Ceramic Coating Haze

[rover137]

I applied a ceramic coating yesterday which wasn’t the best experience in terms of application and user experience. Removal was very difficult.

Couldn’t pull it out to check for high spots due to weather. Using my hand light and I could see some ‘foggy’ spots.

Got it out this morning, maybe 18 hrs after application and in some spots there were ‘dark patches’. Im not sure if they were high spots or not as they looked different to other high spots I have seen before. Anyway, I read that applying some more coating on top could remove them. I did this and now I have this haze where I redid the coating. I have wiped and wiped and it just keeps return. I get that it is the coating rejecting itself, but I can’t remove it no matter what. I’ve tried a damp cloth and then dry buffing as well. I just don’t want it to ‘cure’ like this.

Any help, ideas and thoughts would be much appreciated and I am trying to fix this while I potentially still have time before it cures further. Thanks


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[glen e]

Which ceramic coating? Problems like this is why I don’t use coatings anymore…

 

[rover137]

Which ceramic coating? Problems like this is why I don’t use coatings anymore…

NV Evo - which is surprising as it is meant to be very easy to use.

After this I think I’m off coatings for good. The last two coatings a did were hassle free and turned out perfect *shrugs


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[Coatingsarecrack]

NV Evo - which is surprising as it is meant to be very easy to use.

After this I think I’m off coatings for good. The last two coatings a did were hassle free and turned out perfect *shrugs


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So why not just stick with those two coatings?

As for the haze i think you passed window when reapplying would help remove those spots. Once it sets in only a polish and recoat will fix.

Sorry for the issues. I have a bottle waiting to go on.


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[rover137]

So why not just stick with those two coatings?

As for the haze i think you passed window when reapplying would help remove those spots. Once it sets in only a polish and recoat will fix.

Sorry for the issues. I have a bottle waiting to go on.


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Trying something different I guess. As I was doing it I thought I had passed the window but gave it a shot anyway.

So does the haze just stay there forever if not polished out? I can wipe it away, and then a few seconds later it reappears. There were also areas that hazed on the day of application.

It does look amazing… apart from these few spots.


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[SWETM]

Can it be that you missed some areas with the ipa product wipe down? Or did you polish the car before you applied the coating?

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[rover137]

Can it be that you missed some areas with the ipa product wipe down? Or did you polish the car before you applied the coating?

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I polished before applying. I also washed with a pretty strong alkaline wash and then did panel a wipe before coating.

If I can at least fix the haze caused by reapplying the coating the day after that is something.


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[SWETM]

I polished before applying. I also washed a pretty strong alkaline wash and then did panel a wipe before coating.

If I can at least fix the haze caused by reapplying the coating the day after that is something.


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If you missed the window of the reapplication. The build up of the coating will get to thick and then it gets hazy sadly. For the best results polish or compound off the hazed spots and reapply. It depends on how many of these spots and where they are placed. If you can section them of by edges and bodylines. So you just do on the center of the hood for an example. The risk is that the edges of the application gets hazed again. Then it's the whole panel to reapply.

There is a thing that might work. I have not personally tested it and is just a thought of a solution I could be testing out and see what happens. So do it on your own risk LOL. Carpro Essence Plus and not the Primer. Is used to restore water behavior and gloss on old ceramic coatings with a Carpro Gloss pad. This combo over the spots that hazed might work to polish up. You can test if a finishing pad is not aggressive enough to test a medium cut polishing pad. It's a non abrasives Essence Plus so on a freshly applyied coating it should not remove it as it don't do on older and thinner ones. This is just a thought if you don't want to reapply larger panels or if it's many spots the whole coating being reapply after a polish. It maybe saves and maybe not. But Essence Plus is the only product I know of that you can be polishing and refreshing a ceramic coating with. Maybe it's worth it to you to try it out or maybe not. Just keep adding up products over the high spots is no solution I think. And go on for it with strong chemichals sounds not either good to me.

But it is strange if you have the time dialed in really well and not been applying to much for when you were leveling the coating. If you where methodical and the coating bottle is newly bought. I think it could be a batch problem as well. Have you had the bottle a long time? Say over a year. And if it gotten sun light on it. It can be somewhat cured in the bottle maybe. Just some thoughts.

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[rover137]

If you missed the window of the reapplication. The build up of the coating will get to thick and then it gets hazy sadly. For the best results polish or compound off the hazed spots and reapply. It depends on how many of these spots and where they are placed. If you can section them of by edges and bodylines. So you just do on the center of the hood for an example. The risk is that the edges of the application gets hazed again. Then it's the whole panel to reapply.

