Can a foaming waterless wash handle dirtier cars than regular waterless wash?

[duffthebluff]

Hi everyone,

Are foaming waterless wash designed to be used for moderately dirty cars? I'm just curious what would be the benefit of using a foaming waterless wash compared to a non foaming one. Thanks!!

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I believe so. I feel the foam acts as a barrier between the dirt, towel and paint. Other than a bucket wash I feel it is safest method.

Larry from Ammo NyC has a video on his foaming waterless and he is cleaning NY winter dirty cars.


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[Azure]

I believe so. I feel the foam acts as a barrier between the dirt, towel and paint. Other than a bucket wash I feel it is safest method.

Larry from Ammo NyC has a video on his foaming waterless and he is cleaning NY winter dirty cars.


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I remember watching that video and being amazed that it didn't create oodles of scratches lol. Aside from Frothe being a good product, I think it's his technique that really helps.

 

[robwoodgto]

I am 100% sold on Waterless and Rinseless washes. I also believe product, towel, and technique makes the world of difference. With having stated this, the learning curve tells me you will scratch some paint until you find the product and towel that works the best on your paint, as well as you perfect your technique.

I like the following because it works for me:

Cobra Shine & Buff Waterless Wash Towel, 3 Pack

CarPro ECH2O Waterless Wash & Quick Detail Spray


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[Dredogol]

Hi everyone,
Are foaming waterless wash designed to be used for moderately dirty cars? I'm just curious what would be the benefit of using a foaming waterless wash compared to a non foaming one. Thanks!!

Define "moderately dirty"?

If it were me, if I saw any type of caked on dry dirt, I would try to spray those area with water first and try to loosen it before even attempting to touch it.
If I see a video of someone trying to demo their product on a really dirty car using waterless/rinseless washing... I would cringe and you can hear my teeth grinding in pain watching. :laughing:
If you are like me without access to running water... you can use a spray bottle, pressure sprayer, or watering can to get it wet.
Once it is loosened enough and washed off, then I would proceed with waterless/rinseless washing.

As for standard vs. foaming Waterless washing... IMHO I think they are the same.
It's all about the polymers able to emulsify and pull the dirt from the paint and wiping TECHNIQUE to prevent pushing it back on the paint while it clean it up.
I don't care how good the soap/foam/rinseless solution is... if you 'push' it into the paint, you'll scratch it.
Also... some clear coats are SOFTER than others (i.e. Japanese brands tend to have softer clear coat composition compared to US/European clear coats)

Now... unless the solution is stronger PH (alkaline), it will not break down oils from the paint; same holds true with traditional soap/foam cleaners.
PH neutral is for maintenance washes... not for paint/sealant prepping as it is not strong enough to break down those oils.
Then again... you don't want to use strong alkaline all the time as that will dry the clear coat over time.
Can't have the best of both worlds... compromises. :doh:

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

Define "moderately dirty"?

If it were me, if I saw any type of caked on dry dirt, I would try to spray those area with water first and try to loosen it before even attempting to touch it.
If I see a video of someone trying to demo their product on a really dirty car using waterless/rinseless washing... I would cringe and you can hear my teeth grinding in pain watching. :laughing:
If you are like me without access to running water... you can use a spray bottle, pressure sprayer, or watering can to get it wet.
Once it is loosened enough and washed off, then I would proceed with waterless/rinseless washing.

As for standard vs. foaming Waterless washing... IMHO I think they are the same.
It's all about the polymers able to emulsify and pull the dirt from the paint and wiping TECHNIQUE to prevent pushing it back on the paint while it clean it up.
I don't care how good the soap/foam/rinseless solution is... if you 'push' it into the paint, you'll scratch it.
Also... some clear coats are SOFTER than others (i.e. Japanese brands tend to have softer clear coat composition compared to US/European clear coats)

Now... unless the solution is stronger PH (alkaline), it will not break down oils from the paint; same holds true with traditional soap/foam cleaners.
PH neutral is for maintenance washes... not for paint/sealant prepping as it is not strong enough to break down those oils.
Then again... you don't want to use strong alkaline all the time as that will dry the clear coat over time.
Can't have the best of both worlds... compromises. :doh:

Have you tried a foaming waterless? If so which ones?

I’ve tried a few waterless’ and none compare to frothe. Now i’m sure the ingredients are as good but 100%,disagree about regular and foaming being the same.


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[Dredogol]

Have you tried a foaming waterless? If so which ones?

I’ve tried a few waterless’ and none compare to frothe. Now i’m sure the ingredients are as good but 100%,disagree about regular and foaming being the same.

