Ceramic Coating - Maintenance Polish ?

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TBrio

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I had ceramic coating done on my car 3 years ago. It started failing on the bottom half of the car and back (not sure if the back is due to airflow when driving) a year and a half after it was done. It's totally my fault for not notifying the installer at the time these issues arose, but due to some personal reasons, the ceramic coating was the least of my concerns at that time! I called the installer yesterday who recommended bringing it in for a ceramic maintenance polish for $550 (for a Porsche Cayenne).

I take good care of my car - it's garaged, only ever hand washed, it's 4 years old and only has 11,000 miles, is taken in for decontamination wash 1-2x/year, etc. However, since I live in the Seattle are, it gets rained on A LOT and I'll admit that I'm not the best at cleaning it and it does sometimes sit for a month or two with the dirt from the rainy roads.

Should the ceramic coating have lasted longer? Or, can the timeframe be affected by letting the dirt sit on it?

Will the maintenance polish make a difference?

I hate to put additional $ into the coating if it's not going to last another 2 years (installer said the coating I purchased should last around 5 years total). I'm also hoping going to the original installer will allow him the chance to see where the coating is failing and perhaps fix the issue beyond just doing the polish if he thinks it is failing for other reasons.

This is my first experience doing a coating so just wanting to get your experience and feedback on this situation.
 
Should the ceramic coating have lasted longer? Or, can the timeframe be affected by letting the dirt sit on it?
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There are MANY variables that play a part in the longevity of a ceramic coating. But it should be no surprise that maintenance is the KEY. If the paint surface is not properly taken care of on a regular basis then durability can be compromised.

Does leaving the surface dirty for an extended period affect it? Yes but typically it can be "rejuvenated" with a decon wash.

I'm surprised your "installer" didn't opt for this rather than jumping to an expensive service which may not even be necessary. I suppose in all fairness, getting 3 years out of your coating is quite good even if its labeled as a 5 year (given the circumstances).


Will the maintenance polish make a difference?
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That depends: what does this mean exactly? Is he polishing the entire vehicle or just the troubled areas?? Is he polishing off the old and adding a new layer of coating? If that's the case, then of course, you'll have a fresh new coating. But what about the rest of the vehicle (if he is just polishing the trouble areas)? You'll have 3 year coated areas and new coated areas??

I encourage you to learn how to do this stuff yourself. You can save a LOT of money and also have peace of mind that its done right.


I live in the Seattle are, it gets rained on A LOT and I'll admit that I'm not the best at cleaning it
Click to expand...

Please elaborate. Car washing is quite simple if you have the right tools, rights producst and are applying the correct method and practice.
 
Agree, three years is the high end of most coatings lifespan. I've gone 3.5-ish and it was certianly time to recoat the vehicle.

Also agree on a decon wash with something like CarPro Reset, Descale, or Lift (?). I've also found consistently washing with a really good soap also can diminish or eliminate the need to doing a decon wash. I've been using Meguiars Hyperwash and it seems to be strong enough to keep the coatings from getting too grimy. This doesn't mean you have to wash it religiously every weekend. I wash when able and when the car needs it. This usually averages out to every 2~3 weeks in the warm months. In the winter that can stretch to 6 weeks or longer between touchless car washes.

I'm curious about what a "maintenance polish" means too. Polishing normally removes the coating.
 
evo77 said:
I'm surprised your "installer" didn't opt for this rather than jumping to an expensive service which may not even be necessary. I suppose in all fairness, getting 3 years out of your coating is quite good even if it’s labeled as a 5 year (given the circumstances).
Click to expand...

He did state he takes in for Decontamination washes 1-2 times a year.


Being garaged and less than 3k miles seems short lived if it was supposed to get 5 years but a lot of “5 year” coatings from pro’s mean you need to do maintenance and that sometimes include top ups

I would definitely ask what was done in the Decon wash. I would also look into Labocosmetica 3ph Wash. it is triple wash starting with an Alklaine, then an Acid then a PH 7 wash.

If he’s using this kind of decon wash then I would ask questions about this “ceramic maintenance polish”

Every coating I know of is removed by polishing so my guess is quick decon wash, clay, light polish and then a new layer of the coating.

If this is needed I would ask for a deal for it failing with it being garaged and 3k miles per year….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
evo77 said:
There are MANY variables that play a part in the longevity of a ceramic coating. But it should be no surprise that maintenance is the KEY. If the paint surface is not properly taken care of on a regular basis then durability can be compromised.