There is a thing that might work. I have not personally tested it and is just a thought of a solution I could be testing out and see what happens. So do it on your own risk LOL. Carpro Essence Plus and not the Primer. Is used to restore water behavior and gloss on old ceramic coatings with a Carpro Gloss pad. This combo over the spots that hazed might work to polish up. You can test if a finishing pad is not aggressive enough to test a medium cut polishing pad. It's a non abrasives Essence Plus so on a freshly applyied coating it should not remove it as it don't do on older and thinner ones. This is just a thought if you don't want to reapply larger panels or if it's many spots the whole coating being reapply after a polish. It maybe saves and maybe not. But Essence Plus is the only product I know of that you can be polishing and refreshing a ceramic coating with. Maybe it's worth it to you to try it out or maybe not. Just keep adding up products over the high spots is no solution I think. And go on for it with strong chemichals sounds not either good to me.

But it is strange if you have the time dialed in really well and not been applying to much for when you were leveling the coating. If you where methodical and the coating bottle is newly bought. I think it could be a batch problem as well. Have you had the bottle a long time? Say over a year. And if it gotten sun light on it. It can be somewhat cured in the bottle maybe. Just some thoughts.

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Thanks for the detailed response. That is the annoying thing. I reapplied the coating maybe 14-16 hrs later and thought maybe I’d be within the window. I did it to 2 places, one being a rear panel crossing over into a rear door and slight crossing into a rear boot panel and the other being on the very edge of the hood. This hood one is what annoys me the most as the hood is perfect in terms of correction and coating and now I have a 3-4 inch strip I reapplied it to right on the very edge. This also overlaps onto a quarter panel and front door. This would be hard to work out a way to polish and reapply just that strip and the rear panel as well as the other panels that have slight overlap. I could tape off, but then as you say I run the risk of applying it again over an area that I didn’t re-polish and then I have a hazey spot again.

The other parts that were hazey after the initial application are all in random spots. These would
also be hard to separate. The roof , hood (apart front that strip!) and rear (apart from slight cross over) are all pretty good. So maybe the sides need redoing. It is disheartening as I’ve spent 30hrs on this and took time off work and all that. But again, how I make sure not to recoat other areas I’m not sure. For these other hazey areas that happened during initial coating I am wondering if there was some residual coating from the previous application left over. This hazing is very fine and barely visible.

I have actually thought about Essence Plus. I have thought maybe I just hand polish a few areas.. but as you say it is risky and I’d hate to jeopardize an otherwise good job. I don’t know if this replaces the coating with its own inferior properties.

I felt like I was meticulous and did all my research, I tried various wipe off times, I was indoors, temperature was good, I used good
towels and lots of them rotating often…but I am questioning my methods now. It is pretty disheartening. This is the first time I’ve made a mistake really since taking up this hobby. I’ve had the bottle for maybe 3 months and stored it in the house in a dark closet to try and preserve it. Wipe off was very tough and one layer took me
5ish hours just to do just the paint!


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[SWETM]

Thanks for the detailed response. That is the annoying thing. I reapplied the coating maybe 14-16 hrs later and thought maybe I’d be within the window. I did it to 2 places, one being a rear panel crossing over into a rear door and slight crossing into a rear boot panel and the other being on the very edge of the hood. This hood one is what annoys me the most as the hood is perfect in terms of correction and coating and now I have a 3-4 inch strip I reapplied it to right on the very edge. This also overlaps onto a quarter panel and front door. This would be hard to work out a way to polish and reapply just that strip and the rear panel as well as the other panels that have slight overlap. I could tape off, but then as you say I run the risk of applying it again over an area that I didn’t re-polish and then I have a hazey spot again.

The other parts that were hazey after the initial application are all in random spots. These would
also be hard to separate. The roof , hood (apart front that strip!) and rear (apart from slight cross over) are all pretty good. So maybe the sides need redoing. It is disheartening as I’ve spent 30hrs on this and took time off work and all that. But again, how I make sure not to recoat other areas I’m not sure. For these other hazey areas that happened during initial coating I am wondering if there was some residual coating from the previous application left over. This hazing is very fine and barely visible.

I have actually thought about Essence Plus. I have thought maybe I just hand polish a few areas.. but as you say it is risky and I’d hate to jeopardize an otherwise good job. I don’t know if this replaces the coating with its own inferior properties.

I felt like I was meticulous and did all my research, I tried various wipe off times, I was indoors, temperature was good, I used good
towels and lots of them rotating often…but I am questioning my methods now. It is pretty disheartening. This is the first time I’ve made a mistake really since taking up this hobby. I’ve had the bottle for maybe 3 months and stored it in the house in a dark closet to try and preserve it. Wipe off was very tough and one layer took me
5ish hours just to do just the paint!