I used AMMO Frothe from a friend (he loves Larry's products). I didn't have an aerated pump sprayer, so had to borrow his.
I personally wasn't a huge fan of it (being blown away).
I 'feels' like thin shaving cream when you're wiping and seems... messy? (yes, the product will evaporate)

The reason I say they're not very different is from how the products lifts the dirt and how you wipe it off.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

I used AMMO Frothe from a friend (he loves Larry's products). I didn't have an aerated pump sprayer, so had to borrow his.
I personally wasn't a huge fan of it (being blown away).
I 'feels' like thin shaving cream when you're wiping and seems... messy? (yes, the product will evaporate)

The reason I say they're not very different is from how the products lifts the dirt and how you wipe it off.

Makes sense. I feel foam clings to and penetrates dirt better. No proof but i feel as were wiping off the foam gives a thicker layer that traps the dirt in.

I have notice less marring in comparison on a pretty dirty black car. Wouldn’t normally clean this dirty of a car but wanted to give Frothe a test. Other used was N-914.

Technique was sound one side per swipe rolling the towel like larry show’s in his video’s.

Could been my brain seeing what it wanted to see and also even thow same panel no guarantee same contaminants l.

About Frothe felt that same messy issues when i first started.

Just use alot of towels and follow up panel with a drying towel and drying aid and all is gone.

The foam clinging in the cracks at first bothered my but then i realized i’m putting same liquid in there when doing waterless/rinseless and better a foam cling to surface and evaporate than running to where i can’t reach it at all.

And to note:

I don’t thing the foaming action cleans (breaks down emulsify dirt) better. I just think it clings better and encapsulates dirt better than liquid.

This and BB for light cleaning only products i foam any more.


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[vobro]

IMHO foam/suds catch dirt and is designed to be rinsed as in foam cannon. I’ve never tried the foamy waterless washes because I just think the foam catches some dirt and when performing the ww I would think that there could be risk. Been using rinseless wash for a long time now and it’s very effective for me

 

[bob m]

I'm always up for learning trying something new, if the reviews/opinions are good. But I'm not sure I like having to get another sprayer as well as what looks to be a messy endeavor. I'm not convinced that that foam does a better job in encapsulating the dirt than a good ww with all those emulsifiers. But I sure could be mistaken - as is often the case. I'd still jump on it in a heartbeat though if I just wasn't so happy with Ultima WW.

 

[Coatingsarecrack]

So my thinking is also with the texture. I get rinseless and waterless are supposed to encapsulate the dirt but if you have a solid particle i don’t get how the liquid can encapsulate it completely so no edge will contact the paint.

Think about rolling a marble in rinseless solution. it will be wet but how much solution encapsulates it?

Now roll that marble around in frothe and you’ll have it encapsulated with foam. Just seems like it will do a better job getting between paint and dirt.

I can rinseless with the best of them. My technique is sound as i research alot and use alot of towels.

Alot of you who’ve never used a foaming waterless are just speculating. Like those who talk down on coatings but never tried them.

Try it.... then you can knock it.

Also theirs always something better that eventually comes along.


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[psnt1ol]

So my thinking is also with the texture. I get rinseless and waterless are supposed to encapsulate the dirt but if you have a solid particle i don’t get how the liquid can encapsulate it completely so no edge will contact the paint.

Think about rolling a marble in rinseless solution. it will be wet but how much solution encapsulates it?

Now roll that marble around in frothe and you’ll have it encapsulated with foam. Just seems like it will do a better job getting between paint and dirt.

I can rinseless with the best of them. My technique is sound as i research alot and use alot of towels.

Alot of you who’ve never used a foaming waterless are just speculating. Like those who talk down on coatings but never tried them.

Try it.... then you can knock it.

Also theirs always something better that eventually comes along.


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I agree with you. A few years back, I was prepping a bucket solution of Meguire D114 to do a rinse less wash. I noticed that the solution would foamed when I introduced water to it via a pressure washer. So being like most members on this board... I did some experimentations. I mixed a heavier dilution solution and used it with a hand pump foamer. Here is what I found.

1. My garage floor was not as wet as if I used a traditional rinse less method.

2. A heavier dilution of D114 in a foamer would create a wet foam that would dwell on the panel much longer than the traditionally way which in turn increased its cleaning power.

3. Using the MF towels soaked in the same solution to wipe then follow by a clean one gave me the best results.

4. Its still not a replacement for a traditional wash when the vehicle is filthy.


Unfortunately....Meguire stop making D114 and I strictly use it now for my personal use with whatever I have left. Its was a good thing that I loaded up with it a few years back (bought a few gallons of it) and I really haven't anything thats similar to it since.