Does leaving the surface dirty for an extended period affect it? Yes but typically it can be "rejuvenated" with a decon wash.

I'm surprised your "installer" didn't opt for this rather than jumping to an expensive service which may not even be necessary. I suppose in all fairness, getting 3 years out of your coating is quite good even if its labeled as a 5 year (given the circumstances).




That depends: what does this mean exactly? Is he polishing the entire vehicle or just the troubled areas?? Is he polishing off the old and adding a new layer of coating? If that's the case, then of course, you'll have a fresh new coating. But what about the rest of the vehicle (if he is just polishing the trouble areas)? You'll have 3 year coated areas and new coated areas??

I encourage you to learn how to do this stuff yourself. You can save a LOT of money and also have peace of mind that its done right.




Please elaborate. Car washing is quite simple if you have the right tools, rights producst and are applying the correct method and practice.
Click to expand...

I've taken it to them 1-2 times a year at their "express" detailing location for the decon wash and told them this when I called yesterday. I think that's why they recommended the polish?

I found some more information on their website regarding the polish. I'm a total newbie when it comes to anything car related. This is my first new car, let alone first nice car (Porsche Cayenne).

Ceramic Maintenance Polish
The perfect way to maintain or enhance your ceramic coated vehicle. We start with a thorough cleaning and decontamination of your vehicle’s paint to remove stubborn iron deposits from brake dust, road tar and environmental contaminants. Next we perform a professional polish using Essence Plus. Essence Plus is the first non-abrasive solution to partially repair fine swirls, increasing gloss with it’s distinct blend of ceramic coat repair agents, high gloss quartz resins and hydrophobic nanoparticles. This is a great once a year service on ceramic coated vehicles. *We can also perform this service on non ceramic coated vehicles if you are prepping a car for sale or long term protection is not necessary.

Includes:



Foam Bath Pre-Soak
Gentle 2 Bucket Hand Wash
Clean Wheels
Clean Door Jambs
Paint Decontamination w/Iron Remover
Paint Decontamination w/Tar Remover
Mask Trim
Gloss Enhancement Polish w/Essence Plus
Polish Exhaust Tips
Tire Dressing
Courtesy Vacuum and Windows


Not to say that females can't be good at this stuff, but I'm definitely not one that's naturally inclined at any of this type of work, so would rather pay for someone to do it if that makes sense! I'm not a very good do-it-yourself person and would most likely make it worse haha.

However, I would love recommendations/tips on products I should buy and methods I should use for being able to wash the car myself (I've been taking it to their express service for this, but spend hundreds of dollars each time). When I said I'm not the best at cleaning it, I meant that I probably am not washing it as often as it should be since I am driving it 20 minutes each way to get washed. Here's hoping I can at least handle car washing!
 
Desertnate said:
Agree, three years is the high end of most coatings lifespan. I've gone 3.5-ish and it was certianly time to recoat the vehicle.

Also agree on a decon wash with something like CarPro Reset, Descale, or Lift (?). I've also found consistently washing with a really good soap also can diminish or eliminate the need to doing a decon wash. I've been using Meguiars Hyperwash and it seems to be strong enough to keep the coatings from getting too grimy. This doesn't mean you have to wash it religiously every weekend. I wash when able and when the car needs it. This usually averages out to every 2~3 weeks in the warm months. In the winter that can stretch to 6 weeks or longer between touchless car washes.

I'm curious about what a "maintenance polish" means too. Polishing normally removes the coating.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input! I noticed the coating starting to fail around 1.5 years. I've taken it in for a decon wash 1-2 times every year.

Here's more details on what their maintenance polish entails per their website:

The perfect way to maintain or enhance your ceramic coated vehicle. We start with a thorough cleaning and decontamination of your vehicle’s paint to remove stubborn iron deposits from brake dust, road tar and environmental contaminants. Next we perform a professional polish using Essence Plus. Essence Plus is the first non-abrasive solution to partially repair fine swirls, increasing gloss with it’s distinct blend of ceramic coat repair agents, high gloss quartz resins and hydrophobic nanoparticles. This is a great once a year service on ceramic coated vehicles. *We can also perform this service on non ceramic coated vehicles if you are prepping a car for sale or long term protection is not necessary.