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Ooh man I feel with you. It's so frustrateing when it goes wrong and especially when you can not exactly pinpoint the problem.

Have you watched Sandro at Car Craft Detailing Chanel? He's very involved with NV car care. He's also a certified installer of Carpro. Maybe ask under a video of his with this coating in it or maybe he got Facebook or Instagram so you can pm him with a question to him.

You said it where a bad wheather outside. Did you have your garage door open to the outside for some time? SiO2 is very strange with humidity being changed. It's often used as a dryer. If you know of those little bags that is in shoes boxes. That's silica(SiO2) in that bag and soak up any humidity that creates in there so it don't get mold and such or a bad odour from the packeging. So imagine if you let in high humid air inside. And this is no wrong as would want fresh air when you are ceramic coating a vehical. But the risk is it draws water in the coating and it will taking longer or shorter time to flash or cure. That's also why you must store a freshly coated vehical inside for 24h at almost every coating with a few exeptions. If you can count this out. Have it in mind in the future.

Man you have gotten the haze on the worst places and on a lot of the panels. I don't honestly know what I self would be doing. If you have a 3" polisher Carpro has 3" Gloss Pads as well. You will not remove the coating if you wait until a week has passed or when it's safe to be washing the car again. At this point it will not be doing any damages to your paint. But your eyes and mind will be taking a hit. Sorry for the joke. But it's for basicly refresh the top of the ceramic coating and not remove it Carpro Essence Plus. With the Gloss Pad from them you have the safe combo to be useing on it. If it's to much coating left/high spot then it's maybe not enough to polish it down to a level where it is. If it's a high spot you have a really high amount of cured coating on the spot. So that's why I think it could work with this some way. Cause I think that you have plans on useing toppers or/and drying aids and such. And Essence Plus leaves you a 6 month durability on it's own usually. So if it's looking good or acceptable for you when you test it out first on the least noticeble place. And even wait a few days after testing it out. So if it's working when doing it and see if it's holding up after a day or a couple of them.

I hope some others chaims in and maybe have some other thoughts that don't include doing it all again. And man I'm sorry for your experience with this after everything you put in to get it done. Do you have an option to have a light on a hazed spot and take a picture of it share it. Maybe someone has had the same experience as you. And can help out maybe. Easier if you can see it to recognice it. Sorry for some spelling. I'm from Sweden so english is not my native language. Feeled so bad for your experience with this. So maybe discussion can help you get to do what you want to be doing with it or test something that may work. The hard answer is to just polish off the coating and apply again. But I know the work you have put in. Maybe it's some old coating left or something other dirt inbedded in the paint where you have that hazed parts. But I don't think so. Though it's easy to miss parts to polish and with the wipe off for everyone. But it's on so many places and you have done this before. I think that the coating cured to much before you applyied it again. Then it's strange that you struggled so much with applying it as 5h is a long time. I will look at a video with Sandro from CCAD and see the process with the NV coating. And see if it's something in his video about it.

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[The Guz]

Sounds like it’s time to polish those panels and recoat.

 

[rover137]

Ooh man I feel with you. It's so frustrateing when it goes wrong and especially when you can not exactly pinpoint the problem.

Have you watched Sandro at Car Craft Detailing Chanel? He's very involved with NV car care. He's also a certified installer of Carpro. Maybe ask under a video of his with this coating in it or maybe he got Facebook or Instagram so you can pm him with a question to him.

You said it where a bad wheather outside. Did you have your garage door open to the outside for some time? SiO2 is very strange with humidity being changed. It's often used as a dryer. If you know of those little bags that is in shoes boxes. That's silica(SiO2) in that bag and soak up any humidity that creates in there so it don't get mold and such or a bad odour from the packeging. So imagine if you let in high humid air inside. And this is no wrong as would want fresh air when you are ceramic coating a vehical. But the risk is it draws water in the coating and it will taking longer or shorter time to flash or cure. That's also why you must store a freshly coated vehical inside for 24h at almost every coating with a few exeptions. If you can count this out. Have it in mind in the future.

Man you have gotten the haze on the worst places and on a lot of the panels. I don't honestly know what I self would be doing. If you have a 3" polisher Carpro has 3" Gloss Pads as well. You will not remove the coating if you wait until a week has passed or when it's safe to be washing the car again. At this point it will not be doing any damages to your paint. But your eyes and mind will be taking a hit. Sorry for the joke. But it's for basicly refresh the top of the ceramic coating and not remove it Carpro Essence Plus. With the Gloss Pad from them you have the safe combo to be useing on it. If it's to much coating left/high spot then it's maybe not enough to polish it down to a level where it is. If it's a high spot you have a really high amount of cured coating on the spot. So that's why I think it could work with this some way. Cause I think that you have plans on useing toppers or/and drying aids and such. And Essence Plus leaves you a 6 month durability on it's own usually. So if it's looking good or acceptable for you when you test it out first on the least noticeble place. And even wait a few days after testing it out. So if it's working when doing it and see if it's holding up after a day or a couple of them.

