Can we cut the SiO2 coating nonsense out?

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nakranij

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I want to take a trip down memory lane for a moment to explain what I am asking.... A while back I had asked about Iron X...... A great product, but fairly pricey and the knock off products tend to be pricey also, mainly because of the top secret active ingredients that actually de-contaminate the iron from surfaces that is soo crazy expensive.

So SiO2 is the latest crazy and all the companies need to have their own version of an Si02 coating with lifespans anywhere frrom 6 months for really "cheap" stuff to 7-9 years for the really expensive stuff. What I want to know is if there is a scientific guide meaning..... how much Si02 per ml or oz or how everr it needs to be measured, is suitable for a specific duration or longevity of the product.

We need something like an independent testing lab for non-bias results. Do you get the knock off products off Amazon @ $20 a bottle or the $400 per bottle stuff that contains "magical" Si02 in it that lasts 9 years? Does it really last that long? And what about doing a coating of Si02, Waiting a month for it to cure and then applying a second coat? I am not looking for .....yeah it lasts longer. I want solid proof. Is the $49 bottle of Si02 as good as the $200 bottle? I'm not looking for company reps to throw sales pitches out. Prove it.

And come on.... there are probably 2 or maybe 3 companies that make Si02 world wide........ so some of the prices and advertisements are kind of funny.... it is all the same stuff re-branded.... or at least a few versions of the same stuff re-branded.
 
There are independant tests being run. Check youtube, this guy is on his third durability test. YouTube

The cheap stuff fared extremelly poorly. The stuff they sell on ebay doesn't even last as long as a sealant. The 2 years products seems to have durability ranging from 1 to 2 years so far.

The 5 years products have not yet failed after over 2 years as far as I know.

You do get what you pay for with these products. I think that 5 years products are the sweet spot. At some point you will want to polish the paint to remove micro scratches, and that process removes the coating. And I don't think you will want to wait 9 years to do this.
 
I have no proof of what you asking and maybe only a chemist in the industry may have the answer for you.

What I have understand from SiO2 is that's it's not so much of the SiO2 it self. But how you blend it with other chemicals such as carrier and other chemicals that makes the SiO2 part behave differently. A pure SiO2 layer won't be doing much on the paint. It's the reaction it has when applyied with the other chemicals in it. SiO2 on it self is not extremly hydrophobic or slick to the touch. So they mix it with another chemical to create a hydrophobic top layer and base layer when it's cures on the paint. And that's on molecules level this happens and atoms is released from the liquid and added by the air molecules to form a special behavior.

Then it's not only SiO2 based ceramic coatings out there. You have organic coatings and most that says nano coating is often not based on the SiO2 build up of protection.

The description of the amount of SiO2 in a bottle is pretty much useless to transfer to longevity from it on the paint. WOW 10% SiO2 in it than the more common 5% in SiO2 sealants. That's must get you the double longevity from it. Wrong. Look at the Polish Angel Rapidwaxx or Cosmic Spritz or Viking Spritz or High Gloss or even the QD Sprayduster. All of them have an amount of over 25% SiO2 at least in them. And they don't last as long as Gyeon CanCoat with 20-25% IIRC. In the chemical mix of PA products it's more like a little bit of product goes a long way with them. High Gloss has a wopping 85% of TiO2 in it and 5% SiO2 and is for maintance every month or every other month. As is the others too maintance in first place for PA different protection products. But can be used on their own. Then it's much about how you measure longevity. Is it how long you have a great behavior and protection from it or is it when it has worn off completly. This can also differs from brands but the later is what's useally noticed and claims.

I just think this is how these products is marketed to people. And pretty much every product claims it's the best product in it's range. Even from 2 products from the same brand and same range I have seen this LOL. That don't necessary says the products is bad in any way. It's just how marketing works and some make bold and untrue claims and some just hype up the product a little extra than it is. You don't see a product claim it's low quality and in the bottom of effectiveness in it's range. Some and very few just describes what you get from the product with no comparison with other products.

The SiO2 market is not black and white but has a wide range cause of the different uses and mixes. And it's not even a new thing either but have been used a long time as a base chemical in different kind of products. Also it's used widely in other industries as well as in medical products and food products and metall industry. So absolutely SiO2 is hyped in many cases but that don't make it bad products to use. I just notice that's based or have it in the product and then see how the product actually works for me.

And to do an iron removal on your paint you don't need to be useing a color changing iron remover. Acid based iron removers works as good as well. Just that you need to be casious to let get on the headlights and glass. So the color changing iron remover is a safer use and you can use it on most materials you have on the car. Not all though as it can stain some materials and even some paints as single stage paints. There it could even be a benefit with the iron removal with an acid based one as it's alse good to desolve oxidized paint too. Oxalic acid in powder form and dilute it 1:32 with distilled water and you have a very economical iron remover that you spray on.
 
•IMO:
-One quick way to “cut the SiO2 coating
nonsense out” is to go back to calling
them by what they are comprised of;
and/or, have been marketed as:

-Silicon (not silicone), Silica, Silicon Dioxide,
Quartz, Glass, Nano(es), Ceramics, etc.—all
interchangeable marketing terms—comes to mind.

In other words:
Why not add some more nonsense...

*************************************

•And let’s not forget the SiC Coatings category:
Pre-polymer, polymers, epoxy, etc.


[Oh yeah, (lest I be accused of being somewhat
lackadaisical) since I mentioned polymers:
Resins anyone?]


