ceramic coatings vs Zaino

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danix

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Not starting a religious war, but here's the story.
I've been detailing my cars for years with the firm belief that Zaino is the best stuff out there. A lot of work, but worth it.
Saw an ad recently for a used Tesla where it mentioned Opticoat, and that it had just been "refreshed". Started looking into it. Ceramic coatings, who knew. People seem happy with them.

So, I now know there is Opticoat, Cquartz in various flavors, and other similar products.
Got some estimates and doing my new Audi Q7 is quoted as $1399 to $2699 depending on the detailer and the product (100 mile radius of providers I sampled).

I'm sure a real pro will do a better job, and there will be a warranty. But here are my simple questions:
  • I know how to wash, clay bar, and much more. Is there any reason I shouldn't attempt this myself with one of the aftermarket products available such as on AG, for under $100?
  • If I do that, how often does the product need to be "refreshed"? Especially compared with a commercial application, which may or may not be the same product.

If you told me that this is difficult to apply, and a detailer needs to spend 6-8 hours and would charge $695-800, I would just have it done. But at the prices I was quoted my head is reeling...
 
Welcome to the forum first of all!

I'm just a backyard detailer and don't own a building with overhead, employee's, rent, etc but the high end of that seems pretty high IMO, LOL. I'm sure that these prices include full correction but I wonder what else because the price doubles on the high end. Maybe it would help if you stated where you live but even then, I don't get the prices. I know a place here in Chicago, can't remember the name, does PPF and does paint correction before the install and then ceramic coating after the install and the price was like $4000 on a Corvette but I believe that also included doing the interior and applying coating there as well, also wheels off and coating of the wheels, barrels and all.

 
Oh yeah, one more thing, since your Q7 is brand new have you considered doing this yourself, its actually pretty straight forward and would save you quite a bit of money. I mean you'd have to buy some products up front like iron remover, paint prep, polish and ofcoarse the coating itself. Do you have a random orbital machine?
 
I live in the SF Bay Area where the prices are probably the highest in the US besides Manhattan. Yes, I've definitely considered doing it myself, that's why I'm here :)
 
danix said:
I live in the SF Bay Area where the prices are probably the highest in the US besides Manhattan. Yes, I've definitely considered doing it myself, that's why I'm here :)
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Well that explains that

I would go for it yourself and there's enough people online and certainly in your backyard that I'm willing to bet who would come over and help you, this is a great community here

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
 
As a former Zaino head will say yes make the jump to coatings, I did and will never look back.

Really is not that difficult to do yourself, prep is the key. Do plenty research, checkout some YouTube videos, read some reviews and you should be good to go. I used Optimum for the first go round, very easy to apply. Most will give the nod to McKee's when it comes to ease of use but everyone is different. One thing I would encourage is plenty of light to catch all the high spots.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
 
Temp is VERY IMPORTANT when applying and curing of the coating. It needs to be at least 70 degrees and kept out of the environment for 24 hrs (in most cases) after install.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
 
I will be doing an entirely different coating next year, mainly because of how these "spots" reappeared when it got cool right after Labor Day and then went away when it warmed up. I can only imagine what's going to happen when fall gets here and we creep closer to the sh!ty season between fall and spring.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
 
Zaino? They still make that stuff or people actually still use that? I fell in the trap over a decade aga as well, until competitors came out with much better products. I would believe any coating today would blow away Zaino. I do like their tire shine and leather products. They also have yet to come up with anything innovative in the past decade. RIP Zaino.
 
danix said:
I live in the SF Bay Area where the prices are probably the highest in the US besides Manhattan. Yes, I've definitely considered doing it myself, that's why I'm here :)
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I'm in San Mateo County where there are more multi-billionaires (VCs, dot-com entrepeneurs, real estate developers, et. al.) per square inch than anywhere else in the world. I don't think labor costs and overhead can get anymore expensive than it is here. You probably would be better off trying to learn exactly how to do it and then do it yourself.
 
MikeC78 said:
Zaino? They still make that stuff or people actually still use that? I fell in the trap over a decade aga as well, until competitors came out with much better products. I would believe any coating today would blow away Zaino. I do like their tire shine and leather products. They also have yet to come up with anything innovative in the past decade. RIP Zaino.
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^^ this. talk about bringing back memories from the 90's.
 
danix said:
I'm sure a real pro will do a better
job, and there will be a warranty.
Click to expand...
So many of these Coating warranties
require jumping through a lot hoops:
Ask some of those guys that gave you
estimates just exactly what they entail.
{Expect to be jolted again!}

danix said:
But here are my simple questions:
  • I know how to wash, clay bar, and
    much more. Is there any reason I
    shouldn't attempt this myself with one
    of the aftermarket products available
    such as on AG, for under $100?
  • If I do that, how often does the
    product need to be "refreshed"?
    Especially compared with a commercial
    application, which may or may not be
    the same product.
Click to expand...
I say: Do it yourself.

I'll suggest that you start off with:
Paint Coating, nano paint sealant, ceramic paint coating, nano paint coating
one of the most user friendly Coatings
currently on the market.

Note:
For expert advice on "all-things-McKee 37"...
contact Nick (McKee's 37 Product Support):

https://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/private.php?do=newpm&u=31637


Bob
 
Klasse Act said:
I will be doing an entirely different coating next year, mainly because of how these "spots" reappeared when it got cool right after Labor Day and then went away when it warmed up. I can only imagine what's going to happen when fall gets here and we creep closer to the sh!ty season between fall and spring.

Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Which product did that? Wolfgang?
 
danix said:
snip...Is there any reason I shouldn't attempt this myself with one of the aftermarket products available such as on AG, for under $100?
Click to expand...

No, not at all. Go for it!

Like Klasse Act and many others on this forum, I'm a shade-tree detailer who only maintains his personal fleet and a couple family members for the simple joys of making a car look better. Correcting and coating a car provides a great deal of satisfaction and connects you to your car in a way second only to wrenching on it yourself. The beauty of the detailing industry these days is you don't have to go nuts and spend a huge amount of money. Investing in a good DA polisher and pads will be your biggest investment.

I say get a polisher, some pads, a few basic products, and then go for it yourself. As for the coatings, I'd recommend starting with McKee's 37 due to it being low cost and incredibly easy to use. After you get your technique down and comfortable with the application process, the variety of coatings is almost endless.
 
Coatings can be good. You could also consider another sealant that is better than Zaino.

Not trying to get you twisted around the axle with different opinions, but coatings add some challenges as well:

  • They can be finicky to apply: This one comes up a lot and is really not that big of a deal. Watch a video on application and you should be fine.

  • They need time to cure out of the elements: Rain or dew on a car can keep them from curing. Most of them want dry, 70 degree+ temps for at least 24 hours. Too much water after this time can cause issues as well. Polish Angel does better, Cquartz UK is more tolerant of low temps.

  • They get contaminated with road grime and stop beading water. Claying will bring them back but in my case introduced some marring/scratches. CarPro has a polish designed to go over a coating and hide scratches (Essence Plus), so this can be mitigated with some effort.

  • Almost all the coatings I've tried get water spots when the cars is parked outside.These can be hard to remove without removing some of the coating.

  • Coatings generally have to be polished off. Not a huge deal, but consider that you're committed to polishing your car in a year or two to remove it.
I'm on the fence about coatings for a daily driver. I love watching water sheet off a coating for a year or more but don't like the issues. As custmsprty wrote, Polish Angel eliminates some of these problems. I've also found it to be less durable and to be more like a sealant.

I have one coated car, one partialy coated, and one uncoated. After a year I'm leaning toward not coating my outside cars. My fully coated car is a garaged, parked indoors at work, and not driven Nov-Feb. Coating is great on this car. My partially coated car sits outside 24x7 and is driven in rain 8 months of the year. On that one a sealant is easier to maintain.

Apologies for the dissertation. I was where you are a year ago and wanted to share my experience.
 
Late to this party but I'll toss in another vote for "try it yourself". I am curious as to what "much more" means in addition to "wash, clay and much more". If you have some experience machining your paint to remove imperfections you are much better off with any LSP and especially coatings. Even if you lack the experience to cut and buff to level and flatten paint you can at least clean it thoroughly after a wash, iron decon and clay with a good paint cleaner...essential to any LSP but more important for coatings. It's easier than you think. Just takes some time to do it right.

I was also a (Z product user for years and way before Autogeek) and way back when dinosaur fossils were still fresh. I will say it helped me cement the concept of VERY THIN APPLICATION LAYERS! That experience helped me immensely with almost every single LSP I've tried since. It was good enough for me at the time but there have been way too many progressive LSP developments since.

I would suggest you try a coating...any coating from AG...and see for yourself.

Oh, and welcome to the best damn exchange of detailing on the planet. If you find yourself in a pickle with anything, log on and ask. We are ALL your friends here!
 
Desertnate said:
No, not at all. Go for it!

Investing in a good DA polisher and pads will be your biggest investment.

I say get a polisher, some pads, a few basic products, and then go for it yourself. As for the coatings, I'd recommend starting with McKee's 37 due to it being low cost and incredibly easy to use. After you get your technique down and comfortable with the application process, the variety of coatings is almost endless.
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So, a couple of questions. I'm still using my old Porter Cable (7xxx something) which has done double duty around the house as well, so perhaps it's time to upgrade.
What's the current recommended tool for the job? And what pads do you like?

As far as coatings, wow, lots of choices, far more than I expected. Only problem is, the pros are claiming this stuff is semi-permanent, so if I apply something then hate it, I'm stuck with it?

Here's what one shop says when I asked to explain how $70 worth of product becomes a $1400 job even with hours of detailing:
Our ceramic coating will outperform any wax out on the market from gloss to durability. The major contributing factor is it's chemical resistance and the semi permanent bond onto the paint itself. Wax just stays on top and can be easily washed off with a few drops of Dawn soap. If i put 5 coats of Zaino right now and wash it wish a heavy soap, it will strip it completely clean. For our ceramic coatings, it will repel the soap and will not effect it's bonded properties to the paint. For us, we charge $150 for a wash and wax that lasts an average of 3-4 months = $600/year. Over a period of 5-7 years it will an average of $3,000 - $4,200. All while the coating will cost $1,400 for the same durability.
On average it will take 2-3 people to fully polish your vehicle to a show room shine prior to applying any ceramic coating to ensure the highest level of gloss and bonding is achieved. The major part if our dedication the properly prepping your vehicle for the coating to bond properly ensuring the highest gloss and durability to be achieved, not just he cost of the bottle of coating itself. The major cost is the man power needed.
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