I hope some others chaims in and maybe have some other thoughts that don't include doing it all again. And man I'm sorry for your experience with this after everything you put in to get it done. Do you have an option to have a light on a hazed spot and take a picture of it share it. Maybe someone has had the same experience as you. And can help out maybe. Easier if you can see it to recognice it. Sorry for some spelling. I'm from Sweden so english is not my native language. Feeled so bad for your experience with this. So maybe discussion can help you get to do what you want to be doing with it or test something that may work. The hard answer is to just polish off the coating and apply again. But I know the work you have put in. Maybe it's some old coating left or something other dirt inbedded in the paint where you have that hazed parts. But I don't think so. Though it's easy to miss parts to polish and with the wipe off for everyone. But it's on so many places and you have done this before. I think that the coating cured to much before you applyied it again. Then it's strange that you struggled so much with applying it as 5h is a long time. I will look at a video with Sandro from CCAD and see the process with the NV coating. And see if it's something in his video about it.

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Very very frustrating. I’m a bit lost with what to do and think this will be my last coating and perhaps I won’t obsess over having perfect paint anymore. Yeah I have watched all of Sandro’s videos and I asked around to get good advice before applying. It is an easy coating apparently so either it is a bad batch or I did something terribly wrong. I usually produce good results.

I did have the garage door closed so that dust didn’t float in, but at times I would open it and leave it open for a bit to get some air in. It did feel humid but I was also stressed as things weren’t going right. I have a gauge and it was 20 degrees Celsius in the garage.

I’m tempted to just go and hand polish some the two areas I reapplied and see what happens. I feel like I don’t have much to lose at this point. As you’ve said, as you’ve said the haze is in some bad parts and fixing it would probably mean redoing everything. I can’t get a good photo of it but it’s like a fog - almost like a wax that hasn’t been buffed. It goes away for a few seconds when wiped, but then comes straight back. I thought my process was pretty thorough, but I guess anything could have happened and went wrong. It seemed to be very difficult to level down no matter what I tried.

Thanks for responding and for your help - much appreciated.


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[rover137]

Sounds like it’s time to polish those panels and recoat.

I don’t know how to recoat without risking getting more ‘reapplication’ on adjacent panels and causing more haze. Taping off is what I’m thinking.

I’d basically have to polish everything but the roof.


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[opie2]

I don’t know how to recoat without risking getting more ‘reapplication’ on adjacent panels and causing more haze. Taping off is what I’m thinking.

I’d basically have to polish everything but the roof.


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I 2nd what the guz says.

At this point the coating is cured enough that you can polish and recoat the area without any issue

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[Coatingsarecrack]

Thanks for the detailed response. That is the annoying thing. I reapplied the coating maybe 14-16 hrs later and thought maybe I’d be within the window. I did it to 2 places, one being a rear panel crossing over into a rear door and slight crossing into a rear boot panel and the other being on the very edge of the hood. This hood one is what annoys me the most as the hood is perfect in terms of correction and coating and now I have a 3-4 inch strip I reapplied it to right on the very edge. This also overlaps onto a quarter panel and front door. This would be hard to work out a way to polish and reapply just that strip and the rear panel as well as the other panels that have slight overlap. I could tape off, but then as you say I run the risk of applying it again over an area that I didn’t re-polish and then I have a hazey spot again.

The other parts that were hazey after the initial application are all in random spots. These would
also be hard to separate. The roof , hood (apart front that strip!) and rear (apart from slight cross over) are all pretty good. So maybe the sides need redoing. It is disheartening as I’ve spent 30hrs on this and took time off work and all that. But again, how I make sure not to recoat other areas I’m not sure. For these other hazey areas that happened during initial coating I am wondering if there was some residual coating from the previous application left over. This hazing is very fine and barely visible.

I have actually thought about Essence Plus. I have thought maybe I just hand polish a few areas.. but as you say it is risky and I’d hate to jeopardize an otherwise good job. I don’t know if this replaces the coating with its own inferior properties.