Includes:



  • Foam Bath Pre-Soak
  • Gentle 2 Bucket Hand Wash
  • Clean Wheels
  • Clean Door Jambs
  • Paint Decontamination w/Iron Remover
  • Paint Decontamination w/Tar Remover
  • Mask Trim
  • Gloss Enhancement Polish w/Essence Plus
  • Polish Exhaust Tips
  • Tire Dressing
    [*=left]Courtesy Vacuum and Windows


​
 
Imo, you need to first get a good wash routine/products and set yourself up for maintaning the car by washing it more regularly yourself.

Maintanence is key for a coating to succeed.

If you are not able to do that then you are effectively wasting your money.

At 3.5 years after coating application, personally i would weigh out the options. Will essence plus get me another 1.5 years for $550? Or what is the cost for a light polish and new coating application?

But all this is mute if you do not get yourself setup to maintain it yourself OR have someone else do it a couple times a month bare minimum.

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Setec Astronomy said:
That's why I was asking what the coating was, if it was some super coating that can be polished.
Click to expand...

It's CQuartz Finest Reserve.

This is what's described under their ceramic maintenance polish:

The perfect way to maintain or enhance your ceramic coated vehicle. We start with a thorough cleaning and decontamination of your vehicle’s paint to remove stubborn iron deposits from brake dust, road tar and environmental contaminants. Next we perform a professional polish using Essence Plus. Essence Plus is the first non-abrasive solution to partially repair fine swirls, increasing gloss with it’s distinct blend of ceramic coat repair agents, high gloss quartz resins and hydrophobic nanoparticles. This is a great once a year service on ceramic coated vehicles. *We can also perform this service on non ceramic coated vehicles if you are prepping a car for sale or long term protection is not necessary.

Includes:



Foam Bath Pre-Soak
Gentle 2 Bucket Hand Wash
Clean Wheels
Clean Door Jambs
Paint Decontamination w/Iron Remover
Paint Decontamination w/Tar Remover
Mask Trim
Gloss Enhancement Polish w/Essence Plus
Polish Exhaust Tips
Tire Dressing
Courtesy Vacuum and Windows
 
Coatingsarecrack said:
He did state he takes in for Decontamination washes 1-2 times a year.


Being garaged and less than 3k miles seems short lived if it was supposed to get 5 years but a lot of “5 year” coatings from pro’s mean you need to do maintenance and that sometimes include top ups

I would definitely ask what was done in the Decon wash. I would also look into Labocosmetica 3ph Wash. it is triple wash starting with an Alklaine, then an Acid then a PH 7 wash.

If he’s using this kind of decon wash then I would ask questions about this “ceramic maintenance polish”

Every coating I know of is removed by polishing so my guess is quick decon wash, clay, light polish and then a new layer of the coating.

If this is needed I would ask for a deal for it failing with it being garaged and 3k miles per year….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

This is what's under the Ceramic Maintenance Polish:

The perfect way to maintain or enhance your ceramic coated vehicle. We start with a thorough cleaning and decontamination of your vehicle’s paint to remove stubborn iron deposits from brake dust, road tar and environmental contaminants. Next we perform a professional polish using Essence Plus. Essence Plus is the first non-abrasive solution to partially repair fine swirls, increasing gloss with it’s distinct blend of ceramic coat repair agents, high gloss quartz resins and hydrophobic nanoparticles. This is a great once a year service on ceramic coated vehicles. *We can also perform this service on non ceramic coated vehicles if you are prepping a car for sale or long term protection is not necessary.

Includes:



Foam Bath Pre-Soak
Gentle 2 Bucket Hand Wash
Clean Wheels
Clean Door Jambs
Paint Decontamination w/Iron Remover
Paint Decontamination w/Tar Remover
Mask Trim
Gloss Enhancement Polish w/Essence Plus
Polish Exhaust Tips
Tire Dressing
Courtesy Vacuum and Windows

The decon wash I've been getting has this info on their website:

Decontamination Ceramic Wash is the preferred and recommended maintenance service for ceramic coated vehicles. Using products specially formulated for ceramic coatings allowing for a non abrasive removal of light pitch and road tar. Recommended every 2-3 months.
Pre-Foam Bath
Gentle two bucket hand wash using CarPro Reset
CarPro Iron X Decontamination
CarPro Tar X Decontamination
CarPro Hydro 2 Sealant
Clean Wheels
Dry Paint
Dry Door Jambs
Tire Dressing
 
There’s a small chance the hydro 2 could be “clogging” your coating. There decon wash seems to not attack the road film. Nothing they stated would do that.