Bob
 
Calendyr said:
There are independant tests being run. Check youtube, this guy is on his third durability test. YouTube

The cheap stuff fared extremelly poorly. The stuff they sell on ebay doesn't even last as long as a sealant. The 2 years products seems to have durability ranging from 1 to 2 years so far.

The 5 years products have not yet failed after over 2 years as far as I know.

You do get what you pay for with these products. I think that 5 years products are the sweet spot. At some point you will want to polish the paint to remove micro scratches, and that process removes the coating. And I don't think you will want to wait 9 years to do this.
Click to expand...



Thanks for sharing the above.



:)
 
nakranij said:
Can we cut the SiO2 coating nonsense out?
Click to expand...


Completely understand your sentiment but there's a LOT of great SiO2 products out there>. Here's just one of my favorites. I use this on my personal cars. I've sent out dozens of FREE samples because I think it's so good and the feedback I get is always positive.


KILLER CAR WASH - Wolfgang Uber SiO2 Coating Wash



Here's my recommendation, because you're never going to get people do do what you want, do this instead,


Find something YOU like and use it often



:)
 
Coatings could be a little bit of nonsense but since I’ve been having more people want them on their cars, I have found the process of prepping and applying the coating is fun and rewarding, they might not last as long as they say but when you pull the car out of the shop/garage it’s pretty special


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
Dereksdtail said:
Coatings could be a little bit of nonsense but since I’ve been having more people want them on their cars, I have found the process of prepping and applying the coating is fun and rewarding, they might not last as long as they say but when you pull the car out of the shop/garage it’s pretty special


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
Click to expand...

When I pulled my cquk3.0 coated car out of garage could not stop staring...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dereksdtail said:
Coatings could be a little bit of nonsense but since I’ve been having more people want them on their cars, I have found the process of prepping and applying the coating is fun and rewarding, they might not last as long as they say but when you pull the car out of the shop/garage it’s pretty special
Click to expand...


I find the process longer and it also means bringing up your level of CARE as you chemically strip and then coat the car. This would also be after ALL the other steps, washing, claying, compounding and polishing, that's a lot of time and labor/energy. And if you get tired or are not careful when chemically stripping the paint you could put scratches back into the paint.

That said, here's a car I coated last Friday. These pictures taken with my Canon T6i






She came in dirty and contaminated, filled with light swirls and scratches everywhere.

She left looking like a liquid wet, polished gemstone.

Mazerati_0011.JPG


Mazerati_002.JPG


Mazerati_003.JPG


Mazerati_004.JPG


Mazerati_005.JPG


Mazerati_006.JPG


Mazerati_007.JPG


Mazerati_008.JPG


Mazerati_009.JPG


Mazerati_010.JPG





Paint sealed with Pinnacle Black Label Diamond Paint Coating

I think the results speak for the product....

Mazerati_011.JPG




All work performed using products from Pinnacle Black Label. The tool I used is the NEW CBEAST by FLEX.

Pads: I tested 3 different pads, the pads I went with were the B&S Uro-Tech 6" Dark Blue Heavy Polishing Foam Pad


Mazerati_012.JPG





The term I used to describe the results from a proper coating install is


GLASSY

Glassy is like a tick higher than glossy.



:)
 
This is another thread to ressurect my patent efforts for a LSP thickness gauge! : )
 
Mike, that blue looks amazing... glassy is a nice look. Is that 1 coat of PBL Paint, or 2 coats?
 
Is there a limit to how much SIO2 you can put into a coating where it would be to hard to work with as there is with carnauba wax?
 
Me Time said:
Is there a limit to how much SIO2 you can put into a coating where it would be to hard to work with as there is with carnauba wax?
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I would say "yes".

Here's my own saying for this type of questions, it's a small amount of comedy I share in my classes,




Most people think like this,

If a little is good, more is better.


That's true for my bank account and my gas tank

​


:laughing:



I'm sure a good chemist formulates accordingly.



:)
 
Mike Phillips said:
I would say "yes".

Here's my own saying for this type of questions, it's a small amount of comedy I share in my classes,




Most people think like this,

If a little is good, more is better.


That's true for my bank account and my gas tank

​


:laughing:



I'm sure a good chemist formulates accordingly.



:)
Click to expand...

I kind of figured that. As Nick calls it "the good stuff", you can only have so much.


And don't forget; Nacho's and Salsa!:hungry:
 
when the jobs get tougher I just turn the music up louder and enjoy the ride, it took me awhile to switch over to coatings but the difference between a aio and a coating finish, is worth some extra sweat and towelsand I still really enjoy aio jobs


Sent from my iPhone using AGOnline
 
Thanks for the information. I wouldn't think that a car wash with Si02 in it would last anywhere near what an "Applied" coating would. Is there any way to categorize which products work best for longer term solutions or ones that last a minimum of at least 2 years? I don't want to be doing this every car wash or 6 months and if customers ask me it would be good to know.
 
nakranij said:
Thanks for the information. I wouldn't think that a car wash with Si02 in it would last anywhere near what an "Applied" coating would. Is there any way to categorize which products work best for longer term solutions or ones that last a minimum of at least 2 years? I don't want to be doing this every car wash or 6 months and if customers ask me it would be good to know.
Click to expand...
The list you’re looking for would be “coatings”, and starting in the Coatings page on AG would be a start, then ignoring glass/wheel/tire/headlight coatings if you’re only looking for paint. You could then go to each coatings page and check out the advertised longevity. To find actual results of longevity which varies by environment and how Paint is touched, you will have to dig deeper, possibly exploring the land of YouTube for test cases.
 
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