I felt like I was meticulous and did all my research, I tried various wipe off times, I was indoors, temperature was good, I used good
towels and lots of them rotating often…but I am questioning my methods now. It is pretty disheartening. This is the first time I’ve made a mistake really since taking up this hobby. I’ve had the bottle for maybe 3 months and stored it in the house in a dark closet to try and preserve it. Wipe off was very tough and one layer took me
5ish hours just to do just the paint!


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Seems like you have issues at the edges. I had similar issue last time i did CqUk3. A good pro tip I picked up was to remove/ wipe outside in.

Also when i just tried recoating those spots i could definitely see where i had worked. I ended up recoating whole panel.

If would email where you perchased and see if spot coating is OK or should you recoat whole panel.


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[Forty]

Sorry to hear of issues your having. If you want to try a different coating your bad experience, try the new Gyeon EVO coatings. I applied Dr Beasley’s NSP 45 and straight to Gyeon Pure evo. No panel wipe needed as NSP 45 is a primer. Application and wipe off was very easy. Took me hour and a half to fully coat and wipe off. Mike G ( The guz) has a YouTube video showing this process. These coatings are very user friendly, good luck.

 

[noorth]

I've used Nv EVO and it was easy to work with in my experience. But you have to work quickly, no 3-5 minutes sitting on the panel before wipe off. I did use a microfiber applicator however those suede blocks are horrible in my opinion, i really don't understand why so many coating companies include them in their kits. For instance, Gyeon seems to be one of the first big brands, here at least, that have finally smarter up and put microfiber applicators in their kits.

And yes get some painter's tape and tape off the sections to re-polish, you have nothing to lose. Its actually how i coated my car in sections over multiple days.

I removed c.quartz UK on my truck lid one time with the rupes yellow foam, 3D one and a 15mm DA on speed 4.5 in no time. It was about 2 days old with all kinds of high spots due mostly to those horrible suede cloths, i never used them again.

I would like to give credit to Phil of the Miranda detailing channel for putting me onto microfiber applicators for coatings, it really is a night and day difference. I'm actually surprised it doesn't come up more on the forums.

 

[rover137]

Seems like you have issues at the edges. I had similar issue last time i did CqUk3. A good pro tip I picked up was to remove/ wipe outside in.

Also when i just tried recoating those spots i could definitely see where i had worked. I ended up recoating whole panel.

If would email where you perchased and see if spot coating is OK or should you recoat whole panel.


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I’ve never had issues with edges before with coatings. I have always been told to wipe within your square with the first towel and then use your second towel to blend the edges in. Thanks for tip, might try this if I end up redoing it. Part of me
Just wants to leave it and move on.

How many panels did you have to recoat? I’m afraid I would nearly have to recoat the entire car if that is the case.


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[rover137]

Sorry to hear of issues your having. If you want to try a different coating your bad experience, try the new Gyeon EVO coatings. I applied Dr Beasley’s NSP 45 and straight to Gyeon Pure evo. No panel wipe needed as NSP 45 is a primer. Application and wipe off was very easy. Took me hour and a half to fully coat and wipe off. Mike G ( The guz) has a YouTube video showing this process. These coatings are very user friendly, good luck.

I’ve been looking at the new Gyeon coatings and they do look good. That’s a very quick application. How long to polish the car?


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[rover137]

I've used Nv EVO and it was easy to work with in my experience. But you have to work quickly, no 3-5 minutes sitting on the panel before wipe off. I did use a microfiber applicator however those suede blocks are horrible in my opinion, i really don't understand why so many coating companies include them in their kits. For instance, Gyeon seems to be one of the first big brands, here at least, that have finally smarter up and put microfiber applicators in their kits.

And yes get some painter's tape and tape off the sections to re-polish, you have nothing to lose. Its actually how i coated my car in sections over multiple days.

I removed c.quartz UK on my truck lid one time with the rupes yellow foam, 3D one and a 15mm DA on speed 4.5 in no time. It was about 2 days old with all kinds of high spots due mostly to those horrible suede cloths, i never used them again.

I would like to give credit to Phil of the Miranda detailing channel for putting me onto microfiber applicators for coatings, it really is a night and day difference. I'm actually surprised it doesn't come up more on the forums.

That is what I was expecting as well but it was so difficult to level for whatever reason. I spoke to a rep as before applying and was told to wait 90 seconds to start with and play around from there. I even tried immediate wipe off and it was just so difficult still. I used a microfibre applicator as well as this is what I have always used with coatings and don’t know any different.

What sections did you tape off? Did you go panel by panel? Mine are in random areas and nearly every panel would need to be touched other then the roof. How long did it take you to remove from your trunk and how many passes? I have Orange SDOs which are similar to the Rupes yellow and I have Scholl S20 which is similar to 3D One I think.


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