I would personally before anything else order Labocosmetica 3 PH wash… watch the video and do it. I would also use iron x.

I don’t think Essence plus will revitalize your coating. If you read reviews it’s not a good beader but my thinking is that even though not mentioned the will be topping your coating.

Also to be honest I would not pay for there decon wash. Only thing there doing extra is treating your car with iron X and Tar X. You could do that in your normal wash.

Also after reading polish description it says nothing about bringing back beading. Says will fix swirls and restore gloss. I’ve read that it will not remove coating so maybe it will bring back….. still try a 3 ph wash first.

$550 to restore…. How much ch did it cost to coat?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TBrio said:
I had ceramic coating done on my car 3 years ago. It started failing on the bottom half of the car and back (not sure if the back is due to airflow when driving) a year and a half after it was done. It's totally my fault for not notifying the installer at the time these issues arose, but due to some personal reasons, the ceramic coating was the least of my concerns at that time! I called the installer yesterday who recommended bringing it in for a ceramic maintenance polish for $550 (for a Porsche Cayenne).

I take good care of my car - it's garaged, only ever hand washed, it's 4 years old and only has 11,000 miles, is taken in for decontamination wash 1-2x/year, etc. However, since I live in the Seattle are, it gets rained on A LOT and I'll admit that I'm not the best at cleaning it and it does sometimes sit for a month or two with the dirt from the rainy roads.

Should the ceramic coating have lasted longer? Or, can the timeframe be affected by letting the dirt sit on it?

Will the maintenance polish make a difference?

I hate to put additional $ into the coating if it's not going to last another 2 years (installer said the coating I purchased should last around 5 years total). I'm also hoping going to the original installer will allow him the chance to see where the coating is failing and perhaps fix the issue beyond just doing the polish if he thinks it is failing for other reasons.

This is my first experience doing a coating, so just wanted to get your experience and feedback on this situation.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily for this instance, but I think it's a mistake when detailers and manufacturers use primarily years to describe longevity. Miles matter more than years as coatings tend to wear down from abrasion as well as exposure to the elements. I also don't buy into them lasting more than 2-3 years. I market no more than 3 years or 36k when I work with people on my offerings. There are lots of variables involved, so i won't digress more here.

I'm also NOT a fan AT ALL of CarPro Essence Plus. I've used it and tested it and feel it's complete garbage. Any use of a polisher over a coating, even with that product, isn't going to yield a longer life. Even when applied by hand, that product never produced anywhere near acceptable results for me. Again, my opinion and experience with it, having tested it on my own vehicle back in the day. If they used that within their process once or twice per year on yours, then I'm not at all surprised as your results.

To answer your question, yes, it should have lasted longer, and in my experience, it would have if all that was done was a basic wash and decon. Rain and road debris will degrade the sides of the course as I've noted above, it's abrasion. However, in 11k miles.....no. Rain and dirt being left on for 1-2 months....yeah, not great, but all that's really going to do is bond a road film and some ferrous particles to the surface/coating. Yes, over time, if left, it will degrade the coating a bit. Those ferrous particles that cause rail dust spots essentially degrade and break through the coating. I have a friend, Model Y, who is white and showing signs of that, and I coated it last year. He runs it as a daily; it's winter here, and he only does touchless washes. I have no doubt a nice spring wash and decon will bring back 90% but I'll have re-top it with GYEON's CanCoat EVO to help account for those areas that have degraded due to this exposure.

In the end, to keep it short, work back with the installer to simply make it right. As a detailer, I would 100% do it when this comes up. I have no problem doing so. It's very quick and won't need the involvement of a polisher in most cases. For you, I would take that and live with it day forward for the next 1-2 years, and when you have it re-done, simply understand the above and perhaps just keep it more clean more often and skip any "polish" with Essence Plus. Again, YMMV, but I'm not a fan of that product.
 
TTQ B4U said:
Not necessarily for this instance, but I think it's a mistake when detailers and manufacturers use primarily years to describe longevity. Miles matter more than years as coatings tend to wear down from abrasion as well as exposure to the elements. I also don't buy into them lasting more than 2-3 years. I market no more than 3 years or 36k when I work with people on my offerings. There are lots of variables involved, so i won't digress more here.

I'm also NOT a fan AT ALL of CarPro Essence Plus. I've used it and tested it and feel it's complete garbage. Any use of a polisher over a coating, even with that product, isn't going to yield a longer life. Even when applied by hand, that product never produced anywhere near acceptable results for me. Again, my opinion and experience with it, having tested it on my own vehicle back in the day. If they used that within their process once or twice per year on yours, then I'm not at all surprised as your results.
Click to expand...

