at the appropriate tempuratures. Also to note, the settlement at the concrete slab, the corner has been beat up by plowing over the winter. The serttlement was a result of poor compaction of the subgrade, not the asphalt.

And a photo of SMA mix (this is from the UK , where it is called stone mastic asphalt)

Somebody with more knowledge of NY asphalt mixes would need to confirm if your driveway is typical of NYS or not. I expect you have a 1 year warranty on it, you may want to send the photos to the contractor and find out if this finish is typical of their installations.

 

[creaky]

Disclaimer: I am only vaguely familiar with NYSDOT asphalt specs so take it for what it's worth. NYSDOT uses a superpave mix design, which is similar to what we use in Minnesota, but the actual design criteria may differ resulting a very different mix. Such that they may use way more coarse aggregate and less fines and filler.

If that was a typical mix that I would see in Minnesota, I would say the mix had cooled way too much before it was placed, it was also too cold when they rolled it and you got very little compaction. If the bitumen isn't hot enough, the aggregate can't slide around allowing for compaction. My guess would then be that some of the surface aggregate is poorly adhered to the pavement below and has popped out over time, or even a small amout or tarminator may have cause some portions to pop out. Was this paved in cold temps or are you a long distance from the asphalt plant?

Here's a photo taken in the spring of asphalt that was poured in November the previous year in Minnesota, this was probably a week before the plants shutdown. One thing to note is the density, far less 'gap-graded' than the mix in your photo. This illustarates that even when ambient temps are in the 30s and 40s, you can get good results if the mix is at the appropriate tempuratures. Also to note, the settlement at the concrete slab, the corner has been beat up by plowing over the winter. The serttlement was a result of poor compaction of the subgrade, not the asphalt.

And a photo of SMA mix (this is from the UK , where it is called stone mastic asphalt)

Somebody with more knowledge of NY asphalt mixes would need to confirm if your driveway is typical of NYS or not. I expect you have a 1 year warranty on it, you may want to send the photos to the contractor and find out if this finish is typical of their installations.

Thanks for the detailed response!

As I remember, the day the asphalt was laid down it was somewhere in the 80s. However, the plant where it came from was far away (about 40 minute or so drive). I do have a 5-year guarantee on the work and will show it to the contractor.

 

[creaky]

Here's an update. I did a test spot on the driveway using Tarminator in the same way I would use it on a car: spray, let dwell ~75", hose off. After 24 hours there is only a very slight discoloration in that spot (a bit darker and more "burnt" looking) but it was so subtle I didn't feel compelled to post a picture.

I also spoke with the paving contractor about what happened. He said that it was likely stones that were not completely pushed into the mix by the roller when the pavement was being laid. We're going to sealcoat the driveway in the spring so I'll have him take a look at it when the time comes. In the meantime, the contractor told me not to worry about it and that he'll take care of any problems when we address the coating.

So, as Audios S6 suggested, my guess is that Tarminator might have loosened the already somewhat loose larger stones that were in the driveway and they completely dislodged when I was hosing down the driveway after the wash/cleaning.

Thanks all for the responses.