I’ve never used Essence but it doesn’t jive right with me either. If it’s abrasive enough to remove even light scratching, it’s abrasive enough to remove some of the coating. It sounds like a light polish that leaves behind a ceramic sealant which really makes it no more than a ceramic AIO.

I’m curious as to the owner’s maintenance routine and what products are being used. I know that he said he only hand washes it but there are a thousand different ways to wash by hand and most of them aren’t desirable. I ask all of my customers to come back after two weeks to inspect the coating and we’ll wash it together. I’ll show how to do a proper wash and show exactly what products should be used to maintain the coating and send customers with a “gift” basket to get them started. I think a lot of coating installers need to do a better job of how to maintain a coating.
 
TBrio, I was looking at some previous threads where you have stated you are in the Seattle area; we have some members in that area who could perhaps help you get more comfortable or improve the efficiency of your wash techniques, but you are also local to the Griot's Garage headquarters in Tacoma.

A lot of members use their products, and they have events at their facilities: Events Calendar

The "Caffeine & Gasoline" may be a good way to talk to other people who have the same goals. They also have a "free car care school": Caffeine & Gasoline(R)

Although it's a lot easier to learn things online than it was 20 years ago when there were no videos and barely any pictures, sometimes in-person learning can be very helpful. Sometimes a few tips and tricks can get you a better, faster (wash) result, which in turn makes it more enjoyable and something you want to do more often.

Griot's Garage products are available here in the Autogeek store.
 
TTQ B4U said:
Not necessarily for this instance, but I think it's a mistake when detailers and manufacturers use primarily years to describe longevity. Miles matter more than years as coatings tend to wear down from abrasion as well as exposure to the elements.
Click to expand...

I've found exposure to the environment really had a bigger effect on coating life than miles driven. I coat both my car and the wife's. She drives nearly 30K miles a year and I drive around 9K miles. However, both of our cars are exposed to the elements about the the same amount of time overall; mine sits in parking lots at work or at the airport while her's is in constant motion. In both cases the coating will last roughly three years despite a vast difference in mileage driven.

I also don't buy into them lasting more than 2-3 years.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I've seen CQUK go longer than 3 years, but at that point the water behavior isn't consistant across the whole vehicle. Horizontal surfaces like the roof and hood start to degrade at that point and water sheeting starts to slow dramatically, even if the beading is pretty good. Also, three years is a long time for the life of a daily driver. At that point the overall appearance of the vehicle starts to dull simply from wear on the coating, occasional randoms stratches and minor swirling that happens no matter how careful we might be.
 
Desertnate said:
I've found exposure to the environment really had a bigger effect on coating life than miles driven. I coat both my car and the wife's. She drives nearly 30K miles a year and I drive around 9K miles. However, both of our cars are exposed to the elements about the the same amount of time overall; mine sits in parking lots at work or at the airport while her's is in constant motion. In both cases the coating will last roughly three years despite a vast difference in mileage driven.



Totally agree. I've seen CQUK go longer than 3 years, but at that point the water behavior isn't consistent across the whole vehicle. Horizontal surfaces like the roof and hood start to degrade at that point and water sheeting starts to slow dramatically, even if the beading is pretty good. Also, three years is a long time for the life of a daily driver. At that point the overall appearance of the vehicle starts to dull simply from wear on the coating, occasional randoms stratches and minor swirling that happens no matter how careful we might be.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of that difference could be somewhat climate related as well. While here in the NE (or maybe it has to do with the strengths/weaknesses of individual coatings) I found that leaving cars sitting outside in the elements 24/7, 365 days a year had little effect on overall coating longevity/performance...it was the miles driven that killed overall effectiveness. I used to correspond frequently with a coating junkie who lived in Phoenix and he noted somewhat of the opposite effect...exposure when stationary seemed to diminish his performance more than a vehicle that was driven more miles but under cover each day/night. It corresponded to where the coating bought the farm as well. Was always vertical panels for me, horizontal for them.

The ultimate YMMV scenario!
 
This is a prime example of why I never promise a life span to anybody who comes in for a coating.. anything that lasts more than two years on a car is truly phenomenal.

If I coated your vehicle in 2020 and you’re reaching out disappointed in its longevity then I dropped the ball communicating and setting expectations, whether daily driven or not.


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